Milky/Foamy oil in a 2008 AR210 with 825 hours

[twentiesforever]

In for the verdict.

 

[cdave2000]

Update: In-between constant thunderstorms I was able to check a few things today.
I checked under the rubber boots on the valve cover while the engine was running in the water and it looks normal. I've inspected the block under the exhaust manifold where the coolant hoses were to see if I can find dripping. I found that it is leaking in that spot, but it looks like the head gasket. The new compression gauge that I bought specifically for this doesn't have a fitting for the small spark plugs, so I will have to do a compression check another day. However spark plug number three is wet and looks different than the other plugs. The white ceramic is a brownish/red color.
Take a look at the photos and tell me what you guys think.

 

[txav8r]

Number 3 plug is always suspect on the MR-1, it actually looks normal. Oil on it is another thing, but a dirty sooted plug is normal on that plug because the #3 exhaust valve seems to remain open when you stop the engine, allowing moisture to backtrack to the #3 cylinder and plug.

 

[cdave2000]

Number 3 plug is always suspect on the MR-1, it actually looks normal. Oil on it is another thing, but a dirty sooted plug is normal on that plug because the #3 exhaust valve seems to remain open when you stop the engine, allowing moisture to backtrack to the #3 cylinder and plug.

The plug was pulled about 5 minutes after running for about 10 minutes, it was still warm/hot. There was considerable moisture on it and a droplet even spanned the electrode gap in the last photo. Is that much moisture typical?

 

[cybuch]

I am going to say, its a cracked block. See if you can't get your cell phone down there to snap a picture of the hose area where the water is.

 

[cdave2000]

I am going to say, its a cracked block. See if you can't get your cell phone down there to snap a picture of the hose area where the water is.

Yeah, unfortunately it looks like that's what it is. At first I thought from the photo that it was the head gasket because it looked like where the head mates the block, but that seam is actually the crack. The head is above that. I'll take more photos when I get back to the boat.
So what are my options now, find a used motor or get a rebuild?

 

[cybuch]

Yep, those are your options. You could go with SBT in FL and get a rebuild with a 24 month no fault warranty. Or you could call PWC Engine in NY, he builds his own MR1 blocks, he is slow at service, but top notch work for sure.

 

[txav8r]

Or find a comparable jet ski engine on a wrecked jet ski?

 

[txav8r]

The plug was pulled about 5 minutes after running for about 10 minutes, it was still warm/hot. There was considerable moisture on it and a droplet even spanned the electrode gap in the last photo. Is that much moisture typical?

@cybuch and several others that have had head/block/cooling line failures are better equipped to field questions about the water and oil situation. However, the #3 spark plug issue is common to MR-1 engines and has broken off more times than is comfortable to mention. Finding moisture literally on the electrode isn't common, and i think that may be part of the water intrusion issue. It is as I mentioned common for moisture to migrate back into the cylinder from the exhaust after shutting down on that cylinder...but I don't know anyone that said the plug was wet or showed a droplet of water on it. Rust on it as well as rust on the threads of #3 is common. Good luck with this issue and keep us posted.

 

[itsdgm]

Also, there is

Yeah, unfortunately it looks like that's what it is. At first I thought from the photo that it was the head gasket because it looked like where the head mates the block, but that seam is actually the crack. The head is above that. I'll take more photos when I get back to the boat.
So what are my options now, find a used motor or get a rebuild?

Make sure you look at this thread. https://jetboaters.net/threads/2005-ar230-saga-continues-now-i-have-water-in-the-oil.10555/

It has a quite a few pics showing where to look for the most common crack on our type engine. It can be see in the window through the exhaust manifold between the #3 & 4 cylinders. It's starts at the bottom of the rear head bolt on the #3 cylinder and works its way back towards one of the cooling water pipe outlets from the block. It took me quite a while to pinpoint it because it's so tight in there and it's covered up by the exhaust manifold. More than likely it's where yours is at.

Here's a few pics of where mine was.

 

[cdave2000]

Yep, those are your options. You could go with SBT in FL and get a rebuild with a 24 month no fault warranty. Or you could call PWC Engine in NY, he builds his own MR1 blocks, he is slow at service, but top notch work for sure.

Or find a comparable jet ski engine on a wrecked jet ski?

Also, there is


Make sure you look at this thread. https://jetboaters.net/threads/2005-ar230-saga-continues-now-i-have-water-in-the-oil.10555/

It has a quite a few pics showing where to look for the most common crack on our type engine. It can be see in the window through the exhaust manifold between the #3 & 4 cylinders. It's starts at the bottom of the rear head bolt on the #3 cylinder and works its way back towards one of the cooling water pipe outlets from the block. It took me quite a while to pinpoint it because it's so tight in there and it's covered up by the exhaust manifold. More than likely it's where yours is at.

Here's a few pics of where mine was.
View attachment 57845 View attachment 57846 View attachment 57847 View attachment 57848

Yep, that's exactly where my crack is. I've been following that thread you mentioned, lot's of great info shared!

 

[cdave2000]

So SBT is out of the engine I need, but I found an 06 waverunner vx with "low hours". The exterior is rough (never covered), but the ski lives on a lift on a lake nearby. It's fresh water use only. Hopefully I can take a look at it this weekend and run YDS for actual hours and past issues.
It seems to me I would be better off with a swap with an engine that has never been opened up as opposed to a rebuild, right? Plus I would be getting some spare parts. I could then get an upper crankcase and rebuild my old engine and drop it in the waverunner. @itsdgm, you did that right?
Also, if I did the swap with a waverunner, should I keep my ECU (would report 820 hrs on the newer motor), or swap that as well?

 

[Seadeals]

Finding a reasonably priced VX ($3500 or less) makes a lot of sense to me if you have room to store it and the hull is not trashed. With it not trashed, you can rebuild the other engine (even put back in your boat) and then have a working wave runner that you either decide to use, or sell and further reduce the overall repair costs. I found a much smaller crack than @itsdgm and do not have water in #3 yet. Since it was early in the season, a small crack and no visible water in the oil (milkshake), It seemed like a good opportunity to test a repair's longevity. I didn't really have room for the waverunner I found and if The repair even lasts through the summer, it is a win as I could get a new shortblock over the winter. So far it is holding up fine; but you need a new/different block with the water in the cylinder.

 

[Seadeals]

I also want to comment that I strongly believe the cracks are the result of the poor casting line (defect) along that mold part line. I do NOT buy that it is freeze damage based on where my boat has lived and where others with the issue live (FL, CA). If you have a boat with this engine block seemingly between 2006 and 2008, I suggest looking at the block under the exhaust manifold for residue on the block like this:

When the water leaks, it evaporates off the block and leaves the lake minerals behind. It is VERY easy to see. The crack is not. I suggest making it a routine (at least yearly) inspection item -at the end of the season, not the beginning- so you have time to fix it.

 

[itsdgm]

So SBT is out of the engine I need, but I found an 06 waverunner vx with "low hours". The exterior is rough (never covered), but the ski lives on a lift on a lake nearby. It's fresh water use only. Hopefully I can take a look at it this weekend and run YDS for actual hours and past issues.
It seems to me I would be better off with a swap with an engine that has never been opened up as opposed to a rebuild, right? Plus I would be getting some spare parts. I could then get an upper crankcase and rebuild my old engine and drop it in the waverunner. @itsdgm, you did that right?
Also, if I did the swap with a waverunner, should I keep my ECU (would report 820 hrs on the newer motor), or swap that as well?

I did find a good used engine (without ECU, oil cooler and exhaust) and put it in the boat. I haven't lake tested it yet, but so far it fires right up, has great compression and seems to run well.

Also, I found a good used block and am almost finished swapping all my original internal engine parts into the new block. I plan on putting the "original" engine back into the boat sometime this season to verify that both the replacement and rebuilt engines are good to go. Then I'll have a spare engine laying around in case this happens again. But I have been on the lookout for a good used ski with a blown engine to "store" my spare engine and have some fun with. But it seems that there's a lot more engines than hulls out there. I guess everybody smashes the ski and parts them out because the hull damage was too much to repair.

 

[cybuch]

@cdave2000 , thats exactly what I did for the port motor. My port motor had the bad ECU/stuck injector issue and it threw a rod. I bought a 2008 FXHO and pulled the motor out of it and sent my original to PWC Engine for it to be rebuilt. The thought was to put it into the ski and sell it with full disclosure. That didn't happen, the family loved having the ski and the boat, so we now have both. My son tows the ski and I tow the boat. He is only 17 and he is starting to get the hang of backing that short trainer in. He drives a 1997 Mustang Cobra, its quite the spectacle on the ramp.

@itsdgm you have inspired me to make a run at rebuilding my cracked motor. I am going to call PWC Engine and see how much they sell their in-house blocks for. I will leave feedback here when I find out, just in case others are interested.

 

[cdave2000]

@cdave2000 , thats exactly what I did for the port motor. My port motor had the bad ECU/stuck injector issue and it threw a rod. I bought a 2008 FXHO and pulled the motor out of it and sent my original to PWC Engine for it to be rebuilt. The thought was to put it into the ski and sell it with full disclosure. That didn't happen, the family loved having the ski and the boat, so we now have both. My son tows the ski and I tow the boat. He is only 17 and he is starting to get the hang of backing that short trainer in. He drives a 1997 Mustang Cobra, its quite the spectacle on the ramp.

@itsdgm you have inspired me to make a run at rebuilding my cracked motor. I am going to call PWC Engine and see how much they sell their in-house blocks for. I will leave feedback here when I find out, just in case others are interested.

What should I keep on vs remove when I switch engines? I'd like to unhook as little as possible so I'm using as much as possible on the newer engine(exhaust, intake, etc). I literally want to unhook exhaust at the rubber coupling, unhook all wires and hoses, and remove/install the newer engine. Is that realistic or do I need to remove exhaust and the oil cooler so the engine can fit through the opening? I think I read the 210 opening is smaller than the 230 opening. Also I plan to use a tree branch with a c0me-along to pull/place the engines.
I've seen the great write-ups in the FAQ's about pulling the engine and I think I can do it with those guides.
Any tips from those who have done this for someone that has never done this would be greatly appreciated. My biggest concern is finessing the engine out/into the boat. This is definitely out of my comfort zone, but I really want to learn how to do this.

 

[Scottintexas]

We've had a couple of posts on removing the engine, I remember somebody did it without much lifting and used cinder blocks and built a ramp of 2x4's to slide it down to ground level, ITSDGM has a good one where he built his own wooden gantry, buckbuck did it with a fork lift and of course your tree limb will work also, do a couple of searches for those threads,

it may be worth while to find some one with an overhead something or forklift and disconnect everything beforehand (except the mounting bolts) so all they would have to do would be lift it out for you??

 

[itsdgm]

Pulling the engine out of the boat can be done as a complete unit. However, I'm pretty sure pulling the engine out of a ski will require pulling some exhaust and possibly the oil cooler. But I'm guessing at that.

I do have a step by step engine removal for the boat of our vintage (Non ho- 2007 210 series) pm me your email address and I'll sent you a copy.

 

[buckbuck]

The Yamaha service manual was very detailed and provided step by step procedure. I found it worthwhile having it open. You may want to consider getting one.