Maiden Voyage AR250 | Port engine wont shut off

[1WetBoat]

Hi Folks,

Here is an interesting issue that i haven't seen or heard before on this forum. Used the search function but couldn't find anything similar.

New AR250, picked up in late Dec, water testing went well. Got her home, ran it at home on the hose to make sure there wasn't anything wrong with either engine or electronics etc..

Finally took her out today and ran flawless during break in. Did the 5/30/60 break in periods. Rode for a few more hours with no issues at all. Got to a nearby small island, BCI for the locals, and anchored just offshore. Too cold to get in the water but figured lets anchor to have lunch. After making sure anchor was secure turned keys to shut off both engines. Starboard engine shutdown normal, but Port engine didn't. Thought that was odd and wiggled key without bumping starter again to make sure the switch wasn't bad. No difference, engine stayed on even with both keys out and screen off. Put keys back in and turned on screen and it showed port engine at idle rpms. Turned keys off again and nothing, engine still on, pulled safety lanyard and engine still on. Shut down both battery switches and engine still runs, a little rough, but still runs. Opened rear clean out hatch to activate the safety switches and it made no difference. I know the safety lanyard works because I tested it at home trying to start it without it clipped in and neither engine would start.

Opened engine hatch and verified throttle, cables, fuses etc.. nothing was loose. Was concerned that if I did manage to shut it off it wouldn't start again so we packed up and headed back to dock. Was at the end of our trip anyway so no big deal. No engine codes at all during the whole trip.

Back at the dock loaded boat on trailer and port engine still wouldn't shut off. I cant pull it out of the water this way so I tried everything again and engine still wont shut off, ended up pulling the main harness from the ECU, engine stopped right away. Got the boat home, both engines started normal and was able to flush both engines. Starboard engine had no issues but again, port engine wouldn't shutoff at home out of the water. Took advantage of better settings and verified all fuses, harness, cabling, battery etc.. nothing out of the ordinary that i could see. Pulled main harness and engine shut off. I inspected as best as I could for bent pins, corrosion etc. and found nothing. Mind you, engine ran fine prior to this first voyage.

I've heard of engines not starting due to faulty switches, but not shutting off? I'm going with bad ECU causing this issue. Will be calling the dealer in the AM to have them check it out.

 

[Bluewater272]

Yeesh, that’s no bueno. Don’t think I’ve ever read about that here, crazy.

 

[haknslash]

Never heard of that. Did you try the battery switch to kill power? That’s crazy the clean out hatch switch didn’t even kill it as that could be real dangerous like sticking your arm in a blender!! I suspect you have a bad ignition key. Hopefully your dealer can find the cause.

 

[tdonoughue]

Yes, he said he did (it ran rough, but kept running).

I haven't heard of such a thing! That is a major safety issue, for each of the lanyard and the hatch not working, as well as for the key not working. Run, don't walk, back to the dealer... And I would obviously not take that out again until fixed.

 

[haknslash]

Ah didn’t catch he tried the switch. I wonder why it would run rough? Hopefully not a bad ecu but thankfully you got warranty to let them deal with it.

 

[tdonoughue]

Magneto would be supplying the only electrical to the engine at that point. I can only assume that it produces barely enough to run the engine, so caused some missing...

 

[marcham]

Bad ecu? Very rare, they are designed to last a long time, but still possible. Can you swap left and right and see if the fault transfers?

 

[1WetBoat]

Bad ecu? Very rare, they are designed to last a long time, but still possible. Can you swap left and right and see if the fault transfers?

I thought about swapping them, but then figured I don't want to give Yamaha a reason for denying a claim. I dont want them to say "It looks like these were removed and moved around etc.."

 

[tdonoughue]

Plus (and I am not sure here), I think the ECU is paired to the engine? At any rate, not a simple swap.

This is serious enough I would not do ANYTHING to try to fix this yourself. Drop that puppy right back on the dealer's lap. Document everything. Who you talked to, what you told them, what they said. Dates and times.

 

[1WetBoat]

Plus (and I am not sure here), I think the ECU is paired to the engine? At any rate, not a simple swap.

This is serious enough I would not do ANYTHING to try to fix this yourself. Drop that puppy right back on the dealer's lap. Document everything. Who you talked to, what you told them, what they said. Dates and times.

Definitely, not a simple swap. Already spoke to the service dept at the dealer. Taking it in today and they will take a look at it and get Yamaha involved. I let them know that not only is this an inconvenience to me with a brand new boat but more important than that, a major safety issue if you cant shut off an engine and none of the backup safety switches could disable the engine either.

Will update with what they find. I'm guessing either bad harness or bad ECU.

 

[Beachbummer]

This is from my experience on 230, but so far it has matched with 240s too...

The mechanism to turn the engine off is very simple, there is a wire that is set to ground, and when that happens the engine kills all spark and dies.

Did you try opening the clean out hatch? Did you try the Kill switch?

The wire is normally grounded at one of 3 spots...At key ignition (to power off normally with the ley), at dead man kill switch (so it shuts off when the switch is pulled), and at the clean out hatch switch (so it shuts off if you open the clean out). It could be that the is a fault in the feeding of ground to the circuit, or in the wires going back to ECU, but the mechanism itself is somewhat simple. Ground to ECU

I'm not sure how much the wiring is like the other boats, but it's the White and Black wires on the 230s (Diagram I have)

Black is ground in this circuit, and White is signal to ECU that when ground, tells the ECU to stop ignition. (Engine will DIE and not restart while this white cable has a ground signal on it.)

Best of Luck!

(I'm suggesting observation only, not that you try to modify anything yourself, but at the same time if you come across a loose connection or cable that needs to be pushed in to save you the pain of a dealer visit, so be it)

 

[tdonoughue]

Yes, he did all of that. That is why this is such a serious issue. None of it worked (neither kill switch set, nor the key).

 

[Beachbummer]

What's weirdest is the engine did not start without the lanyard, but did not shut off, Is that right? That is a weird one indeed. Perhaps the connection became loose during the last trip? Best of Luck, but dealer visit is usually 10 hours of your life, so a good inspection knowing what wire does what is always my humble first suggestion.

 

[anmut]

You've taken it back to the dealership, which is good. VERY strange that the two safety switches (hatch and lanyard) did nothing. I have seen an overheated ICE engine in a Honda Civic "diesel" from being too hot after the key was taken out, but that doesn't sound like the issue here.

I would say you're fairly lucky that you had the issue present itself before the bum rush of boating season happens!

 

[1WetBoat]

What's weirdest is the engine did not start without the lanyard, but did not shut off, Is that right? That is a weird one indeed. Perhaps the connection became loose during the last trip? Best of Luck, but dealer visit is usually 10 hours of your life, so a good inspection knowing what wire does what is always my humble first suggestion.

Yeah, i checked the lanyard, the clean out plug hatch etc.. with the dealer when picking it up. Engines started normal and shut off normal several times with the dealer.
Prior to going out this past weekend I did a test run in my drive way while on the hose and had no issues. During my pre-launch check I started each engine also and they shut off with no issues.

 

[anmut]

Yeah, i checked the lanyard, the clean out plug hatch etc.. with the dealer when picking it up. Engines started normal and shut off normal several times with the dealer.
Prior to going out this past weekend I did a test run in my drive way while on the hose and had no issues. During my pre-launch check I started each engine also and they shut off with no issues.

I would get it on video next time so you would have proof. Still pretty weird that two kill switches don't actually kill the engine.

 

[1WetBoat]

You've taken it back to the dealership, which is good. VERY strange that the two safety switches (hatch and lanyard) did nothing. I have seen an overheated ICE engine in a Honda Civic "diesel" from being too hot after the key was taken out, but that doesn't sound like the issue here.

I would say you're fairly lucky that you had the issue present itself before the bum rush of boating season happens!

Definitely not "dieseling", but that thought did cross my mind and the engine felt the same temp as the other one and no overheat warnings came on. Water temp was 65 the whole time. I verified water was coming out of both pissers just in case.

That is exactly the reason i wanted a shakeup run prior to the full boating season starting up down here. Other than that engine issue everything else was flawless.

 

[Beachbummer]

I think no switches working actually makes the problem easier to diagnose. Either there is ground present and the ECU is not shutting off (I bet this is not it) or the ground wire/connector/harness feeding ground to the circuit is not working as expected and there is no ground for the switches to feed. Hopefully to a competent electrical troubleshooter this will be a quick job.

 

[1WetBoat]

I would get it on video next time so you would have proof. Still pretty weird that two kill switches don't actually kill the engine.

It's funny because we were taking pics and video pretty much the whole trip. But when this happened we all kind of freaked out and the boat went silent while figuring it out, lol.

 

[1WetBoat]

I think no switches working actually makes the problem easier to diagnose. Either there is ground present and the ECU is not shutting off (I bet this is not it) or the ground wire/connector/harness feeding ground to the circuit is not working as expected and there is no ground for the switches to feed. Hopefully to a competent electrical troubleshooter this will be a quick job.

Based on my description the techs said it could be a ground issue at the key switch itself or ground issue at the harness. Will know more this week.