Insurance premium?

[Enduro900]

@Yambers I had State Farm, great Company. I switched from them about 6 years ago when AAA gave me better rates. I do check every year though with them to see where they are at with pricing on my scenario. If it was sizeable I wouldn't have a problem switching everything back to them.

We have a 15 yr old whom will be 16 yr. old in the household next February. I am sure we will feel it, but have heard that lately State Farm has been great with younger drivers in the household and premiums.

Hence the reason i am looking to buy a boat this spring.......finally done paying car and insurance costs for the kids......all on their own now.

 

[Yambers]

@HangOutdoors ......respectfully I wouldn't ride a lawnmower with less than one million 3rd party liability....and that is in Canada with far less litigation than the U.S.A. I carry two million 3rd party liability on house, boat and vehicles. Doesn't add much but IMO (respectfully) $500K is just a short hospital stay - then they are after your house - or am I missing something and just out to lunch?

Now you are getting into health insurance territory. Thats a whole different rip off.. ?

 

[Yambers]

Hence i am looking to buy a boat this spring.......finally done paying car and insurance costs for the kids......all on there own now.

I dont pay for any at the moment. 2 are over 18 and pay their own bills, and 1 doesnt have a permit, yet.. but its coming.. I am right there with ya.

Its amazing to me that we pay to have children. ?

 

[HangOutdoors]

@Canuckjetboater $500/$1 mil on boat and vehicles. $2 mil flat on house liability. I also have a creative umbrella policy which is peanuts in price for another $1 million which is over all my other policies and is an additive. It is just cheaper that way. I do go round and round about the umbrella policy and policy limits and what is right sized for us.

 

[haolegirl70]

I wanted to caveat my previous post. Progressive is good for a lot of people and is not a bad insurance company. They just don't compete in MY scenario, not even close. The good thing is that almost anyone can get insurance which is important for different things so I commend them, Geico, "The General", etc. at providing creative insurance programs for different people through all stages of life. I won't discount those things, they are important.

But what I have found is that by covering multiple things, where I live in Michigan, with my credit, income, area I live in, home, boat, auto's, life, towing and the specific coverages and riders I have on personal property, computers, Jewlery, tools and deductible, etc..... They cannot even come close to what I am paying. Also my Agent is about 3 miles away so if there is a big problem, which there hasn't been, I can drive over there and we can get it squared away.

I wanted to provide some clarity to my initial post and hopefully not discourage anyone from looking at all possible avenues for their own personal scenario. I will say be very diligent on understanding on exactly what you are paying for and the context and parameters of the policy and what it will and what it won't cover. I have seen it before where someone has a good price on insurance and is basically hung out to dry if something happens. On 40k -90k boats, it is a lesson you don't want to learn the hard way. Read everything on the policy especially the exclusions.

The neighbor with the Monterey had his boat stored in a yard and a heavy tree branch fell on it. His insurance company covered him for theft, damage while in his possession or operating or while stored at his house, slip, or in a marina dry storage/rack. Didn't cover it basically be parked in a parking lot. The damages wasn't much, about $1,500 he said but he changed insurance companies and made sure the exclusions were very clear.

Also another good thing. If you store your boat during an off season, verify with your insurance company your covered for Theft, Damage both intentional and non-intentional, Rodent/Animal Damage, Environmental Damage, etc., etc. Also some may make a distinction between a Professional Service/Company (that does this as a business), and some dudes barn who rents you some space. You may be surprised if you don't read through it all. I am just went through this with my insurance company and was asking more questions than the Riddler and having him send over the documentation that clarifies each point, since I am considering storage soon. That makes me sleep better. I have enough surprises with family, kids and work. Don't need them with my insurance company when shit hits the fan.

Thank you for the information. I will ask these questions now.

 

[haolegirl70]

I've never heard of NBOA but sounds like I need to get a quote. Does anyone have experience working with them?

I called Progressive, Allstate (my homeowners), and US Boat (Geico) and they were all similar. I ended up going with progressive which is $1,300/year. 2019 212X, Orlando, $100,000/$300,000 liability, with a $1,000 deductible. My record is clean.

I just got off the phone with NBOA to clarify coverage and it's pretty good. For $596/yr we get $300k liability, $300k

I've never heard of NBOA but sounds like I need to get a quote. Does anyone have experience working with them?

I called Progressive, Allstate (my homeowners), and US Boat (Geico) and they were all similar. I ended up going with progressive which is $1,300/year. 2019 212X, Orlando, $100,000/$300,000 liability, with a $1,000 deductible. My record is clean.

Our quote from NBOA (they use CHUBB insurance) is $596/yr for $58,000 Property Damage Covered (Agreed Value) $870 ded, $300k liability, $5000 medical payments, $300k uninsured boater, $3500 trailer, $2500 personal property, $1000 per incident emergency towing ($35/yr membership for 24/7 towing and an additional $1000 per incident with membership). $2900 named storm deductible.

We didn't get quoted anything close to this coverage by Geico and they wanted $1300/yr with only $100k liability and uninsured boaters (Agreed Value). Even United Marine is $1100/yr with only $100k liability and uninsured boater coverage with an Agreed Value policy. Skisafe was also over $1000/yr and they exclude theft, which seems crazy to me. Tried our homeowners insurance but they do not offer boat insurance. I also checked the exclusions with NBOA and there's nothing about it has to be in our possession or on the water. Seems like pretty good overall coverage.

 

[HangOutdoors]

Sounds pretty decent. The only concern I would have, personally, is $300k would be very light for me. Something happens and you inadvertently run over people/kids in the water, with a lot of medical bills, that is not going to be enough and if they sue for beyond, everything you have could be jeopardized. God forbid someone can prove you were negligent and should of known, etc. etc. (hate the court system and attorneys). But that is a personal choice, each individual has to make. Of course you may never have an accident. Personally I carry much more, the increase was negligible.

Edit: Is it 100k/300k liability or 300k/600k, or something else. The first number is per person, the second is multiple people per incident. Which if you lose control and go through a swimming area, or lose control and crash through another boat at speed, would happen, as an example. As you can imagine a 100/300 if you hurt one person, and they sue, Medical can eat that 100k up very quickly so they would try and get a lot money.

 

[Canuckjetboater]

I just got off the phone with NBOA to clarify coverage and it's pretty good. For $596/yr we get $300k liability, $300k

Our quote from NBOA (they use CHUBB insurance) is $596/yr for $58,000 Property Damage Covered (Agreed Value) $870 ded, $300k liability, $5000 medical payments, $300k uninsured boater, $3500 trailer, $2500 personal property, $1000 per incident emergency towing ($35/yr membership for 24/7 towing and an additional $1000 per incident with membership). $2900 named storm deductible.

We didn't get quoted anything close to this coverage by Geico and they wanted $1300/yr with only $100k liability and uninsured boaters (Agreed Value). Even United Marine is $1100/yr with only $100k liability and uninsured boater coverage with an Agreed Value policy. Skisafe was also over $1000/yr and they exclude theft, which seems crazy to me. Tried our homeowners insurance but they do not offer boat insurance. I also checked the exclusions with NBOA and there's nothing about it has to be in our possession or on the water. Seems like pretty good overall coverage.

I would not be able to sleep with liability under 1 million and I sleep a lot better with 2 million liability.

 

[HangOutdoors]

Since we are talking about limits and mitigation, there are a couple of things I would like to point out.

1) I also have a Living Trust and everything that I own is in it and I am the executor of course, EXCEPT for my vehicles and the boat. I have those in my name. Basically if something happens and I get sued, they can't really take anything but what the insurance will pay out directly or through court. All my other assets are shielded in the trust. Now they could get a judgement against me for more than the insurance, but I could file bankruptcy and still all bank accounts, assets, house and possessions will be protected.

With that being said......

2) I carry high coverage, because it isn't always about me. If I do hurt someone, I want to make sure that they can get the funds that are needed from my insurance company to help them through and take care of their medical bills and other things. Of course that would be dependent on what the insurance company does as well as what an outcome of a lawsuit would be. BUT if I had minimal coverage and I hurt someone whom will be forever changed for life I can't live with that. So somewhere, internally, I try to do the best for my family as well as others if I do cause an accident.

 

[haolegirl70]

Sounds pretty decent. The only concern I would have, personally, is $300k would be very light for me. Something happens and you inadvertently run over people/kids in the water, with a lot of medical bills, that is not going to be enough and if they sue for beyond, everything you have could be jeopardized. God forbid someone can prove you were negligent and should of known, etc. etc. (hate the court system and attorneys). But that is a personal choice, each individual has to make. Of course you may never have an accident. Personally I carry much more, the increase was negligible.

Edit: Is it 100k/300k liability or 300k/600k, or something else. The first number is per person, the second is multiple people per incident. Which if you lose control and go through a swimming area, or lose control and crash through another boat at speed, would happen, as an example. As you can imagine a 100/300 if you hurt one person, and they sue, Medical can eat that 100k up very quickly so they would try and get a lot money.

It's 100k/300k. I don't know if boat insurance works the same but we have a friend in a law suit right now where she's suing the guy who hit her. Totaled the car, medical costs and the attorney has told her that the settlement will be limited to what the insurance coverage is so nothing will come out of the other guys pocket other than maybe an increased insurance premium. She's basically suing the insurance company, not him personally. Granted, there are always the situations where you have to go to court but those are pretty rare. Most are settled well before that. So, I'm not too worried about it but let's hope I don't eat those words.

 

[haolegirl70]

I would not be able to sleep with liability under 1 million and I sleep a lot better with 2 million liability.

That's a lot. Most companies quote $100k liability so I was pretty happy with $300k. We have more of a chance of having a car wreck than a boat collision simply by how much time we spend in a car vs a boat and our liability isn't nearly that high for the car and hasn't been an issue yet so just going to hope it never is (all fingers crossed).

 

[HangOutdoors]

the attorney has told her that the settlement will be limited to what the insurance coverage is so nothing will come out of the other guys pocket

Yes that is what usually happens, but the primary reason for that is that the Attorney's don't really want to spend the effort going after the individual if they don't have much. It is easier for them to go after the insurance company, get a settlement as soon as possible and move on. With that being said I have seen multi million dollar awards for car accidents, where they take everything the insurance companies give plus whatever they can get from the individual - where usually the individual actually has things or liquidity.

If someone hit me and was negligent or did it intentionally and I couldn't work for life and had 100's of thousands of dollars in medical bills and all they had was a 100k policy, I would be damn sure suing them for everything that they had and we could find. Because of their negligence my family would suffer irreparable harm.

 

[tdonoughue]

Not completely accurate, @HangOutdoors : it is not that the attorneys don't want to spend the effort. It is that most state constitutions exempt most personal assets from judgement collection.

For example, in many states, any vehicle you take to your place of employment is exempt. Your homestead is exempt. Some amount (it was $50k here in Texas) of assets in your home is exempt. Tools of your trade are exempt. Retirement savings are exempt. The list goes on and on (and varies by state). The bottom line is that most people are judgement proof, even if they don't have a trust. Unless you find someone who has a valuable boat (you can get that, after the lienholder) or a second home (both of which is pretty rare in the general populace), there is simply nothing there to get. Attorneys know that and do not want to spend their time for zero gain for them and their clients.

 

[HangOutdoors]

@tdonoughue I see where you are coming from. I do not know the laws in each state nor do I profess to know much about any unless directed by counsel. I do know, first hand that if it was proven negligence, then they can try and come get it. That is the key. What that means I guess is up to interpretation and the courts. When my brother was killed by a wealthy driver who was under the influence, the insurance company paid out 200k and the driver paid out another 400k of the additional 800k out of his personal assets/ funds before going bankrupt where specifically it came from was not furnished. Didn't spend one day locked up about it. Still a sore spot, but this was some years ago. Additionally, I have attorneys that direct me in what I should and should not have and how things work, they could be full of it of course, but at their suggestion and to decrease liability, trusts were set up to protect assets. In the event of a situation, they are going to be the ones whom have to deal with it all. Of course this is the primary reason for a Trust is to shield your assets and for continuity. Otherwise they wouldn't have as much innate value.

The one caveat is that a trust can be pierced if it was used intentionally to shield assets in conjunction with an intentional crime. Tax Evasion, Killing your partner/spouse, etc., etc. So they are not 100% secure. At least so I am told.

If there is nothing to get, there is nothing to get of course. BUT your wages and future wages can be attached to. Happens all the time. If I recall, I believe that Max is 25%, and this can go on for many many years.

If there were not these Gotchya's then everyone should just carry minimal liability insurance because their personal assets cannot be touched, or for that matter why carry any at all.

Whether or not the Attorney's for the Plaintiff are going go down these additional paths is another thing.

 

[tdonoughue]

Very sorry to hear about your brother. Horrible way to learn about things like this--to be in the middle of them. But I am sorry.

Civil liability (paying money--where insurance comes in) is different from criminal liability (getting locked up). Whole different set of issues there. Trusts do have their place and there are many factors at play in using them (taxes, estate planning, liability shielding, etc.). That is why you are wise to have the lawyers recommend and set that up for you. Some people try to do it themselves with tragic consequences.... Negligence does not let you get around the exclusions from judgement collection. Intentional conduct may in certain circumstances. However, this is why most states have minimum liability insurance requirements to drive a car. If you have most people's stuff exempt from collection, you leave those harmed by negligence without remedy. Insurance makes sure that everyone can pay something (now, we can debate if it is enough or if the government should be telling us how much that should be, etc.--that is for another day and place).

Insurance provides an additional, often unappreciated benefit: defense. If you are sued (civil court), insurance will pay for a lawyer for you. Frequently that benefit is far more than the underlying liability that the insurance will cover. Legal fees can be pricey.

We are agreed, however, that having adequate insurance for your situation is important. Boats can cause a lot of damage. If you don't have a plan to cover your potential liability, you can make a bad situation worse for yourself and for whoever else is involved.

 

[sunbyrned]

Doesn't your homeowners company offer boat insurance? I insure my house through AAA, my vehicles and my boat and get discounts on all of them. Boat is now $459 per year for dollar amount/replacement value which can be much higher than what you owe. Basically on my boat that is the price of a new AR210 in the current model year. Also I have 10k of riders now on it for gear, mods, additions, fishing equipment and anything else for the boat including watersports equipment. Finally I have $500,000 liability in case of accident.

Good suggestion @HangOutdoors. My premium went up by $100 with SkiSafe so I tried my home insurance company. The premium went down by $150.!!

 

[HangOutdoors]

Good suggestion @HangOutdoors. My premium went up by $100 with SkiSafe so I tried my home insurance company. The premium went down by $150.!!

Fantastic!

 

[HangOutdoors]

Good suggestion @HangOutdoors. My premium went up by $100 with SkiSafe so I tried my home insurance company. The premium went down by $150.!!

That is a delta of $250 per month..... could be a good portion of a new boat payment

 

[sunbyrned]

That is a delta of $250 per month..... could be a good portion of a new boat payment

I obviously used the wrong term “premium”. What I meant was my total cost went down by $150. Sorry! That won’t get me a new boat unfortunately. Ha!