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Can you go without Anchor chain

@Ronnie , I can tell you that my first anchor I built was built like that one, and it is WAY too easy to to mess up the fluke alignment, not to mention way more welding and cutting than is necessary. It is MUCH easier to cut the front and rear plate pattern with the flukes on the plates, and bend the flukes to the correct angle on a press. It is also easier to drill and weld the hanging pins in the side plate instead of on the end. And I found the anchor fit better and protected the boat better upside down, not the way that one is. He has no way to close the anchor locker without removing the control arm end off the anchor. That said, he didn't mention the control arm. Without it, it is just a hunk of steel. That control arm makes the anchor function like a box anchor, without it, your just dragging steel and fouling it with chain. I wonder where he got the idea?
 
Where are people storing the small box anchor? Under the front seat?
 
I store mine in the anchor locker. But it is collapsed, and the locker is very well padded. I also removed the ladder because it is just in the way IMO, so getting the anchor out, unfolding, locking, and tossing is about a 15 second process. Same on retrieval, except that I always pull the anchor up to the boat and then lower it down about 10' deep and idle along until it is clean, then I retrieve, collapse, and place into the locker.
 
@Ronnie , I can tell you that my first anchor I built was built like that ....

Thanks for the follow up Mel, I'm sure some of the DYIers on this site will benefit from it but I realized a while back that I couldn't weld to save my life, there is a lot more art to it than many realize.
 
Ronnie, I can't weld either. I just took a Slide Anchor, figured out how it was made, adapted it to fit my boat, and shrunk to fit in a fixed form. I hired all the welding, pressing, plasma cutting, galvanizing, done by subs...I spent what seems like an eternity grinding them smooth and shiny after bending and welding. You can hire it done, but it is cheaper to buy the original. The only reason I built it was to make it fit. Unfortunately, making a box anchor fit assembled and in the hangers in a 240/242 isn't happening without other alterations. I may get to that one day, but for now, 15 seconds works ok for me. I did find my Slide box collapsed on retrieval once...that may be more of a turning point in the decision. But like that guy on the other site found...you can galvanize one anchor for the price of 500 pounds of anchors. That is why I did at least 8 at a time, because it gets expensive to the member if you don't do that many. I tried to keep them in the same price range as the Slide box, but it was impossible...it is just a custom anchor and it costs more to make it. But the guy that can weld on his own can do it cheaper if he cuts all the parts and welds without pressing...but while it may look nice, it is rough compared to what I made. My first anchor looked like his, the rest looked like art. But like my welder once told me..."it's just an anchor, stop taking all that time with them"! He was right I am sure, but I liked them smooth and shiny!
 
For what they cost I probably would not have bought one if it didn't come with the boat. Now that I have one I realize its worth the cost, for the galvanized model anyway. There is a stainless steel one for around $350 a my local boat store, it's been there for years, just too expensive I assume. I am thinking about getting a baby box for the stern but just haven't gotten around to spending the $125 my local master craft dealer is asking for it, yet.

I have my box anchor on a boat buddy and store it unfolded under one of the bow seats or the floor locker on a defated tube. Access is good and no set up or breakdown is necessary. I've found the anchor locker to be a good place to keep the fenders and lines, even with the bow ladder installed, now that I've plugged the drain. I don't miss the space regardless of where the anchor is stored, just consider a recurring cost of ownership in my opinion.
 
I had a similar situation to the OP with my box last weekend. I only had about a 2:1 scope (my error, I thought I had more). The box stuck, but as the wind picked up it apparently was getting pulled up and resetting itself, gradually walking my boat closer to shore. But the line was taught the whole time, so I know it didn't come all loose.

We saw what was happening, ran out to the boat, repositioned and put the scope to 3:1 or 4:1 (when I figured out how short the scope was originally). Then it held fast.
 
For what they cost I probably would not have bought one if it didn't come with the boat. Now that I have one I realize its worth the cost, for the galvanized model anyway. There is a stainless steel one for around $350 a my local boat store, it's been there for years, just too expensive I assume. I am thinking about getting a baby box for the stern but just haven't gotten around to spending the $125 my local master craft dealer is asking for it, yet.

I have my box anchor on a boat buddy and store it unfolded under one of the bow seats or the floor locker on a defated tube. Access is good and no set up or breakdown is necessary. I've found the anchor locker to be a good place to keep the fenders and lines, even with the bow ladder installed, now that I've plugged the drain. I don't miss the space regardless of where the anchor is stored, just consider a recurring cost of ownership in my opinion.

A baby box on the stern is really only good for deeper depth. I don't really see a value in a shore baby box over anything else. Baby box doesn't dig as deep as a spike anchor and I would expect drift in deeper waters. For any type of temporary anchoring, that would be great but for something over night on a shallow anchor I would target a spike. Box anchors don't bury, they wedge themselves. Shallow box anchors tend to pull up unless they have weight on the shank (chain or higher scope). They set again quickly which is awesome, but for a stern to shore anchor, I wouldn't trust it just because of the angle.

That said, if someone else has tried it, I would love to hear feedback on it. In my head I imagine the shore baby box popping up quickly but the reality may be different.
 
I use a shore spike to anchor the stern when I'm close to shore and only planned on using the baby box when I'm in deeper water. One of the factors preventing me from buying a baby box is that there have only been a hand full of times I've needed it in the part few years so its hard to justify such a purchase.

Back on track I don't use any chain on my box anchor and haven't had any issues with it holding. I don't consistently count how much scope I have either, it's pretty much increase the scope if the boat is drifting even though the box anchor is deployed.
 
I use a shore spike to anchor the stern when I'm close to shore and only planned on using the baby box when I'm in deeper water. One of the factors preventing me from buying a baby box is that there have only been a hand full of times I've needed it in the part few years so its hard to justify such a purchase.

Back on track I don't use any chain on my box anchor and haven't had any issues with it holding. I don't consistently count how much scope I have either, it's pretty much increase the scope if the boat is drifting even though the box anchor is deployed.

You have the right idea :-). I have a roll of reflective tape that I use every 10' so I can count scope. I have the roll of it, but I haven't put it into my rode yet :P. I run it out until it feels right. Each of my rode is double fisherman's knot tied to each other at 100' increments. If i am 30' I usually run out 90' of line (just before the first knot) on my LBA. Take my Manson Supreme and I'm running out 200' of rode (of course I only do this if I expect 60mph winds).

Generally speaking, people have either 50' or 100' of rode on their anchor line and they assume that's good. With box anchors under 30' depth it is. Danforth it's totally not (even with chain on the rode). Regardless with a box, danforth, plow (MS) or whatever else anchor... unless if it's not bolted to bedrock, expect some movement no matter what your anchoring situation is.
 
Anchoring. The never-ending topic. I don't think this will ever be resolved. It's an art more than a science.

Generally you can select from about 50 different anchor types and most will hold well in soft sandy bottoms where there is some depth to the sand so the anchor can get a good bite initially and sink in under tension. Scope and chain are a big help here, but scope is the most important. Feel blessed if you boat in this kind of a bottom. Mud is similar but not quite as firm in many cases. It depends. Watching videos of anchors setting in sand isn't a very good way to evaluate an anchor. Most of us could design any number of shapes that will work well in sand.

Rocks are the biggest challenge. Some shell bottoms behave a lot like small rock bottoms too. Very small rocks in a dirt base can create a hard surface in which many anchors will have a difficult time getting a bite. They'll just skip along the surface of the bottom. This is a great type of bottom for a Box, I'm not sure how well my Richter would do here. A fluke anchor may or may not get a bite here depending on the specific design. A plough likely will be a good bet here, but not a traditional plough. The Rocna style plough is your best bet.

Larger rocks, say 5 to 10" for our size boats, that are loose will challenge any anchor.

Large rounded boulders are possibly the type where a large fluke can get in between the rocks in cracks and can set and hold but might not hold if the wind shifts and the boat pulls the anchor out. Many other anchors will have quite a difficult time with this type of bottom. Fortunately this type of bottom is rare.

But you can read and have experience with all kinds of anchors and the conversation will never end. There is no one anchor that will work in all types of bottoms under average weather conditions for all small boats.

- Fluke anchors - Danforth style (there is a wide variety). Great in mud, soft clay, or soft sandy bottoms. Good for larger and heavier boats. Chain is pretty much a must. Retrieving a fluke anchor can be difficult; if it digs in well there is a lot of surface to lift and break free. It may require doing 360's around the anchor to get it to brake loose. Like the box it always seems to lay on the bottom in a good position for it's flukes to dig in. It won't stay on it's side. The fluke design is challenged in hard bottoms or grassy bottoms. There just isn't enough down force on the tips of the flukes and it will dance across the surface. The fluke may slide along on grassy bottoms where the grass acts like a lubricant and the flukes will never even tough the actual bottom. Flukes can grab on one fluke and turn a bit on it's side. This will allow it to dig in well but it can be pulled out easily and may then dance along the bottom. They can be bent as there is a large flat surface that is usually not strengthened.

- Plough anchors. Great in mud, clay or sandy bottoms. Good for large or smaller boats like our Yamaha set. Chain is a must. Many older plough anchors won't set easily or at all, especially if the bottom is hard.

- Newer plough anchors (Rocna, Manson Supreme) simply have a better design than the many other plough anchors out there. They add a component that helps rotate the blade into the correct position. A Rocna may be a good choice for our boats. Retrieving them is the biggest weakness.

- Box anchors. Good in many conditions but I doubt it would do well in large rocky bottoms. Chain isn't necessary but it can't hurt.

- Richter anchors. Good in many conditions like the Box. Chain isn't necessary but it can't hurt.

- Mushroom anchors. Some say they are good in mud. I have had a couple but never got them to hold at all. I have a small one on the shelf in the garage now.

- Grapnel anchors (some folding models. Good in many conditions but can be a bitch to retrieve. Most are light weight so often can't get a bite on hard bottoms.

The box has some advantages. It's highly unlikely for the box to get into a position (like the fluke) where the flukes aren't in a digging-in position. If it flips over there is another set of 4 flukes on the other side. Four is better than one which you'd find on a plough, better than two on a Danforth fluke design. One disadvantage of the box is the two horizontal bars that hold the flukes also have a tendency to stop the anchor from continuing to dig in so it won't often bury itself for maximum hold. I don't have a box but I'll bet it is perhaps the best overall anchor for our boats.

The Richter I have always has two tines touching the bottom. As soon as the anchor has dug in a bit a third tine will come in contact with the bottom. This anchor makes good use of the weight right over the tines to exert pressure downward. The tines are narrow so they can dig in well but they don't offer much resistance so the anchor can be pulled out of sand if there isn't enough scope. So far my Richter has held well every time I've used it. It is heavy but easy to handle otherwise. Nothing to disassemble.

I think it would be interesting to own a Rocna anchor. Does anybody have one? They do tend to be expensive. I suspect this could be the best overall anchor that we don't hear much about.
 
Thanks for the info Mel and Ronnie! Great summary @jdonalds
 
As always John, @jdonalds , very thorough and it shows years of experience. One thing I might add, is that at least with a box anchor, using chain "can" hurt, and it will defeat the way a box anchor works. That steel arm is not only the chain weight for the anchor, it is a control arm for how the anchor operates. Without that control arm, or with a chain on the control arm, the anchor can't reset if it is to be turned due to a wind shift. The control arm only moves a total of 30 degrees either side of the tow point when lifted backwards, or between the flukes. A chain, well, it can go anywhere, and wrap into the flukes and foul the anchor. It is that upward movement of the control arm backward between the flukes in a wind shift, that pivots the anchor directly over itself, lifting, and laying down on the opposite flukes, that allows it to reset within one foot of its original position. The biggest issue I have with the box anchor, is that it is advertised to only need 2 to 1 scope, and that is only true in calm conditions. It still needs more scope, depending on boat weight/windage/wind/waves, at times. I agree with Ronnie on his assessment of how to set it. Just drop it in, let the boat drift against it, stop the rode release, and if it is still moving, pay out more rode to increase the scope. One other thing John, an additional benefit of a box anchor, one you pointed out as a negative, is actually a positive in loose sand. That is the box design. That box, as you mentioned, in firm bottom, only lets the flukes dig in the length of the fluke before the box itself is against the bottom, and the flukes are only approximately 5 inches long...but there are 4 of them! That said, in loose sand, that box squirms and moves as the boat swings on the anchor line and buries the box itself into the sand, which magnifies the hold power exponentially. It is indeed a great sand anchor. Loose sand, that is...like you said, there are bottoms that can play games with any anchor. Firm sand, such as sand/clay (sandy loam) mixes are loose enough that more scope helps, but tight enough that only the flukes dig and the box itself never fills with the tighter bottom condition.

@Ronnie , I would consider a different style anchor than the baby box as a stern anchor. It, like its bigger brothers is a great anchor, but it works just like them. So as a stern anchor, it is really outside of its operational design in terms of how a boat will pull on a stern anchor. That pull is going to be lateral more than directly against, and I think maybe it won't be as effective as other anchors might be. I could be wrong on this, but the beauty of a box is the ability to hold in varied conditions with opposite load, and to only be unearthed by shifting winds within the margins listed above. The problem with a stern anchor, is the load is not opposite, it is on the primary anchor as opposite, and the stern anchor is more lateral. Now that said, using an anchor buddy on the primary does put a load on both anchors, so I may be all wet on my considerations. But just wanted to throw it out there in case you hadn't considered it.

While it seems these discussions are more opinion laden and less factual, there is plenty of science in this, but there is also art! I love that you bring that up. Because setting a fluke anchor takes both, setting a richter or a box is less difficult, more often successful with less effort, and not as subject to wind changes uprooting them permanently.
 
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