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Gelcoat Repair Kit Supplies?

YamaHog

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I gave Spectrum Color in St. Augustine, FL a call today to verify what color gelcoat patch kit I need to order for my 2020 Yamaha 195s. They were able to confirm the correct color, but for retail orders, their site links to iBoat.com. I'm able to order the Gelcoat patch kit from iBoat, but they don't seem to have the repair kit bundle here:


Does anybody know of another kit like this i can order? Or am I going to have to buy all of these supplies separately and piece it together? Kind of frustrating a a retail customer to not be able able to get the bundle kit..........a professional shop is likely to have these supplies in bulk already.
 

tdonoughue

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So... a few things, then.

First, the gelcoat patch kit that you got, was it the paste or the gel? If it is the little jar, that is paste (and it will come with catalyst, instructions). Paste is the consistency of peanut butter, so you will be spreading it. Then you are needing a little plastic spatula thingy. Or a random piece of flat plastic will work, if you are just doing a spot or two. And something with which to mix. I prefer toothpicks, usually...

To prep the area, we need to know what type of fix you are doing. Assuming a ding, you will want to dremel out anything loose. For a scratch, you may need to widen it and feather out the edges some. Dremel tool is the best I found for that work (which you won't find in a kit). Cleanup the area with acetone (you can get this at the hardware store).

Once you fill the spot, you will then want to cover it. Basically, gelcoat cures best without air. Saran wrap will work, but will leave bumps in your repair (that you can sand out later, but is more work). A stiffer piece of plastic is ideal. Hold it in place with some masking tape.

When cured, you are off to the sanding part. You need wet sandpaper of various grits (400 or 600 up to 1000 or 2000) and a sanding block. A block of wood will do. Sandpaper is at the hardware store. Once you are down to the 2000 grit, you will need to polish it up with some rubbing compound, then some polish (auto parts store has these). Wax and you're done.

If you don't have the paste and are going to work with the pint of gelcoat, that gets a little messier. Then you probably want to spray on the stuff, which means a Preval sprayer, etc. Still not insurmountable from the tools & equipment perspective, but a bit more complex and more parts. And once you have all of that you probably want mold release to cover instead of the plastic (works better with the gel). But most people just have the paste.

Most of the things you would buy in the kit are pretty readily available. For a $20 investment, you can have a whole kit that will probably last you several repairs.
 

YamaHog

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@tdonoughue , thanks for the reply! The patch kit that I am purchasing is the paste patch kit here:


I am still concerned though about ordering because when I click on the "Retail Customers Click Here" on that product page it redirects me to a page on iBoats.com (Spectrum's retail partner), and the product description on that page doesn't seem to match the one on the spectrum page.

I'm actually planning to order two of these kits, one white to fix some dock rash on my bow:

IMG_20200817_171412.jpg

And a Suede Gray patch kit to fix gelcoat chafing from the the middle shipping cover strap on the underside of the boat.

IMG_20200812_163432.jpg

I did call Spectrum and the Suede Gray is the same as the one used in 2015, and the Yamaha White coat used through 04 -19 is supposed to be the same white used for 2020 & 2021 boats from what they looked up over the phone for me.

As far as the repair kit, it just looked super convenient to have the small amount of included supplies to fix these smaller areas. I watched quite a few videos of repairs using the paste, and I believe in the Youtube repair video done by Spectrum they wet sand with 280, 400, & then 800 grit before polishing with a medium cutting gel coat polish. (Assume you'd want to finish polishing with a fine polish like 3Ms Finesse It). I've seen various thoughts on what grits to use for the wet sanding. Any tips on repairing these two spots are appreciated. I have a Dremel with die grinder I plan to use to feather the edges of some of the scratches as needed.
 

tdonoughue

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Awesome. So, first, that 2oz can is exactly the paste stuff to which I was referring. The descriptions do not always match (particularly on the boat years to which they apply), I have found. But I have ordered through iBoats several times.

So, some tips on the spots (thanks for the pics--that makes this super easy). First, your white area will be much easier than your grey. Do that first.

On the white, I see maybe one scratch that might be deep enough for gel to stick in it. You need a wide enough gap that you can spread the peanut butter in there and so it will have spots on which to stick on either side. So several of these will need widening/deepening with the Dremel. But you are very close to the black, so I would recommend a very low speed and go slowly. Nick the black and you made more of a problem than you had at first...

On the sanding, you can certainly start with the 280. I found that when I used the plastic cover method I described above, the 280 was worthless (it was basically pretty smooth already) and I needed to start with 400 or 800. I also sanded more finely--to 1000 (and I think one time 2000) grit. That will minimize what you need to do with polish. But you definitely can go down to 800 and then polish, especially if you have a random orbital to use on it. (But careful for that black--if you nick that with the 280 grit, you will need to smooth it with all the rest and ultimately polish it--not tragic, but you made much more work for yourself).

Warning: after sanding with the 400, you will think, 'Oh, @#$@#, what have I gotten myself into. This looks like crap. This will never look right again. I hate tdonoughue.' This is a normal reaction. Keep going. You are wet sanding, so it spreads the stuff everywhere and it will start to dry on and make everything look horrible. Take a sponge between sandings and wipe things down. It will help your confidence, but also give you a better idea of if you missed a spot or need a touch more on a spot.

Your gray is going to be difficult. The two scratches below will be pretty easy (treat them just like above). On that edge is going to be dicey. Why? First, you need some spot onto which the gel can stick. So when you Dremel that, you are going to need a bit more and you are on a curved surface, which will make control an issue. You don't want to take away glass, just gelcoat. Then, when you go to put on the paste (after wiping down with acetone, remember), evening that out over the curve will be very difficult. And you will have put the hardener in, so you only have so much time (~15 min) before it starts to get goopy and less workable. My recommendation on that one would be, before you start anything on it, find the plastic with which you will cover it. Ideally, you need something that is relatively stiff, the same curve as the hull there, and big enough to cover the whole repair. I know; I'm describing a unicorn. But if you can find something like that first, you will get to this part, slap on enough paste to fill and a bit more and then that piece of plastic will do the rest to get you into the basic shape you need.

Sanding on that edge is also going to be fun. You will be using a block, but that will mean that as you come around that curve you may leave a flat spot. Do not be tempted to sand this without a block. In fact, better you should try a curved block than to just use your fingers (you will put a dip in the new gel immediately). Sand lightly. You can always sand more, but sanding less is reeeeaally difficult. Note that your most difficult sanding will be with the bigger grit (280). Once you are down to something like 1000, the paper will be too weak to do as much damage. And once you get to polishing you are home free.

Home something there is helpful.
 

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@tdonoughue, thanks for all of the great info. I have done some wet sanding before when I painted the plastic engine cover for my 2011 Camaro. :) That was a safer place to learn, and yes the scariest part about wet sanding is that it looks really bad before it looks really good. The black are you mention shouldn't be a problem as that is not a black stripe, just a shadow being cast on the white. That entire part of the hull is indeed white. I'm going to be picking up a Random Orbital buffer as well that I can use for the final polishing, as well as to use in the future when waxing the boat and my vehicles.

For the gray repair on that corner, i was thinking of some light flexible material that I could kind of shape on the corner near the area and use that to fit the plastic inside of to hold the shape.....taping the entire assembly to the hull to hold while curing.

A couple of first year learning experiences to repair, I'm hoping to knock out and learn something in the process. Really appreciate the information and suggestions.
 

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@tdonoughue , I saw in another thread that you mentioned you use a Griot's polisher/buffer on your boat. I'm currently in the market for a Griot's G9 most likely but was wondering if that will have enough power for the final polishing of my gelcoat repair. I was hoping to be able to use a DA type polisher for this just to be safe, even though I've read it's much harder to burn gelcoat than paint. Also was wanting to use the Griot's on my cars. If this won't cut it for final polishing for my gelcoat repair, I may have to grab a Harbor Freight special rotary for this as it's likely the only time I'll be using it in the near future.........the Griot's DA will get plenty of continuous use on the boat and vehicles for swirl mark removal and waxing. :)
 

tdonoughue

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Well... my Griot's is one of the 6" ones. I bought it with the same thought: I will use this on the boat and the car. And I do. Use it for waxing, polishing, etc. And I used it to repair my boat gelcoat (in several spots).

I have seen @mrcleanr6 , who is a pro, opine that a random orbital like mine is not the right tool for the repair job. That said, I have also seen that rotaries are for pros (like him) and in the wrong hands you can really mess things up. I believe that is probably true. I fully accept that mine may not be the right tool for the job and may take me longer working with it to get the same results. For me, the tradeoff is worth it. Someday, if I get good at this stuff (and I hope I don't--because that would mean I messed up my boat that frequently), no doubt I would step up to @mrcleanr6 's level and tools.

Tagged him on this, of course, as I think his view would be instructive. He is, after all, the pro. I'm just DIY. :)
 

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Very much appreciate the feedback! As far as dedicated rotaries go, if one is really needed for my repair, I was looking at this one, which seems to have a good range of speeds:


I just don't know how often I'd use it after the minor gelcoat repairs pictured above, whereas the Griot's DA would get a lot of use go forward.
 

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Well you are right in that it is far easier to burn paint with a rotary than a da for sure BUT that is also only with certain pads like heavy cutting foam. Wool is much harder to burn with. you can keep speeds very low on them also while you are learning and its really not bad and imo a skill worth learning. Black Polishing foam at slower speeds you will not burn paint and this puts you in the range of what a da will do but being rotary you will have that ability to change pads and increase the speed when you get comfortable with it so you can tackle other jobs.
 

tdonoughue

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@mrcleanr6 , appreciate your weighing in. Great input on the wool and the black--didn't know that...

So, if I understand correctly, look for a rotary with a wool bonnet and black polishing if you are a newbie? Most of us are in the gelcoat (rather than paint) world. And that will be the 'starter' kit to work up to more efficient tools?
 

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A twisted wool pad is for compounding and black foam is very soft and for polishing. Wool you spin a little faster than foam. What a beginner wants to stay away from is yellow cutting foam. This would take the place of the wool pad. These generate more heat and will burn easily. Wool and polishing foam can both be used on gel or paint so perfecrly fine for your car as well. on a rotary you can simply turn the speed down. This will allow you to get comfortable with it with less chance of burning anything and it will still cut better than a da. Typical speeds for wool are around 2000-2200 rpm. Foam around 1400-1600. Just keep the buffer moving. Dont stay in one spot. Dont apply pressure and always let the pad spin away from an edge. If it spins into the edge then it will obviously grab it. Edges are really the only thing you have to worry about burning. Flat areas are very difficult to mess up so start on you hull side first until you het the feel for it. Compounds and polishes are important. There are a million to choose from and there is alot of crap out there. A good one that is inexpensive and not loaded with fillers is meguires m100. There is a matching polish but not sure the #. Avoid these 2 in 1 products. They generally will do both steps ok but neither one great. You need compound, polish then whatever you want to wax with. I dont have any feedback on wax. I am working in a paint shop with new paint so i keep wax totally out of the shop. Auto geek or chemical guys are both good places for buffers and pads. Lake country or the chemical guys hex logic pads are good brands.
 

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@mrcleanr6 , this is great info! Are there any specific good online resources you'd recommend reading up on in regards to rpms for different types of pads and usage? Thanks!
 

mrcleanr6

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there is a forum i have belonged to for prob 15 years or so. its a paint forum but there is a really good buffing and compounding section there. its a good group with no drama and some really highly skilled professionals on there. if you cant find any specific info then join and post a question. you will get your answer. the website is Southern Polyurethanes Forum i am jim c on there. the only thing about buffing and polishing is that there are a million different products and everyone eventually has to find what works for them so you will get alot of feedback on products and what to use but in the end everyone there is pretty in sync so you wont get any bad info.
 

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a couple things to add to the tips from above. the m100 is great for a hull that is not in terrible shape. if you have somewhat of a gloss on the gel then that is where you want to start. that stuff on a wool pad. now if your hull is fairly chalky and oxidized then you need to get a bottle of 3m marine gelcoat compound and start with that. that is a much heavier grit to really work out that oxidation. then a quick pass with the m100 then the polish on the black pad. the m100 and 3m are both used with the twisted wool pad.
 

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Thanks for the tips @mrcleanr6! Also wanted to come back here and get your thoughts on a few things as I'm getting ready to do my repair soon. I ended up going with this Bauer rotary polisher from Harbor Freight which seems to be a good machine for the price/specs:


My next dilemma is around choosing the correct size pads. The machine has a pretty nice flexible backing plate that has a rubber guard around the edge. It's a 7" backing plate and I've been looking at the Presta brand wool pads as they get good reviews, but I see these only come 9" pads. Is 9" to large? I can't seem to find any definitive answer on what size pads one should use in relation to backing plate size.

Also a bit confused on which wool pad will be best for gelcoat. The two I am looking at are:


&


And my final question: The boat is a brand new 2020 model so gelcoat is nice & glossy. If I start with the Meguiar's M100 and wool pad, is that another polish I should finish it off with using a black foam finishing pad? I've read 3M Finesse It is very good.

@tdonoughue, any input from you is also welcomed and much appreciated in regards to what products/process worked for you. Thank you both in advance!
 

mrcleanr6

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Ok for the wool pad. For compounding you want a 100% twisted wool pad. None of that blended stuff. For polishing you want a black foam pad. Brand really doesnt matter on the wool. They are all basically the same. I have used presta, 3m, meguires and autogeeks private labeled ones. No difference really. As long as it fits your backing plate your fine. 9” is your std size pad. Good for large areas, hull etc. i mostly do smaller stuff with a mid size buffer so my pads are 6 or 7” i cant remember. The m100 is good. Finesse-it is also good but i looked at a bottle of that for the first time in years the other day and now they have 5 different grades of it. 3m always makes things complicated. A good polish to go along with the m100 would be the 3m prefect-it ex polish. Ive ised that for years and its a very nice polish. Polish is black to go along with their black foam pad. They color code it that way.
 

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I just patched the white on my '14 AR using just the spectrum paint/gelcoat. I did not buy the patch kit. I simply taped around the damaged area, filled in with gelcoat using popsicle sticks/throat depressors and let it dry for 4 hours. Or you can use a hair dryer to be quicker. Then sanded the area in stages (220 -> 400 -> 800). Then using any medium polishing compound and orbital polisher with wool pad to take out the finer scratches. This system worked well for me.
 

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Ok for the wool pad. For compounding you want a 100% twisted wool pad. None of that blended stuff. For polishing you want a black foam pad. Brand really doesnt matter on the wool. They are all basically the same. I have used presta, 3m, meguires and autogeeks private labeled ones. No difference really. As long as it fits your backing plate your fine. 9” is your std size pad. Good for large areas, hull etc. i mostly do smaller stuff with a mid size buffer so my pads are 6 or 7” i cant remember. The m100 is good. Finesse-it is also good but i looked at a bottle of that for the first time in years the other day and now they have 5 different grades of it. 3m always makes things complicated. A good polish to go along with the m100 would be the 3m prefect-it ex polish. Ive ised that for years and its a very nice polish. Polish is black to go along with their black foam pad. They color code it that way.
Thanks for the information on the pads and polish! So pads larger than the backing plate are fine as long as they fit ok. That is good to know. I didn't know if there was some rule of thumb in regards to pad size vs backing plate size. Thanks for clearing that up for me!
 

YamaHog

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I just patched the white on my '14 AR using just the spectrum paint/gelcoat. I did not buy the patch kit. I simply taped around the damaged area, filled in with gelcoat using popsicle sticks/throat depressors and let it dry for 4 hours. Or you can use a hair dryer to be quicker. Then sanded the area in stages (220 -> 400 -> 800). Then using any medium polishing compound and orbital polisher with wool pad to take out the finer scratches. This system worked well for me.
Thanks for sharing what worked for you. I've watched quite few videos and it seems everybody uses different grits for the wet sanding. Some start with 180 and some with 220. Some sand incrementally, working their way up to 600 grit, where others got o 800 grit or finer before compounding & polishing.
 

mrcleanr6

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You can end with 600 but your going to be buffing the crap out of the gel and having to start with supe coarse compound. That is kinda the old school way. Even with paint. Its faster and tou het a better finish if you sand as fine as you can then you have to buff very little. Every few years 3m’s system for sanding and buffing paint, the sanding gets finer and finer. They now have you sand to 8000grit then use the buffer from there
 
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