Jet Spray and Tubing

[topherbd16]

Two issues I'm having when towing tubers.
-Rope is mostly underwater
-Jet spray makes it annoying for those tubing.. I've gone to 70' and still they are sprayed and wear goggles to tube.

My '18 212X has a very low tow point connection for tubing, maybe 6" above the lowest rear deck (below rear seating area). I don't attach to the wake tower, even though I see it by others quite a bit. I'd hate to crack my hull or tower.

Those with higher tow points and/or I/O props don't have these issues.

Buying the Booster Ball is an option for the rope being higher and out of the water... but it's one more thing to lug around my prop friends don't need.
How do you reduce jet spray? Is the Thrust Vector Wake the only option?

This just seems to be fundamental problems w/ this boat. Tow point is too low and Jet boats have spray.

Yes, I'm frustrated and looking at other boats, but not giving up just yet if I can find a solution that doesn't take so much time each trip out or cost a ton of $.

However, if you really want an '18 212 w/ <70 hours, Wakebooster, upgraded to 31 AGM batteries, additional ballast and tsunami pump... let me know. I'm kinda serious.

 

[HangOutdoors]

Ball isn't worth it for me. I have one used it twice it sits in the garage. Wish I could sell it. Gets hung up on wash alot.

I tow from tower. No issues. Also I use 70' 4k rope with 5' 4k Bungee Extension. No spray hitting riders in the face. 25+ outings, all I do is tow the kids and their friends around the lakes all day, and no issues, tower doesn't even creak. From a small tube to a 3 person Big Mable HD.

 

[biffdotorg]

Our friends with an 18' Four Winns, had to use booster balls as well, since the tow point was so low. That I/O had tons of low end grunt and was a blast to tube behind, but we had to use booster balls to keep the rope up.

Since you don't want to use the tower, then you may want to go down the booster ball route as well. But understand if the spray your tubers are experiencing is from the rope or the jetspray. If it's the jetspray, then yes, longer rope or TV-Wake are the best options. If it's from the rope, then booster ball or tower towing is the best option.

I shared this video on a similar thread in the 190 series threads. It was appreciated but not well received as they felt my experience with a twin engine boat does not apply to a single engine boat. It's a fair concern, but what the video points out is the lack of spray 50' out at tubing and wake boarding speeds. 18-25mph. If your spray is coming from the jets, then consider TV-Wake.

I was doing some beta testing for Will at JetBoat Pilot of the new 24' Jetwash deflector. And shot some footage without the deflector, and just the TV-wakes installed. I think this is a feature that is downplayed. As most of us have figured out how to avoid spray with high tow points or booster balls. But my "self proclaimed" teenage pro tubers say the lack of spray after the TV-wakes were installed is very noticeable and appreciated. There is no other hardware device on the market that I know of that cuts the spray from the jets.

One last point, less bow weight, and more stern weight does point the jet nozzles down. Anyone that has buzzed around with a bow full of guests will agree, that they see more spray, and hear their engines more. So you can move some weight to the back, and try again as it does matter.

Hit me up with questions. Enjoy!

 

[AncientCanoe]

Tow from the tower plenty do it. I've only been pulled on a tube once behind my AR210 boat. Not that I really have much desire to, plus the law without a mirror is the spotter must be 13 years old. All my kids are under that. We had some other adults on board and I jumped on the tube. I think our rope is 60'. I didn't find it that bad, but when I tubed when I was younger my dad would toss us around pretty good so my memory of tubing wasn't a smooth cruise or anything. Toss them outside the wake then you don't have jet spray, or just graduate them another water sport. I'd hate to be selling a boat over tubing unless you have other complaints.

 

[topherbd16]

Ball isn't worth it for me. I have one used it twice it sits in the garage. Wish I could sell it. Gets hung up on wash alot.

I tow from tower. No issues. Also I use 70' 4k rope with 5' 4k Bungee Extension. No spray hitting riders in the face. 25+ outings, all I do is tow the kids and their friends around the lakes all day, and no issues, tower doesn't even creak. From a small tube to a 3 person Big Mable HD.

As an engineer for a different Japanese company than Yamaha, I cringe at no knowing what Yamaha designed the tower for. When wakeboarding and hitting a wall of water the rope comes out of my hand. When tubing and hitting a wall of water that load goes from the tube to the tower, probably 10x that of a wakeboarder or more. That torque is huge. I understand some aren't having issues so maybe I'll give it a try! Glad you mentioned the ball doesn't work well... I'd hate to have another big item taking up room in the boat.

 

[topherbd16]

Our friends with an 18' Four Winns, had to use booster balls as well, since the tow point was so low. That I/O had tons of low end grunt and was a blast to tube behind, but we had to use booster balls to keep the rope up.

Since you don't want to use the tower, then you may want to go down the booster ball route as well. But understand if the spray your tubers are experiencing is from the rope or the jetspray. If it's the jetspray, then yes, longer rope or TV-Wake are the best options. If it's from the rope, then booster ball or tower towing is the best option.

I shared this video on a similar thread in the 190 series threads. It was appreciated but not well received as they felt my experience with a twin engine boat does not apply to a single engine boat. It's a fair concern, but what the video points out is the lack of spray 50' out at tubing and wake boarding speeds. 18-25mph. If your spray is coming from the jets, then consider TV-Wake.

I was doing some beta testing for Will at JetBoat Pilot of the new 24' Jetwash deflector. And shot some footage without the deflector, and just the TV-wakes installed. I think this is a feature that is downplayed. As most of us have figured out how to avoid spray with high tow points or booster balls. But my "self proclaimed" teenage pro tubers say the lack of spray after the TV-wakes were installed is very noticeable and appreciated. There is no other hardware device on the market that I know of that cuts the spray from the jets.

One last point, less bow weight, and more stern weight does point the jet nozzles down. Anyone that has buzzed around with a bow full of guests will agree, that they see more spray, and hear their engines more. So you can move some weight to the back, and try again as it does matter.

Hit me up with questions. Enjoy!

I may just have to order the TV-Ws... but seems it keeps evolving. I have a Wakebooster for surfing so need to be careful on how I set up for surfing

 

[topherbd16]

Tow from the tower plenty do it. I've only been pulled on a tube once behind my AR210 boat. Not that I really have much desire to, plus the law without a mirror is the spotter must be 13 years old. All my kids are under that. We had some other adults on board and I jumped on the tube. I think our rope is 60'. I didn't find it that bad, but when I tubed when I was younger my dad would toss us around pretty good so my memory of tubing wasn't a smooth cruise or anything. Toss them outside the wake then you don't have jet spray, or just graduate them another water sport. I'd hate to be selling a boat over tubing unless you have other complaints.

My kids tube, surf and wakeboard. They won't give up tubing for years I'm sure. When they bring friends that can't surf or wakeboard, they all have tubing wars to see who can stay on the longest. Quite fun.
It's a great boat minus the jet spray, low tow point and work I need to do to get a good surf wave (bolt on wakebooser and add more ballast on top of stock ballast to surf ropless). So, I am considering a differnt boat that is not a jet (supra, moomba, axis, mastercraft, centurion, etc etc). TBD...

 

[Enduro900]

It sounds like you already use the 70’ rope that hangoutdoors suggested, maybe also add the 5 foot bungee extension too that he uses??

I’m on the fence what to buy next spring (1st boat in 20 years). We will probably tube mostly but also want the option to learn to surf, so I keep leaning towards a jet (wife also likes the idea of no props). BUT it seems there are a lot of drawbacks to jets including what you are experiencing with something as simple as a day out tubing.

I wonder if the “surfpoint” nozzle setting is contributing to your issue? I also dont understand why they dont direct the jets downward a little more, it seems like that would also push the bow down a little bit, kind of like a trim-tab effect and help with the jet wash and maybe better in the chop. It would probably shave a few mph off the top but most people don’t run 50mph+ anyway. Or why someone hasn’t come out with a downward shaper/add-on to direct the jet downward when tubing.......

 

[biffdotorg]

do you tube with your ballast filled? Seriously, give it a shot. Not only should it put your jets down in the water further, but there will be a bit more wake for the tubers.

I mentioned in my video, I had 400lbs in the locker. The kids love it, and it looks bigger from the tube than from the boat.

As far as towing from the tower, do what "you" feel comfortable with. It's widely contested on here as the warning stickers are truly CYA by Yamaha and the MFG of the tower. The amount of folks that fear damage is great, the amount that have experienced actual damage from tubing from the tower is very few. And those that say a subbed tube will cause the damage, have no idea how to tow a tube, as that tube will never sub if properly inflated and towed at a proper speed. The only time that happens is putting around waiting for the kids to take a leak in the lake.

So again, do what "you" are comfortable with and take our experience with a grain of salt. As the fact that I have towed 4-person tubes, or multiple 2-person tubes at the same time from our tower will never make you feel more comfortable when the next guy makes up a story about a tube flipping a Yamaha. Or the guy on facebook that shows his tower tow point bent over and blames it on tubing, when it has obvious gouges from the bridge he hit with it.

You will figure out what works. But don't spend money if you don't have to. Good luck.

 

[biffdotorg]

Or why someone hasn’t come out with a downward shaper/add-on to direct the jet downward when tubing.......

Like this?

 

[Enduro900]

Like this?

Isn’t that a “floating system”? (Spring loaded?) With the water pressure coming out of these nozzles if it cuts down the spray that would be great. Does it? If so by how much?

Your video doesn’t explain any decrease or show any type of comparison. It would be great if someone could shoot a GoPro from the tuber prospective with and without to see the actual “end of rope” results.......

A mechanical system with some type of adjustment would be great. Looking at your pictures a longer deflector with more of a downward arc (to the end of the fangs??) could work. But for as long as these boats have been on the market, and for how many people tube (over anything else) there should be a solution to this problem other than “just push the tuber to the outside”

Maybe topherbd16 this is your solution? A few more hundreds is cheaper than the thousands in depreciation and the thousands more (tends of thousands??) for a different boat.......

Also do you run a full rear ballast when tubing? That seems like it would also direct the nozzles downward a little more......but again isnt the “surf-point a tow-in, slight directed-up of the nozzles?

Truth be told I am torn on this subject.....part of me doesn’t want topherbd16 to solve this, I instead want to buy your boat......but the other part of me wants to tube without the “sandblaster effect” so I might look elsewhere myself

 

[biffdotorg]

Isn’t that a “floating system”? (Spring loaded?) With the water pressure coming out of these nozzles if it cuts down the spray that would be great. Does it? If so by how much?

Your video doesn’t explain any decrease or show any type of comparison. It would be great if someone could shoot a GoPro from the tuber prospective with and without to see the actual “end of rope” results.......

Knocking the spray down, does not require a fixed deflector or adjustable nozzle. That is Trim, and what we find on the waverunners. That changes the attitude of the boats hull, and that is not what you want. What you want is to knock down spray, and that is what the TV-wake is doing. There is no need for more pressure, as it has been tested for a combination of uses. Spray at speed, and surf wave at surf speeds. The side benefit is great steering. So if you have no fins at all now, you also benefit from slow speed steering improvement. I'm not here to sell them, just share my experience.

The comparison is what you see from your boat. Once this is installed, I am unable to shoot a comparison. But your other suggestion of weight helped greatly for us. But with a long enough rope, the kids never complained of spray, it's really a non issue at that length and from the tower.

But, for the sake of comparison, check out Will's video from the tube. Note, that there is minimal spray on the camera lens. I guess that is a pretty good representation. Also note, this is from an AR, and they are towing from the low tow point

 

[Enduro900]

The comparison is what you see from your boat. Once this is installed, I am unable to shoot a comparison. But your other suggestion of weight helped greatly for us. But with a long enough rope, the kids never complained of spray, it's really a non issue at that length and from the tower.

But, for the sake of comparison, check out Will's video from the tube. Note, that there is minimal spray on the camera lens. I guess that is a pretty good representation. Also note, this is from an AR, and they are towing from the low tow point

Thanks for replying, I have stumbled upon this video in the past. Not trying to be picky but that style of tube the riders are much higher up out of the water, and although I dont spend much time on the water (just a few outings a season) I’ve never seen that type of tube being used on any of the lakes we frequent.

Even so, in his video there seems to be a lot of jetwash/spray coming up (most of it was shot from the boat so again hard to get a tuber perspective).

If I was topherbd16 I would add the fangs discussed here, add the 5ft bungee, add rear ballast while tubing, and give a full report (probably next season??)......or sell me the boat in the spring.....

 

[biffdotorg]

The tube has nothing to do with the amount of spray coming from the boat. The cam is mounted about head height, and there isn't a drop on the lens. That was the point of them using that tube, was to get the camera height just about perfect. Not to show what the tube does.

I'm not sure what you are asking for anymore. As those tubing, expect to get wet. And if that is not dry enough, then I would strongly suggest not tubing. I'm not saying that to be a dick either. How old are your tubers? 6? As any kid between 9-19 expects some spray, that's they joy of tubing as they cross the wake.

After tubing behind two tower jet boats for the past decade, we have come to believe that the jet boat is an ideal tubing platform. Out of the hole power, jetspray and centralized tow point really gives a great tubing experience. Air, waves, spray. I always joked that tubing is legal child abuse.

 

[Enduro900]

Getting wet tubing is different than getting “sandblasted” in the face with jet spray.......which seems to be a complaint of some jet owners.....please correct me if I am wrong?

Btw this isnt my thread, this is the thread of a guy that invested a tremendous amount into a boat that he finds less than satifactory when it comes to tubing......so he is asking for suggestions or it seems he is going to get something else that will do a better job of not spraying people with jet spray.....or again correct me if I am wrong. I am assuming this guy has pulled tubers behind other boats in his life and finds an issue at how his current boat performs.......

The last point I had was to take your suggestions, hangoutdoors, using rear ballast (if he is not currently) and I suggested spending a few hundred more on the fags before throwing in the towel.....

Btw, there is not a clear consensus on these add-on products (from what I’ve read in a bunch of threads).......so I appreciate your input.

 

[biffdotorg]

All good, i'm glad you didn't take my tone wrong. As this is productive. Many have not considered any devices other than the ball for spray reduction. As most are so over concerned with surfing. And they only talk about the surf performance of the TV-W. We honestly do not surf much, even though I bought them. It's such a selfish sport, as I spend so much time filling bags, situating the boat for one person at a time to enjoy it. Then redo it all to allow someone else to do it on the other side. I feel guilty asking to go surfing to the point that I have surfed behind our boat one time this summer. (but I digress)

What we have found is tubing with 4 people at a time, with 2-three person tubes is a load of fun, and everyone enjoys it.

The OP also has a 212x, so dropping in some weight will be a flick of a button for him. Anyone else with a non x model, should literally empty the bow of people, and move them to the rear. I really fell that pointing the bow up and dropping the nozzles will be a very cheap improvement.

Good luck,

 

[topherbd16]

All interesting points and don't worry about bringing your own questions in to this thread. I appreciate any and all discussion points.

I honestly have not tried ballast when tubing. Will do for sure. But this will lower the tow point of the rope making rope sink worse in the wake. Which means I should try towing from the tower... all valid points about it being OK if I tow properly.

I am interested in TVWs for jet spray reduction and surfing. But I've seen some reviews where wakebooster gets a bigger wave than TVWs. I'm happy w/ the wakebooster wave (except when I look over and see someone surfing behind an Axis, Centurion, Supra, etc. ), but I can't use the Wakebooster and TVW in combo (side force on one TVW is probably no good, but honestly nobody has done a real performance and durability experiment that I've seen). So, I'm still a bit torn.

Yes, the right combo/plug n play pkg is 20~30k more (used 2019 Axis22 for example) so I'm really considering my options as my girls remind me about sports, turning 16 soon, college, wedding and who knows what else that I'll be spending money on.

If someone gave my 55k for my boat w/ <70 hours that comes with w/ Wakebooster, additional 1000 lb Sumo bag and Tsunami pump, upgraded dual Group 31 AGM batteries (stock is G24 lead acid), Stoltz roller & G2 Boat Buckles on trailer.... I'd probably let it go.

 

[topherbd16]

All good, i'm glad you didn't take my tone wrong. As this is productive. Many have not considered any devices other than the ball for spray reduction. As most are so over concerned with surfing. And they only talk about the surf performance of the TV-W. We honestly do not surf much, even though I bought them. It's such a selfish sport, as I spend so much time filling bags, situating the boat for one person at a time to enjoy it. Then redo it all to allow someone else to do it on the other side. I feel guilty asking to go surfing to the point that I have surfed behind out boat one time this summer. (but I digress)

What we have found is tubing with 4 people at a time, with 2-three person tubes is a load of fun, and everyone enjoys it.

The OP also has a 212x, so dropping in some weight will be a flick of a button for him. Anyone else with a non x model, should literally empty the bow of people, and move them to the rear. I really fell that pointing the bow up and dropping the nozzles will be a very cheap improvement.

Good luck,

I have the same feeling when surfing. "Pardon me while I fill this bag, bolt on the Wakebooster to MY goofy side...." etc etc while we have to redo it for normal riders. First world problems... I want just a few switches to flip for all tanks and surf tabs/boosters and not have to climb all over the boat asking people to move out of the way.

 

[HangOutdoors]

That is the Crux of the whole thing. It would be great to have a do it all boat at a digestible price point with minimal set up effort. Not sure if it exists. Fishing, Tubing, Cruising around at 50, a Wave Tractor, No Prop, Large Swim Deck, etc. etc. I guess you just go to either one end or the other end and make it work for the outliers.

 

[biffdotorg]

I would agree with that. And surfing or not, I still feel like we have the swiss army knife with this 242LS. We spent a day on our friends Mastercraft NXT20 a few years back. It was what got my wife to green light a new boat.

As the NXT20 is their entry level surf boat. They advertise $55K all day (Plus trailer, plus this, plus that etc) But my wife thought that was cool. But I asked her to trust me that I would buy a more versatile boat that we may be able to surf.

So a few weeks ago, we got another day on their NXT. And my wife realized (with 10 people on board) that it was a cool wake boat, but ours was way more comfortable for 10 people, with way more room, easier access to water etc. The list went on and on why she loved our boat. Nope, it won't surf like that NXT, but I'm fine with that.