I need HELP on first boat purchase...

[rzrcrazy2014]

OK, This is my dilemma. I have narrowed my choice down to 2 boats the 2021 Yamaha 212SD or the Scarab 215ID. I do not want the wake edition on either boat. I am leaning towards the Yamaha, but the open loop cooling system scares me. I am from the automotive industry and I see what damage just using tap water or wrong coolant can do to a cooling system. The thought of all of that trash-silt-sand-weeds running through the coolant passage ways in the block baking on the walls from the heat of the engine and plugging / restricting the flow makes me ponder why open systems are still in use. I will be using this boat in a 50/50 use between inland lakes and around Florida keys. Since I have no experience and I am completely new to all of this I need some advice. 1st is the open loop cooling system as detrimental to the engine as I imagine? Does Yamaha use a sea strainer ? Any pros or cons to either boat from current owners would also be helpful. Does Yamaha allow you to pick any options other than hull color? That is the only option I see on the web site. Last which boat would you buy and why. PLEASE BE CIVIL. I know we have haters on both sides. I am just looking to educate my self. Thank you to everyone that takes time from their busy day to respond to me and help out.

 

[Elliott]

The type of cooling system should not be a factor. All outboard engines and probably most inboards are open loop; you simply flush the engine after use - much more important for salt use. I am three plus years in only salt, and I frequently operate is shallow water. I have had zero problems.

Yamaha does have a plastic strainer at the intake in the pump's cone - beyond the impeller.

 

[212s]

Most of your concerns are non-issues. Automotive cooling is completely different from boat cooling for needs and results, as @Elliott said no need to be concerned with raw water cooling as it's an established and reliable system and it works fine. Bigger issues are things like will the wife be happy with your choice, is her seat comfy, will there be enough room for the kids, friends, dogs, etc. Search, research, Google, as much as you can. There's threads on this forum about new users and boats - read up and see what's out there. Do your homework.

Having said that, I'd say forget the Drive feature and look at the 212SE model or even the basic 212S model, or something else completely. You need to find the boat that fits YOUR needs and wants, our opinions don't matter. The 212s is the best though.

JK

 

[tdonoughue]

Bought and like my Yamaha, but there are advantages (and disadvantages) to the closed loop system. Disadvantages are cost, maintenance. Advantages include that you don't get the passages in the engine clogged from sand sucked into your cooling system. We have had a couple of engines on the board here die because of that. I think it is a valid consideration. That said, I agree that the design of these systems is completely different from automotive. These systems are designed to be run like this. They have anodes in them, sizings designed for raw water, screens on intake, etc.

Beyond that, I don't have a lot of experience with a Scarab to be able to comment. Except to say that I like my boat and am reasonably happy with it. Yamahas do have some fit and finish issues (loose screws/bolts, sticking doors, trash in the bilge, etc.)--most of which I just fixed myself. But the engines have been solid (so far, knock on wood), the layout is great and the back platform area is hard to beat.

Welcome!

 

[biffdotorg]

It's very common for any Rotax-based boat dealer to bring this point up. It's one of the few differentiators, and they will make it sound like a detriment. And in some cases it may be.

But as the others have mentioned, if it were a real issue, the entire industry would be moving away from it, and they have not.

As far as options, Yamaha has limited the "options" as they want to make it an easy decision. Having so many models in the '21 line up is actually amazing compared to other model years. It was usually limited to hull color and trailer (painted/galvanized) So once you pick the model, it truly comes down to those two choices. All accessories are just that, optional items.

Good luck. There is no wrong decision.

 

[Chevyguy2021]

Its a great first boat, if I live in FL, I would only have a jet boat.

 

[rzrcrazy2014]

Thank all of you for the help. Biffdotorg I know all salesman are going to say their product is the best out there is why I am trying to learn on my own. So when I do make the purchase I can bypass the sales person as much as possible. Now for the impossible try to locate 1 of each model in stock somewhere to have a visual inspection of each makers build quality.

 

[Tyguy]

Good luck with the search, rzrcrazy2014. I hope you find something you love.

Before our Yamaha boat we owned a Yamaha Waverunner for 10 years and a Sea-Doo for 5 years, so I experienced both technologies for an extended time. For normal operations I never saw a difference between the two. I put the craft in water, had fun, trailered them home at the end of the day, and flushed the systems with house water. BRP systems still run lake water through their systems, so they're not totally sealed. I never had a problem with either cooling system, but there are 2 things I noted as an owner:

1. The Sea-Doo required periodic coolant replacement (not often), and regular coolant level checks to confirm there were no leaks.
2. In the owner's manual Sea-Doo recommended short flushing times to prevent overheat. My understanding is that the radiator plates mounted on the bottom of the hull weren't sufficient outside of water, so the system could overheat when flushing on house water. I just kept to the recommendations and never ran into an overheat scenario.

Personally I wouldn't make a purchase decision based on the cooling system. Think of how many commercial and pleasure craft are out there right now, and relatively few of them use closed loop cooling. Open loop marine cooling systems are the norm, well proven, and nothing to be concerned over.

 

[Miitch]

I cant comment on much as i have a sea doo (old scarab basically) but i can confirm the cooling systems both work, with minimal maintenance required on both ends. Rotax uses raw water to cool its exhaust system, which I feel most people forget. That being said, when boating in salt water, you are still required to flush with house water. If you dont flush, you wont have salt water sitting in your engine, but you will have it in your exhaust. I agree that the cooling system shouldn't be a deciding factor, as they're both going to require the same care when boating in salt water.

My two-cents: drive both. You know your needs best. There are horror stories on both sides. You'll get that "feeling" when you're on the right boat for you.

Good luck, my friend, and welcome to the forum!!

 

[rzrcrazy2014]

Thanks again for all of the advice. looks like we shall see which one the wife thinks is prettier.

 

[rzrcrazy2014]

Oh yeah, does the Yamaha have anything other than the plastic strainer on the water intake? Any sort of screen or filter ?

 

[tdonoughue]

I think from the service manual shots I have seen here that there is a little assembly. I think it is a strainer and basically a finer strainer. I don't think it is a screen per se. Certainly not a filter.

 

[212s]

Oh yeah, does the Yamaha have anything other than the plastic strainer on the water intake? Any sort of screen or filter ?

It's not needed - anything that fits through the intake strainer will move easily through the rest of the cooling system and out the exhaust or cooling water outlets on the side of the boat. Just like I/O and outboards, raw water intake can suck up small debris but the cooling passages in the engines are much larger than the intake holes so no issues with debris clogging the cooling system.

 

[rzrcrazy2014]

Awesome info and that makes sense.

 

[OCMD]

Get the Yamaha. Hands down. Zero maintenance issues. NO ISSUES with the cooling system. Check the Scarab thread on this board to see what issues they may have.

 

[Miitch]

Get the Yamaha. Hands down. Zero maintenance issues. NO ISSUES with the cooling system. Check the Scarab thread on this board to see what issues they may have.

I think there are many people here than can agree yamaha's - though reputable - are NOT free of maintenance issues... lets not fill each others heads with air now. Its a boat. and it WILL cost you another thousand one way or another..

Plenty of issues with both Yamaha's and Rotax.

 

[rzrcrazy2014]

Thanks to this forum I found the following and it has influenced my decision

 

[Scarabscott]

In my opinion Living in FL in salt water the closed loop is the way to go on the Scarab. Have had both and seen what a open system can do to inside passages of engine.
Plus the Vinyl and finish on Scarab appears to have more appealing, I have the cognac interior and it awesome looking.

 

[Canuckjetboater]

Thanks again for all of the advice. looks like we shall see which one the wife thinks is prettier.

@rzrcrazy2014 .... now THAT is the most intelligent comment on the forum so far - although I believe @212s stated that also. Happy wife......bigger second boat!

 

[Elliott]

Thanks to this forum I found the following and it has influenced my decision View attachment 134973

There must be more (pre-existing) problems with the Scarab line and the other three. It seems that every manufacturer cannot keep up with demand due to or in spite of Covid.