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I'm contemplating making a DIY speed control system

as for true cruise control....the connext with the drive mode really does maintain a constant speed....when it works, it is very good....Mine has gone out on me twice now....boat back in the shop. I went out the first month I had the boat....they fixed it....lasted about 2 months and started doing the same thing. I think the square wave, and the sine wave got fucked up and I broke my algorithm OUCH:)
I don't think you were the only one with the drive mode issues. Did they tell you which part or connection was the issue?

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I think the square wave, and the sine wave got fucked up and I broke my algorithm OUCH:)

LMAO. NO ... LMFAO!

I would be interested to find out what the issue is. The e-series are a network and micro-controller nightmare. I almost feel better going with perfect pass because is not another computer connected to the network and rather its own stand alone system.
 
They found some GPS connection problems, and the completly reinstalled the software. There was also an issue with the throttle bodies, I think they said....but whatever, it was fixed and worked perfectly, then cratered again after a couple of months. Seems like Yamaha could get this right....appears PP has it down solid! IF it isnt fixed permanently this time, I am going to have to get ugly :) I cant be taking this thing out of the water every couple of months and drag it an hour away for it to sit in the shop for 1-2 weeks!
 
There are those little servo motors pullling a rope that adjusts the cable/potentiometer operating the throttle body. The whole thing is surprisingly low tech, other than the GPS part.
It works though! and has been time tested over and over. But when I first looked at it- it did seem like something out of a RC model store...

Yeah lots more going on there then you might think. Likely RPM is factored in along with GPS speed to invoke error handling if needed. The parts really are not that expensive in quantity. It is all of the other costs associated with doing business that hike up the price but I am sure there is still a decent margin there. I bet there are quite a few folks who could figure out how to build their own using an arduino with servos/steppers/actuators whatever. The hard part comes in with all of the time perfecting the code/logic and programming in error handling for safety. By engaging the throttle cable directly the resolution is very good allowing fine control and with gps antenna updating 10 times a second or more things get very smooth so the programming does not have to be over the top complex but to do it right, make sure safety is baked in , that it will stand up to the environment, and stand up to prolonged use over time takes ... well time and determination.

@ Bruce I believe that steady pass is using PWM control from a standard micro controller pinout. Sure you could duplicate attach two pwm devices to one channel but will it have enough juice to push both?
 
So my question on this is why do Yamaha advertise Cruise control when obviously you cannot get the boat set at a desired speed? My experience with the cruise control is it either picks up speed or drops speed depending on water and wind conditions. That's not much of cruise control to me? Class action lawsuit?

Not sure on the lawsuit part, but what you state here was one huge reason I felt a letdown the first time I demo'd a new Yamaha 242 Limited-S ($$$). The boat IS advertised with several "cruise control" features, but in all honesty, it has none.

The first time I accelerated, set the "cruise", then found out all it does is hold the throttle, I couldn't believe it. News flash, all boats hold a set throttle anyway, they are not like a car with a spring-loaded throttle that returns to zero. All the Yamaha "cruise" does is let you make minute adjustments up or down to the throttle, it doesn't set, or hold a speed whatsoever. You can make minute adjustments on the throttle itself, btw. When I confronted the sales guy about the obvious miss in functionality, all he could do was sheepishly agree, and point me to the E-Series.

Given most "nice" boats have had true speed control standard now for years, I felt this was a huge miss in a boat in this price range, especially when I found out I had to move up to the "E Series" to get a true speed control, or add an aftermarket device, like I had to do 20 years ago to a ski boat. The lack of a true speed control on these boats really limits them for watersports use, IMO, especially for less advanced drivers. Not to mention it's harder to maintain steady speed with a jet at watersports speeds to begin with.

I was really hoping when the new boats came out in '17 they would make the E-series electronics standard on the smaller boats, or at least an option, but they didn't.

Yamaha is a big leader in Jet Boat sales, but hugely behind in this regard, I was very disappointed.
 
I will readily admit to not much knowledge (certainly not as much as @Mainah or @swatski ), but, were I to undertake such a thing, I think my first try would be to disconnect the rheostat to which the throttle attaches and use it as input into a box (a Pi or something--need to check out that one you guys mention), along with input from the GPS. Output a variable resistance to the wires that came out of the rheostat. When not operational, you have the box query the input resistance and just output that same resistance. When activated, it takes the GPS input to adjust the resistance output, but also monitors the input resistance for movement beyond X. If there is movement beyond X, then the box kicks off and once again mirrors the input resistance as output.

Probably doesn't make much sense, but just an idea as to how to approach, if someone tries this.
 
Not sure on the lawsuit part, but what you state here was one huge reason I felt a letdown the first time I demo'd a new Yamaha 242 Limited-S ($$$). The boat IS advertised with several "cruise control" features, but in all honesty, it has none.

The first time I accelerated, set the "cruise", then found out all it does is hold the throttle, I couldn't believe it. News flash, all boats hold a set throttle anyway, they are not like a car with a spring-loaded throttle that returns to zero. All the Yamaha "cruise" does is let you make minute adjustments up or down to the throttle, it doesn't set, or hold a speed whatsoever. You can make minute adjustments on the throttle itself, btw. When I confronted the sales guy about the obvious miss in functionality, all he could do was sheepishly agree, and point me to the E-Series.

Given most "nice" boats have had true speed control standard now for years, I felt this was a huge miss in a boat in this price range, especially when I found out I had to move up to the "E Series" to get a true speed control, or add an aftermarket device, like I had to do 20 years ago to a ski boat. The lack of a true speed control on these boats really limits them for watersports use, IMO, especially for less advanced drivers. Not to mention it's harder to maintain steady speed with a jet at watersports speeds to begin with.

I was really hoping when the new boats came out in '17 they would make the E-series electronics standard on the smaller boats, or at least an option, but they didn't.

Yamaha is a big leader in Jet Boat sales, but hugely behind in this regard, I was very disappointed.

I think you are making several good points, but lets try to put it in perspective.

The lack of true car-like cruise control in new (non-E) Yammies is disappointing (to some) and the lack of chart plotting capability is considered a major mistake for Yamaha (according to others)... My opinion is that (and what @Mainah said, too) the Connext already controls and displays so much -- I actually prefer speed control system, nav, etc. on a secondary display. But you can, for an extra 20k, get a real cruise control in Connext (E-series).

The Medallion system in Rotax boats seems light years ahead in design. But it costs an arm and a leg, too, an is also optional w/the highest trim. Yamaha's basic new Connext system, which I believe is built by Murphy and is based on NMEA 2000, is decidedly a step forward for them and comes standard on all 240 trims, albeit lacking navigation in general and GPS-based speed control (in non-E-series models).

I personally find the AR240 RPM based cruise control to be adequate for cruising. It is decidedly NOT good enough for serious water sports. But neither is a typical speed-based cruise control system.

For starters, most speed-based systems (like in a car comparison), not RPM based, a typical disadvantage is you cannot preset a speed for a run (you must first take the boat up to the desired speed, engage the cruise). But even that aside, a typical speed based cruise control will never keep the speed through tight turns, especially if a boat is loaded with ballast. The speed will vary wildly at slower (wake surfing) speeds, and a typical cruise control becomes useless when weighted down for wake surfing.

The problem is when the boat is weighted down its a lot harder to pull and the typical speed control/cruise module doesn't want to give the boat 100% throttle. With a dedicated system, such as the PP, there are specifically designed KDW setting that will correct this.

Yes, at the end w/basic Connext one still needs a dedicated system (such as the PP Stargazer) -- and it is an extra 1k plus install. Bad? Well, it is actually really cheap if you consider the premium cost of factory systems (any brand) with similar capabilities (if that).

Not to mention PP is well time-tested and actually better supported than some OEM systems..., too.

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@swatski I have to agree with @Micah Thompson. Yamaha should have made gps speed control standard in their ar and limited s series many years ago. Back when Seadoo was in the hull game they were lightyears ahead of Yamaha on the technology front and did already have gps speed control. I still don't get why BRP decided to kill the Seadoo boat line up and sell the power plant to other boat makers. The profit margins on their power plant must be petty darn good. That said I do like that there are other players in the game now.

The gps speed control implementation that Yamaha decided to go with in their e-series boats is over complicated in my opinion. They could have done as @tdonoughue is eluding to and simply increased or decreased the reference voltage being sent from the ECU to the aps/tps based upon gps readings and set point. No need for fancy electronic throttles or anything like that. My guess is that the cost of licensing the patent rights is part of what held them back. I believe that Connext and the SPU is built by Actia and I am not sure how many of the other add ons for the e-series are built by third parties. It would appear to me that Yamaha is making a very good profit margin by doing high volume and extending product life cycles as long as possible. I predict a major electronics redesign in the next 3 years for Yamaha because they are spending a boat load on third parties to make stuff that sits on top of their existing product. I am betting the 2020 models will be pretty cool.

If I could take the scarab styling, the chaparral quality and medallion display, and marry that with the Yamaha hull and clean out plugs I would have my dream jet boat.
 
Geez another 3 years before I seen redesigned Yammi! Good! Would be irritated and would feel I need a new boat right away if it happened today. lo
 
Just my guess.
 
All in all I'm happy I pulled the trigger last year. 2017 AR is same features as 2016 with ugly color scheme for more money! Hmm. I still want them to bring back the 2015 space blue style. That was super clean looking to me.
 
@swatski I have to agree with @Micah Thompson. Yamaha should have made gps speed control standard in their ar and limited s series many years ago. Back when Seadoo was in the hull game they were lightyears ahead of Yamaha on the technology front and did already have gps speed control. I still don't get why BRP decided to kill the Seadoo boat line up and sell the power plant to other boat makers. The profit margins on their power plant must be petty darn good. That said I do like that there are other players in the game now.

The gps speed control implementation that Yamaha decided to go with in their e-series boats is over complicated in my opinion. They could have done as @tdonoughue is eluding to and simply increased or decreased the reference voltage being sent from the ECU to the aps/tps based upon gps readings and set point. No need for fancy electronic throttles or anything like that. My guess is that the cost of licensing the patent rights is part of what held them back. I believe that Connext and the SPU is built by Actia and I am not sure how many of the other add ons for the e-series are built by third parties. It would appear to me that Yamaha is making a very good profit margin by doing high volume and extending product life cycles as long as possible. I predict a major electronics redesign in the next 3 years for Yamaha because they are spending a boat load on third parties to make stuff that sits on top of their existing product. I am betting the 2020 models will be pretty cool.

If I could take the scarab styling, the chaparral quality and medallion display, and marry that with the Yamaha hull and clean out plugs I would have my dream jet boat.
Thank you for those clarifications!

I must admit to a near complete level of ignorance about the technology BEHIND the speed controls. I can't tell if the Yamaha proprietary "PP-equivalent" requires fly by wire?

Distinct from that, I think a simple GPS-based speed control is really not terribly useful for water sports, unless equipped with KDW-like abilities to adjust throttle push. Also, for regular cruising I THINK most boaters tend to set RPM not speed albeit I don't actually know it (so speaking for myself) and/or it could be just the legacy/old habits. But I do know that in most ski boats the GPS-speed ctrl does not work great in slalom courses, hence the PP.

I am very glad they (Yamaha) started offering the GPS speedos in 2015+ AR/SX trim! Yeah, that's pathetic, but unbelievably they did not until that point.

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Yup! Class action lawsuite because they tricked me! I'm so dumb I thought I was buying a boat with cruise control like my Truck:cyclops:
That makes two of us (probably a lot more).
 
The thing I can't figure out is how PP connects to the throttle control in the rear, without it affecting the manual throttle lever position and how the PP hardware doesn't interfere with manual control. Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Anyone reading this in MN with PP installed that I can take a look at?
 
The thing I can't figure out is how PP connects to the throttle control in the rear, without it affecting the manual throttle lever position and how the PP hardware doesn't interfere with manual control. Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Anyone reading this in MN with PP installed that I can take a look at?

This is easier to understand when you see it visually in some of the perfect pass install threads. Look at the photos of the perfect pass throttle cable brackets installed (quite a few on this site). To put it into words perfect pass moves the housing of the original throttle cable in relation to a fixed point on its own bracket. This means that as the perfect pass pulls back in relation to the to the end point of the bracket more cable is pulled on the APS/TPS as long as the throttles at the helm don't change position. If you do more the the the cable inside the housing then move affecting the APS/TPS. Yeah just look at the photos. to copy what they did you would need a couple of custom motorcycle cable kits, materials to make your own brackets and servos/stepper motors. Personally I recommend stepper motors as they have more torque in a smaller package. Copying perfect pass is very doable it is just the time it would take to get it all perfect that makes it a pass for me.

A good starting point would be getting familiar with the gps and motor libraries. No need to attach a display, buttons, or dpad right away as you can program in some command lines from your phone if you attach a bluetooth or wifi module. The worst part of the coding will be in the comparative do loop and logic.
 
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