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Have you had a 1.8 timing chain failure, was it in warranty and how has Yamaha handled it?

Bruce

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Unfortunately I am reading a growing number of posts about timing chain failures. For those that have had them, how has Yamaha handled it? Has anyone had to repair an out of warranty engine? Did Yamaha pay for the repair?

@joel, @JEvanoff, @Yamaha242lsdallas, @Nashvegas, @tuan, What was your experience?
 

haknslash

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Supposedly the 2016 engines use new timing chains but I have not seen any documentation stating such. I also don't know if this applies to all 2016 1.8L engines including the SHO (and SVHO PWC engines). Can anyone confirm and chime in?

Are there Yamaha engineers at the dealer demo meeting?
 
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haknslash

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Ok after digging around there is indeed an upgrade to 1.8L engines. However it's unclear if Yamaha upgraded the n/a and supercharged engines. Going further did Yamaha only upgrade PWC engines and not the boats (seems unlikely). The upgrade include a wider chain, crank gear and other parts. You can also buy an upgrade kit to retrofit into 14/15 1.8 L engines, although it says SVHO I'm wondering if they aren't all the same internally.

Apparently the timing chain issue stems from those years for some reason on the SVHO, so it will be interesting to know if Yamaha boat engines were also affected during that time. One of the guys offering the kit said once you see the changes compared to the previous design he doesn't think there will be a timing chain issue anymore. I imagine all of these engines be it HO, SHO or SVHO are variations of the same 1.8? If so this makes me rest a bit easier knowing Yamaha has addressed the issue moving forward. Really makes me want to pull my valve cover just to confirm if my 2016 has the wider chain and different crank gear. 6D3-12176-10 is a cam gear that is used on our boats. If you look them up online like this one on eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-cam-chain-sprocket-gear-6D3-12176-10-Waverunner-242-AR240-SX192-AR192-/152168447595?hash=item236df23e6b:g:OxgAAOSwRgJXiOb1&vxp=mtr) it lists every single 1.8 L engine boat and PWC. This makes me think they all use the same timid chain.

Here are some interesting reads even though they are primarily SVHO related it may apply to our boat engine issues:
This is the thread I was reading where I stumbled upon the chains made and the kit http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=242672
Kit to fix the timing chain issue http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=242325
How to inspect your timing chain
 
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Craig

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More and more I wish we had kept our '12...we purchased the YES warranty but hearing about this makes me sick.
 

haknslash

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Ok even more digging and I'm feeling confident the PWC and boat engines are the same internally in regards to timing chain, crankshaft and sprocket. Doesn't matter if they are n/a or supercharged the parts are the same.

If you go to this website http://www.yamahapart.com and click on the wave runner parts, select the year/model and go to "valve". This will show a parts list diagram. Look at items 3 and 14. Now go back and select 2016 as the year and notice the parts are different. Now go back and change from "valve" to "crankshaft & piston" , note the changes to the crankshaft part number 1 and it's also different for 2016. This makes me feel at ease and shows all 1.8 L engines regardless it they're normally aspirated or supercharged do in fact have upgraded components.
 
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swatski

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The timing chain part was replaced in all 1.8l engines, N/A and supercharged, produced after 07/15.
This from a very good source.
 

Matt J

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The timing chain part was replaced in all 1.8l engines, N/A and supercharged, produced after 07/15.
This from a very good source.
Good to know! Thanks! I was going back and forth on rather to buy the three extra yrs with the YES warranty. I know this boats are reliable, but it's things like this that would def make having a extended warranty worth the extra cash.
 

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So what year boats/engines have timing chain issues or are likely to? I have a 2010 242 LS , are my timing chains subject to any more likelihood of failure?
 

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So in July of 2015 Yamaha went to a different (more stout) timing chain and gear? I know for sure that my boat was built before that. Bought new in January 2015 so the boat was built at the tail end of 2014. If I remember correctly it was October or November 2014 as a manufacture date. So basically I wait for it to self destruct then warranty it? I guess I could pull the valve cover off and take a peek but it would only probably confirm that I have the old style components. I probably have 120 hours with no issue but I'm pretty easy on stuff.
 

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I'm hearing its very rare but it has happened. Never heard of any failures in a boat though. I have a 2014 SVHO and haven't had the problem yet. I'm told from a dealer friend that yamaha only changed the timing chain setup because of a new engine coming out not because the previous chain was failing. is that true or not who knows? The guys on greenhulk are in debate about how many chains have failed its like our cobra vs thrust vector debate here. I read that forum a lot and its seadoo guys claiming the failure rate is like 10% while more reputable people say it was like 1% of the chains failing and clearly not enough for a recall. I don't know if Yamaha just doesn't want to step up and fix the issue or maybe its not that big of an issue in reality. It sucks either way knowing that it has happened to multiple people. Im hoping to get through this season and going to have mine looked at or just buy a new '17.
 

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I'm not affected by this but if I was I would pull the valve covers to check for damaged links. The problem doesn't seem nearly as frequent as the plastic scupper problem but the timing chain will ONLY break on the water with NO notice. At least the scupper valve was usually kind enough to give us warning by leaking first.

The other issue is, yes, your YES warranty, if still in force, should cover your problem but you can probably expect at least a month out of the water. If your warranty is expired you will be out of the water at least a month and be out several thousands of dollars also.
 

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I plan on pulling the valve covers to do the chain check at the end of the season when I get everything buttoned up for winter.
 

swatski

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I would not loose any sleep over it, and I didn't with my 2012 sx190. In boats this is a very rare event, it is less than 1 percent for sure, probably In the order of 1/1000.

Skis are a bit different because of constant jumping the waves leading to loading and unloading the pump at WOT. Even there it is very rare.

There are tens of thousands of 1.8l engines running hard with high hours, the few that break make the news.

--
 

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So it sounds like all 1.8s manufactured before (early) 2015 have older timing chains which have a greater likelihood to fail compared to the newer chains. If this is correct I suddenly don't feel as bad about it because unlike the issue with the leaking oil cooler which only seemed apply to 2010 and early 2011 1.8s I'm in the same boat (pun intended) as a lot of other people.

I won't be trying to fix what's not broken and I doubt I will use the boat any differently so I'm on the hope it doesn't break "strategy". Given how Yamaha didn't address leaking oil coolers with a recall I don't think they will issue a recall on the timing chains either but would love to be wrong about this.
 

swatski

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Here is another trivia fun fact.

All of the 2014 and earlier SHO engines that broke timing chains were replaced with THE EXACT SAME engine (same parts) under warranty.

Eventually, they did change the parts.

I seriously would not think of it as a common /frequent /likely event, the timing chain failure.

And just watch -- something "catastrophic" will transpire in the new boats, too. Like - starter falling off? Already happened... There will be something. Just effing wait.

--
 

McMark

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At least we don't have to replace our flywheels every 300 hours like the outboard guys do.
 

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I won't be trying to fix what's not broken and I doubt I will use the boat any differently so I'm on the hope it doesn't break "strategy". Given how Yamaha didn't address leaking oil coolers with a recall I don't think they will issue a recall on the timing chains either but would love to be wrong about this.
I think that's a good strategy, and also a good chance that one engine would fail and not both at the same time. One more reason it's nice to have 2 engines. Not so much a choice on the 192s... (Sorry guys!)
 

swatski

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Another thought:

Valve adjustment is already a maintenance item on 1.8, I believe it comes up at 100 hours or so.

Maybe we can have an FAQ on how to do that and check the timing chain at the same time? That might be reasonable.

--
 

swatski

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I think that's a good strategy, and also a good chance that one engine would fail and not both at the same time. One more reason it's nice to have 2 engines. Not so much a choice on the 192s... (Sorry guys!)
Two engines twice the odds.
 

swatski

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Just to clarify, the timing chain part has changed for 2016 MY.
It is shared between N/A, SHO and SVHO models.
The old part is 94591-66152-00, new 94591-74152-00. Here is the visual:

14-15 Chain 3Link/4Link
upload_2016-8-9_12-58-57.png

16 Chain 4Link/5Link
upload_2016-8-9_12-59-41.png

EDIT: As @haknslash already pointed out, there is more to the "fix-it" kit that just the TC. The TC is the crux though, and should be easy to tell.

--
 
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