Anything wrong with...<pulling from side of tower>

[buckbuck]

pulling surfer from the side of the tower. @haknslash recently posted pictures of a surf boat that had pull points mounted to the side corners of the tower. As we know it is pretty easy to blow the board from under a surfer when starting out. You have to dance the boat around to keep them off center. Seems to me that starting from the side would really help the newbee's. Anyone see a concern in this?

 

[2kwik4u]

I don't see a concern with pulling from the side so long as the pull is more towards the rear than the side. Keep it less than say 30deg off center and you should be fine.

I don't quite understand why you're "dancing the boat around" to keep them off center? Perhaps it's a surfing behind a jetboat thing that I don't understand, but surfing behind a standard V-Drive, or inboard the boat takes off straight, and the rider holds the board to the side needed. Even when riding my skate behind the 190, I keep myself and the board to one side to stay out of the jet wash. I feel this is a pretty elementary skill that should be ironed out early anyway. The people I've taught to ride the skate all get this very quickly as it's the same skillset that "steers" the board. Can you elaborate on why you're moving the boat around?

 

[buckbuck]

We often have new surfers on board. They don't have the experience to get their feet on the board while keeping themselves off center. This while I am giving them a little tension to help plant themselves. Thus setting the rope on the corner of the tower may resolve some of their difficulties.

 

[haknslash]

When I was looking at the boat he told me its soooo much easier to pull up new riders off the the side. So much that he says on his own boat he will still use the center upper tow point but he wraps the rope off to the side of the tower and it works just the same. I looked closely at the side tow points and pulled on them and they were very sturdy and didn't budge. I love the aspect of being able to use them and may steal his wrapping the rope off the the side trick next time I have newbies on the boat.

The reason why it helps them is when they start off to the side the boat can also do a slight turn to their side which helps them pop right up and not have to go over a wall of turbulent white water or a massive wave if they waited to long to try and come over "the hump" if you will. The rider can start in clean water every single time and not have to worry about sliding off the board when coming over the hump or down into the transition of the wave.

 

[MidnightRider]

We have tried this with really young surfers (As young as 6). We have used a tube quick connect to attach rope which works nicely if you want to do it. We also have had an adult sit on the back corner of the swim deck and just hold the rope too - that actually has worked better for the really young ones for us. For older new surfers we use the main tower tie point but I’ll often start them out with turning the boat towards surf side to help them stay off center out of the jet wash as they come up.

https://www.amazon.com/Airhead-AHKC-1-AIRHEAD-KWIK-CONNECT/dp/B000OF5LWS/ref=mp_s_a_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1546785201&sr=8-7&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=tube+tow+quick+connect&dpPl=1&dpID=41XZZcIIrvL&ref=plSrch

 

[haknslash]

Yes I meant to add that I've seen videos of people holding the rope out to the rear corner/side for little kids and it helps steer them for easier starts and to guide them into the wave where they can feel the push.

 

[swatski]

pulling surfer from the side of the tower. @haknslash recently posted pictures of a surf boat that had pull points mounted to the side corners of the tower. As we know it is pretty easy to blow the board from under a surfer when starting out. You have to dance the boat around to keep them off center. Seems to me that starting from the side would really help the newbee's. Anyone see a concern in this?

HECK YEAH!!!!
When @haknslash posted that I re-watched the clip about 5 times, thinking - why did I not think of it????
DUH.

Apart from giving the beginners and our young ones the extra comfort (which some of them need... not) it will help preserve my bimini top!!! That short rope rubs the edge of the bimini mercilessly, even with a sleeve we use it is shredding it slowly.
Win-win?

--

 

[haknslash]

Every video or thread I've read on them whether its a dealer or personal owner, they all say it really helps new riders learn to surf faster because they're out in clean water and don't have to deal with coming "down the wave" or in the turbulent wash. Once they learn the "getting up on a board" basics and balance skill then it's much easier for them to transition to normal center tow high point and they can deal with coming down the face of the wave much better without the board flying out from them or going face first over the board lol. There are only a few of the wake boats MFG's offering them and I think it's a great way to help new riders get upp easier which also makes for a better experience for everyone aboard the boat by not having to (hopefully) pull around to pick them up as often.

The top of the wave is no place to hang out (sorry Nicole )...

 

[Mainah]

What an awesome idea.

 

[MidnightRider]

I know wake9.com used sell a tow point with a tower clamp for clamping to the side of your tower for surfing but I haven’t been able to find anything - I think they got out of selling any product.

 

[swatski]

I know wake9.com used sell a tow point with a tower clamp for clamping to the side of your tower for surfing but I haven’t been able to find anything - I think they got out of selling any product.

I would think that just looping the rope around the side/corner of the tower will do, no?
Just not sure if I would go inside or outside of the bimini supports. Maybe even below?

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[haknslash]

I would think that just looping the rope around the side/corner of the tower will do, no?
Just not sure if I would go inside or outside of the bimini supports. Maybe even below?

--

That's all the salesman does on his own boat when he explained it to me yesterday and he said it works fine. I would make it come out just below the rear bimini strut.

 

[haknslash]

I know wake9.com used sell a tow point with a tower clamp for clamping to the side of your tower for surfing but I haven’t been able to find anything - I think they got out of selling any product.

TBH I'm getting a little concerned with ragboy from Wake9. Last time he logged into wakeworld was at the end of October and the last time he put anything up on his YT was at the beginning of October to discuss the Polar Bear Wake Event they host each year. Since then he has been absent on any forums I normally see him post in and his YT channel has had any updates in 3 months and no results from their annual Polar Bear event. I hope the big guy and his family are ok!

Edit- I see he was active or at least logged into the Moomba forum yesterday so that's great to see! I was getting a little worried lol. Maybe he's just tired of wakeworld, which TBH I don't blame him as I don't frequent that place much these days either. It's kind of a shell of its former self from what I gather. I'm hoping he will put up the Polar Bear video soon as it's always nice to see each year how the new boats performed. If I lived on the west coast I would make it a point to go to that event each year just so I could get surf time behind boats I'll never be able to afford lol!

 

[MidnightRider]

I would think that just looping the rope around the side/corner of the tower will do, no?
Just not sure if I would go inside or outside of the bimini supports. Maybe even below?

--

Yeah for sure - and as I mentioned that Airhead Tube Kwik-Connect I linked in the previous post works great as well. But you know if someone was selling a beautiful billet aluminum tow point that clamps to your tower there would be a sudden hole in your pocket. No?

 

[2kwik4u]

Well, I learned something new today. I would have never expected that coming up "on center" was an issue, or even if it wasn't an issue so to speak, that there was another way to go about it. I've always drug the skier/boarder at slow (2mph maybe) speed slightly to get the board to stick to thier feet, then throttle up when they are ready. The drag through the water gets them used to "steering" before having to stand on the board.

With all that said, I've always taught people on traditional length wakeboard (60ft-ish) ropes, and it's always been a wakeboard or wakeskate. I've never taught anyone to surf. The times that I have surfed myself I had enough experience on other boards (wakeboard, wakeskate, ocean based surfboard) that getting started and standing on the thing were the least of my worries. I popped up first try, and had a bigger issue with dropping the rope than I did with navigating how to stand/steer/etc. I think that's mostly based on not being on a big enough wave for my 230lb self.

Here's my first time attempting to surf. This was behind an Axis A24 that was setup for someone else. I was using his speed/wedge/ballast settings and he's a bit lighter than I was. I think this was maybe my 6th or 7th pull. Watching this a few times, I can see how starting from the side would have helped me ease into the wave instead of drop down it from the top.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/zabve9VE9BT7DKTi7

What are the effect of learning once you're up and going from the side. I suppose once the new rider gets the hang of navigation, then you go back to the top center tow point to get them used to the "drop in"?

 

[MidnightRider]

What are the effect of learning once you're up and going from the side. I suppose once the new rider gets the hang of navigation, then you go back to the top center tow point to get them used to the "drop in"?

Yeah, like I said I've only found it necessary with the really young ones which now we just sit on the back and hold/guide the rope - once they get the hang of it, the transition to steering themselves clear coming out usually catches on pretty quickly. And again with adult newbies I've found that a turn toward surf side on coming out has always been adequate to help keep them out of the wash in my experience.
But then again, if its just as easy, it become a question of "why not" attach it to the side, makes more sense for surfing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ which why we are seeing side tow points popping up as standard on some new dedicated wake boat towers I guess.

 

[2kwik4u]

Yeah, like I said I've only found it necessary with the really young ones which now we just sit on the back and hold/guide the rope - once they get the hang of it, the transition to steering themselves clear coming out usually catches on pretty quickly. And again with adult newbies I've found that a turn toward surf side on coming out has always been adequate to help keep them out of the wash in my experience.
But then again, if its just as easy, it become a question of "why not" attach it to the side, makes more sense for surfing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ which why we are seeing side tow points popping up as standard on some new dedicated wake boat towers I guess.

That all makes 100% sense.

How bad is the jet wash that close in to the boat as compared to a traditional wake boat? I know with longer ropes it just leads to really "bumpy" water in the center of the wake, but overall isn't terrible. Was definitely something to get used to though coming from a traditional I/O setup.

 

[MidnightRider]

Just spit balling here but I think the maybe the difference coming out is probably that there is much more force at the top of the water with Jets where as more of the force on a v-drive is under you. Which is why the water tends to be so frothy and soft in the center with jets. But in general, to me anyway, the water behind a jet just seems more "chaotic" (is the word that comes to me) no mater what you are doing behind it.

 

[RiverRat]

There's a reason the vag/rectum sticker exists. When doing a deep water surf start, you're literally aiming your undercarriage right at the jet(s). I always start off to the side. Attaching the rope to the side of the tower sounds like a good idea.

 

[jcyamaharider]

You can see here:

we always turn the boat to get the surfer out of the jet wash. WAY easier to get up this way. I like the side tow point idea!