Carvana for Boats

[HangOutdoors]

Was on a call today with some other CTO's and we were chatting about the different projects our companies are working on, blockers and such. Someone indicated that they built some integrations for apps for a company that will work like Carvana but for boats. He didn't say the name of the company but that they were preparing to launch by the summer.

The model he indicated is that it works just like Carvana where they will deliver your boat to you at your house, or for an extra fee to a boat launch so you could do a Water Trial. Then close and sign the paperwork right there. Additionally they would have one location that will be a test site in Florida, he believes, where you can go pick up your boat. Like a rack warehouse where the boat would be brought down off of storage and put right in the water for testing or onto a trailer if it comes with one, etc.

Of course they also offer purchasing service as well. Also they will offer consignment, where you give them your boat and when it sells they take a cut.

They would also allow you to purchase services such as mechanics inspection, upgrades, etc. From third party providers if you wish through their site which would offer deals and discounts and reviews of each provider.

Basically cutting out full dealerships etc. Not sure how I feel about it. Unsure if it will take off. Would be interesting to see how it works out.

Thoughts?

 

[haknslash]

Hmmm yea I think that’s not gonna fly for some dealerships as you eluded to. Even if you do get in line to have service work done, I imagine you’ll constantly be bumped to lower priority as their legit customers who bought boats from them would take higher priority. I know I would not be happy hearing from my tech “sorry we haven’t touched your boat in weeks, we are backlogged with a few Boatvana walk-in’s”. How would a OEM warranty transfer even work? Those require a dealership to process and transfer upon inspection.

 

[HangOutdoors]

I think it would just deal with used boats though. At least that is the impression I got. As for the a warranty transferring, perhaps that is something that they cut a deal with dealers. Just speculation of course.

 

[haknslash]

The warranty isn’t with the dealers though but rather OEMs. Not talking about those 3rd party dealership “warranties” but rather OEM for the boat manufacturers and engine (if different than Yamaha). I can’t see OEMs cutting out their bread and butter dealership’s for used Carvana/Boatvana clientele. Dealerships are where their sales happen for OEMs and the service dept are what keep the lights on for dealerships. Why would a dealer work on some rando Boatvana customer when the dealer has their own used inventory to sell and attract new / used boat owners?

Boats are a bit more involved than cars IMO on things like this, especially newer used boats that have remaining warranties to transfer. With a used car you can typically take it to any dealer and they’ll happily put you in line and take your money but with boats I think it’s a little more selective about what work their service shop takes in from unknown customers/walk-in’s vs known real customers.

Idk. Interesting to see how it would play out though. I don’t think I’d be down for it if I were shopping and would rather inspect the boat in person prior to a water test. You can’t take everything into account just from pics and vid’s. Just me though.

 

[HangOutdoors]

@haknslash Very valid points. I totally agree.

At the end of the day the consumer will drive it though I think, as goes for a lot of things I see happening in direct sales today that I don't use and I am not a big fan of. If there is enough demand and the reception is good with something like this, perhaps that evolves the boat market. Or it goes away pretty quick.

I am astounded that people buy cars and have them delivered off of Carvana. You see them all the time around here. I have toyed with the idea but have heard some pretty bad stories.

 

[2kwik4u]

How is buying it from Boatvana any different from buying from an individual on the used market? Even with warranty transfers and things like that? I would expect the same level of service from my local dealer (good or bad) if I bought from Boatvana as compared to buying from a dealership 500mi away. It's still a used boat that rolls into the service department as revenue. We often advocate for "casting a wider net" to find the boat we want, at a good price, and driving to get it (or shipping it in), how is this any different because it came out of vending machine instead of off some random lot 5 states away? How would the dealer know if you didn't tell them?

The Ford dealership I bought my '12 Focus from would only offer rental/loaner cars for service work IF you bought from them. The GMC dealership I took my Sierra to would give anyone a loaner car, however if you didn't buy from them, the "premier" customers got first dibs and if they ran out of loaners, sorry about your luck. Nissan dealer doesn't do loaners. period. So, I think, based on those experiences with cars, that any dealership can write whatever rules they like about servicing used boats. Ultimately, with my rose colored glasses, I feel strongly that most shops work on a FIFO plan, and the place of purchase isn't even part of the equation. You get in line when you show up, and don't get bumped until you're fixed. I know it's more complex than that (waiting for parts and don't want techs sitting on their hands), but I really do think the FIFO system is how most service centers operate. I've never had a dealership bump me out of line because of where I bought, I might not get some "fringe" benefits, but never been bumped down the list. If I did, I can promise that would be the last time I ever visited the place, my money spends just as well as the next guys I don't care how much we might have given you in the past, this is a separate transaction.

I too am astounded that people buy sight unseen. I've done two vehicles that way, and never will again. My Trailblazer SS and my current Audi Q7. They're both a basket case of previous owner screw ups. I bought both of them essentially sight unseen and had all the paperwork complete before I sat in them. I'll never do it again. I've had the best luck with doing a thorough inspection myself, THEN working the deal. I'll never buy another vehicle used without sitting in it, driving it around the block a few times, and crawling up/over/around/in all the pieces and parts of it. Heck, the Audi had over 300 pictures online of it before I purchased. I still missed the significant interior damage, the rattly seat, and the corn stalks I pulled from the grill when I got it home. A new car is a little different since it shouldn't have any previous owners to have given no craps about it, but even then I'm gonna want a test drive and to have a good look at it before I sign off on the purchase.

 

[AZMark]

Large chain of dealerships went public in the last couple years. Would make sense for someone like that.

 

[haknslash]

I can’t speak for all dealers but at my current dealer if you buy a new boat from them you will get placed above say someone who just strolls in off the street for help who hasn’t spent a dime at the dealership. My old Yamaha dealer probably wouldn’t give two shits. My current dealer actually goes and does things to make you not just another notch on their belt. I’ve had them do it for me and I know I’m not alone on this as it’s actually something they go over when shopping with them. Obviously not all dealers are the same but that is what separates good ones from average or shitty ones I suppose.

Transferring Warranties with a used boat usually comes with someone footing the bill at a certified dealership. Check the fine print on your Yamaha YES or standard warranty for example. I had to go through this song and dance when I listed my Yamaha for sale. You’ll see in order to transfer warranty from one party to another involves a certified dealership to perform the inspection. This is relatively straight forward on a Yamaha jetboat where the hull and engine are made at the same place by the same OEM. It’s slightly more involved with other boats where the hull is with the boat OEM but the engine and driveline is with a different parts OEM. There are multiple warranties with a non-Yamaha boat is what I’m getting at.

I’m probably over thinking things a bit and I suppose it could work but I know one thing… a $150k boat is not the same as buying a $20k or $40k commuter car sight unseen off Carvana. Not my cup of tea to do business like that on such an expensive toy that you’ll use partially throughout the year. If I’m shopping I’m going to be crawling all over and inside the boat well before a water test is even considered. Something you can’t really get from “virtual dealerships”.

 

[HangOutdoors]

I’m probably over thinking things a bit and I suppose it could work but I know one thing… a $150k boat is not the same as buying a $20k or $40k commuter car sight unseen off Carvana. Not my cup of tea to do business like that on such an expensive toy that you’ll use partially throughout the year. If I’m shopping I’m going to be crawling all over and inside the boat well before a water test is even considered. Something you can’t really get from “virtual dealerships”.

That is a great observation. I see more of the main stream boats from canoe's up to $100k boats or a bit more being a good zone. I would assume, and I am just purely guessing, that without a good deal of volume it is not a sustainable business model.

 

[Bluewater272]

I feel like this is already Marine Max, with the exception of having your boat forklifted down to you (which is a Carvana gimmick at only a couple locations). Buying a boat is an inherently inconvenient process, I don't think this concept has teeth. I'm certainly not going to pay a premium price for a used boat just because there's an app (and you would have to charge more without all the other dealership revenue streams).

 

[HangOutdoors]

@seanmclean I agree with you. I am old school. I do believe there is a good portion of the populous whom would use things like this. I guess it depends on what time of consumer your are and how you view boat ownership personally.

 

[2kwik4u]

I can’t speak for all dealers but at my current dealer if you buy a new boat from them you will get placed above say someone who just strolls in off the street for help who hasn’t spent a dime at the dealership. My old Yamaha dealer probably wouldn’t give two shits. My current dealer actually goes and does things to make you not just another notch on their belt. I’ve had them do it for me and I know I’m not alone on this as it’s actually something they go over when shopping with them. Obviously not all dealers are the same but that is what separates good ones from average or shitty ones I suppose.

Transferring Warranties with a used boat usually comes with someone footing the bill at a certified dealership. Check the fine print on your Yamaha YES or standard warranty for example. I had to go through this song and dance when I listed my Yamaha for sale. You’ll see in order to transfer warranty from one party to another involves a certified dealership to perform the inspection. This is relatively straight forward on a Yamaha jetboat where the hull and engine are made at the same place by the same OEM. It’s slightly more involved with other boats where the hull is with the boat OEM but the engine and driveline is with a different parts OEM. There are multiple warranties with a non-Yamaha boat is what I’m getting at.

I’m probably over thinking things a bit and I suppose it could work but I know one thing… a $150k boat is not the same as buying a $20k or $40k commuter car sight unseen off Carvana. Not my cup of tea to do business like that on such an expensive toy that you’ll use partially throughout the year. If I’m shopping I’m going to be crawling all over and inside the boat well before a water test is even considered. Something you can’t really get from “virtual dealerships”.

Man.....I would be PISSED if my boat was sitting in a shop waiting on service and someone else rolled up and I got bumped down the waitlist. Like, that's some seriously shady shit IMO, and I wouldn't be returning. You want to give existing customer some other perks like a loaner boat, or free pickup/delivery, sure, that's fine. Jumping line because you're a previous customer is a pretty basic customer service no-no.

I've not transferred warranties on a boat previously, didn't realize it was so involved. I feel like this should be covered under an "inspection fee" that the service department could handle. Would a regular marine survey cover the inspection? Most people buying $100k boats are gonna get one of those anyway right? I know I would after learning my lesson about buying sight unseen.

I do agree that a $150k boat isn't the same as a $40k car. Hell I have heartburn buying $10 socks off Amazon without touching/feeling them first. Anything I intend to spend a lot of money on, or will have a large impact on my life I like to buy in person. Heck, I spent a shad over $1,200 on roof racks this past fall and purposefully bought through the local bike shop. First so I could work through them if there was a problem, and second to support a local business. Turned out to be more hassle than it was worth, but if I'm going to be super picky I want a real person that knows me by name to be picky with. I have a reservation on a $105k Silverado EV currently. I'm not going to sign to buy that thing without a test drive and pre-purchase inspection. If the deposit wasn't refundable I would've waited. Will be the second most expensive thing I've ever purchased if it comes to fruition. No way I'm buying that sight unseen.

 

[AZMark]

If I couldn’t find the boat I want nearby and I was going to buy one sight unseen, I’d rather buy from a big chain (like Carvana or whoever is doing this) that would be more motivated to stand behind their product vs. buying from an individual or a single dealership in another state that I knew nothing about.
Not everyone buying a boat is as handy or knowledgeable about what they are looking at as the people on this site, other than something major like a gouge in the hull or ripped seats they wouldn’t know the difference anyway.
If this is the business model they want to run then they better have very good pics of anything remotely questionable or they would never build any credibility for their brand.

 

[haknslash]

Interesting article I was reading on issues people have been having with Carvana transactions and not receiving their titles in the lawful timeframe so Carvana just issues out temp tags over and over to stretch out this logistical short sight on their end. Imagine this being a boat. You can’t just slap a temp piece of paper on it and not expect to get hassled by the water patrol or LEO’s if they see you on the water routinely.

https://www.news4jax.com/i-team/2021/12/14/i-team-uncovers-state-action-federal-lawsuit-against-carvana/?outputType=amp

 

[Taylorman]

This is an interesting topic and discussion. I’m not sure why so much focus is on the service aspect to this potential business. From the description the services will be prepaid basic services like inspections. There wasn’t any mention of cutting lines or getting priority. The shops are likely selling those basic services at a discount but view that as an investment guaranteed business. Even so, no legit shop is going to prioritize discounted business for repeat non-discounted business. Additionally, the goal is to use the inspection to generate more business that’s not discounted. If that doesn’t happen the shops will stop partnering with “boatvana”. It’s a self correcting problem not worth worrying about, IMHO.

The sales side of the model certainly has merit in theory. Any business model that provides a desired good or service in a more convenient way has merit. It’s also meeting a rapidly growing set of consumers that prefers to buy online, where they shop. With that said, merit and success are not one and the same. The success of this model, IMHO, is heavily dependent on the economy and trust. If “boatvana” is able to establish itself as a trusted source for quality used boats in a more convenient way they’re likely on to something. However, boats, unlike cars, are not a necessity. A moderate economic down cycle might benefit used boat sales as new boats won’t be as affordable. But a significant down cycle or recession could crush this type of business as it does for many luxury items.

If I were viewing this as an investment opportunity I’d likely pass given my personal views of our economic trajectory at the moment. As a consumer, it would interest me if they established the requisite level of trust with things like a return period, pre-inspections with guarantees, etc. So to summarize my $.02 is the model is sound but I question the long-term viability of this particular application.

 

[HangOutdoors]

@hacknslash You make valid points. But approach it from the side of how this can benefit dealers or shops as well. If there is way to position a guaranteed or subscription service where by the a dealer gets a continual guaranteed income stream on reoccuring services as well as maintenance, it allows growth and continuity. Even more so in the northern states where it gets slim in the winter and staff are at times laid off.

For instance, when you order your boat you are asked for your typical boating location or geography and Dealers who are part of the network can offer prepaid services such as 3 years of oil changes and maintenance for $$$$ that can be bought up front etc. Or how about add-ons such as trolling motor, cover, sea dek installation, etc. etc. I have met more boat owners that are unable to or don't want to work on their boats and just want them maintained and/or upgraded. Of course on this forum we swing widely in the other direction.

So as you sit there buying the boat, you start selecting other services you want. After Market Warranty, Maybe a Boat US Membership, throw in a couple wake boards, a trolling motor, prepaid winter storage and maintenance that you could schedule for the next few years. How about throwing in a boating/safety course as a perk, window tinting, add fins which will be shipped or can be put on by a mechanic, etc. All with one bottom line price that is menu style and then you move. That model is very appealing to a lot people. Of course the higher end boat you go to, I see this possibly becoming less interesting for the informed purchaser.

There are many ways that people in the boating industry can benefit from new ventures such as this if it can be successful. From a dealer that I spoke with last year, not mine but a Yamaha dealer, they were doing quite well with maintenance, almost as much as they were making on selling boats.

I am not really one way or the other on the business Idea, I do see some drawbacks. I also see fantastic opportunities in the boating industry, vertically and horizontally if companies like this can, as @Taylorman indicated, gain trust.

 

[2kwik4u]

@hacknslash You make valid points. But approach it from the side of how this can benefit dealers or shops as well. If there is way to position a guaranteed or subscription service where by the a dealer gets a continual guaranteed income stream on reoccuring services as well as maintenance, it allows growth and continuity. Even more so in the northern states where it gets slim in the winter and staff are at times laid off.

This "value add" position is exactly how my local Big-O operates with TireRack. The manager there has told me on multiple occasions to just buy the tires there and have them shipped in. He has no interest in competing on price for me. He knows TireRack is less expensive, and an educated buyer will know exactly what they want and how much they cost. He doesn't want in on that market. He does know though, that TireRack can't mount/balance/rotate/repair those tires. He has shaped his business to cater to those people that need SERVICE, and he does exceptionally well in that arena. I'm 4 sets of tires into this process and he's happy to have my service business, and I get a great value all the way around as I now have two trusted partners. I pay in logistics what I save in money.

I see Boatvanna similarly. There is a LOT of service work to be had in the marine industry. Keeping hand built machines with thousands of moving parts floating and running and upgraded is a HUGE market in and of itself. If I was in that industry, I don't really see a downside to more avenues to increase total sales. Those sales are gonna need to be serviced at some point or another.

 

[TX_Mercenary]

maybe i should start a mobile boat oil change service lol. like they do for these car oil changes lol

 

[HangOutdoors]

maybe i should start a mobile boat oil change service lol. like they do for these car oil changes lol

TBH that has crossed my mind, when I am not having a great day at the office and I am day dreaming about boating. Especially at the rates some of these dealers are getting, $300-$800 ? Throw in things that can be done in a day like SeaDek Installation, Impeller changes, Prop Changes, etc. etc. And that could be a fantastic business.

People don 't have to drag their boat to you and you could also do things at their dock.

If one were to approach this, perhaps you could just specialize in Yamaha boats and keep an inventory of parts, like scuppers, trim, and a lot of things that you know go bad or get broken or need up graded and you now have parts that others have a hard time finding. Stock up on some common year mooring covers, Fins, maybe tabs, gelcoat patch for minor repair, anchor locker drains, tow valves, etc. etc. Of course the big work would go to the dealer. ........ As you can see I am annoyed and bored at work waiting for this conference call presentation to be over...... 1 more hour at least.

Hmmm tow and drop my boat off at a dealer that is 20 miles or more away and pick it up in a week or two, or schedule an appointment time on Thursday @ 3:00pm to have the oil changed and plugs changed, so I can use it on Wednesday and be ready to use it again on Friday is quite appealing....... And I can monitor the work. As I sit here I wonder why this isn't already being done all over the place.

 

[Farny]

Fun discussion - short answer from my perspective.
Large purchase decisions like a boat for most usually means a lot of research, touch and feel testing etc. I couldn’t buy online personally.

Wouldn’t this be the same as dealers just expanding their online marketing presence and maybe joining a network of dealers who sell online? Just means adding curbside delivery (I’m sure at a fee passed along to consumers) Texas Marine already operates as a network like that. As far as I know, they just don’t have a doorstep delivery. They have a water orientation to familiarize the new owner with their purchase.