My wiring setup.. post 1 of 2 (Speakers & AMPS) Trying to make sense of it.

[vxooxv]

Same story as my first post.... spent all day investigating the new to me boats speaker & amp wiring configuration. I quasi understand how this is setup but i have ZERO clue if it's done correctly, has the right equipment or is fully optimized. I've only 'really' cranked it up after I bought the boat on land while motors not running and to be honest, expected more. I can't quantify that other than it just didn't sound like 8 speakers and a sub. Maybe it's because i had the battery selector on both and they are low? Maybe one of the speakers are blown.. something just didn't sound right? Maybe the head unit (EQ) is at factory setting; I didn't really mess with it. Maybe everything is running out of Line out Front? I do know they system is a few + years old and judging from the corroded terminals on the amps everything could stand to be cleaned, reconnected and reorganized.

I don't pretend to understand 'bridged', ohms, volts

If i were going to dump some upgrade money here... should i start with the speakers or the amp(s)? I'd really like a new head unit with a more modern aft control. too)

Diagram of the speaker setup...


My assumption is
-The Aerial tower wiring harness only has 8 wires...that I could see.
-The dual bullets that come with the tower are wired separately (THUS the 8 wires to AMP2)

At first glance...


AMP1 that goes to the SUB. The RCA cable that comes from FRONT line out is split. Each has a line that goes to AMP1 and then to LINE IN REAR on AMP2
INPUT from RCA.


AMP1 OUT to Sub.. I believe bridged?


SUB


RCA's from 'split' going into AMP2 (REAR INPUT) that power the Tower.
RCA's going out of AMP2 AUX to AMP3


Speak wires to tower.. assumption is not bridged or they would be on the top posts?


RCA coming from AMP2 AUX going into AMP3 REAR INPUT
*Only real difference I notice from AMP2 setting is this is set to "FLAT"


Speaker wires going out of AMP3 to 4 cabin speakers. Again assumption is not bridged.


I have no idea what a Capacitor is.. maybe this should have went into the battery post.


JBL deck.. stock?

 

[tdonoughue]

Others probably can help you diagnose why it sounds horrible better than I can. But I can tell you that this all looks approximately fine. The amps seem to be hooked up sensibly. I even agree with the ones you said you thought were bridged and those that were not. The one thing that surprised me (other than the cap--which I think someone else commented upon on another thread) was the Polks in the tower. I don't think that i the best type of speaker for up there, if I recall what @David Analog has said correctly.

 

[David Analog]

A capacitor is a power storage device. So when the demand exceeds the supply, the capacitor can stiffen the voltage for a mere fraction of a second. That's useful for quick transients and short bass hits. But for anything that is a prolonged passage, it does no good. And once the capacitor does its momentary job, the capacitor must also be recharged which becomes another momentary load on the supply (battery & stators). A capacitor cannot raise the voltage above the supply level. It is not a substitute for more battery capacity. It can only prop up the voltage for the briefest of time. A very good capacitor is more of an esoteric addition as a final detail. Nothing about a boat audio system can be interpreted as esoteric. A cheap capacitor is a hoax, and that's a cheap capacitor. A capacitor can be used on a daily driver, such as a car. But when used on a craft that is frequently stored and where the capacitor is completely discharged and rapidly recharged when reconnected to the battery, this eventually damages the capacitor. And then the capacity becomes a liability to the charging system. Get it out of the system right away.

 

[vxooxv]

A capacitor is a power storage device. So when the demand exceeds the supply, the capacitor can stiffen the voltage for a mere fraction of a second. That's useful for quick transients and short bass hits. But for anything that is a prolonged passage, it does no good. And once the capacitor does its momentary job, the capacitor must also be recharged which becomes another momentary load on the supply (battery & stators). A capacitor cannot raise the voltage above the supply level. It is not a substitute for more battery capacity. It can only prop up the voltage for the briefest of time. A very good capacitor is more of an esoteric addition as a final detail. Nothing about a boat audio system can be interpreted as esoteric. A cheap capacitor is a hoax, and that's a cheap capacitor. A capacitor can be used on a daily driver, such as a car. But when used on a craft that is frequently stored and where the capacitor is completely discharged and rapidly recharged when reconnected to the battery, this eventually damages the capacitor. And then the capacity becomes a liability to the charging system. Get it out of the system right away.

NOTED - will be removed when i install the ARC and new buses.

Recommendation on further improvements? Should i be using REAR Line out on the deck? Would that help or not really?
Are the current amps ok? If i'm going to make modest improvements should I begin at the deck/speakers? Or AMP(s) and go from there?

 

[vxooxv]

Well - spent about 2hrs talking to a nice rep in my local crutchfield store. I explained my current setup and finally decided that I want to consolidate amps and update the HU and wired remote. He had zero knowledge around HU's so I'm asking for a recommendation. I keep hearing Fusion and Clarion? As far as amps he recommended the JL M700/5 which is what I ordered - for pickup on Monday. After looking a little closer will I really have enough to drive all 8 Polk's? 4 in cabin and 4 on the tower?? analysis paralysis - especially when I'm audio challenged. someone just tell me what to buy... LoL

My current thinking in priority....

I want to update HU with wired remote. Bluetooth and AirPlay would be awesome.
3 zones (tower, cabin, sub)
Upgrade AMP(s). Having the 3 now takes up massive room. Could be the salesman but he said I'm probably sucking a lot of juice.
Upgrade the 4 Polk's in the dual bullets JL or Wetsounds?- eventually
Upgrade the 4 Polk's on board - eventually

.... My wife says I spend way to much time on these forums.

 

[tdonoughue]

Two things:

1) You cannot go wrong with JL amps. Nice pick.
2) You cannot spend too much time on these forums. We are saving you money by having you do everything yourself! If you had someone pick and install all of this for you, it would cost WAY more.

 

[vxooxv]

You think that particular JL is enough for the current setup? If so - then I assume I would need to add an amp if I upgrade to say the Wetsounds or JL @ 100RMS.

 

[subysti]

Well you ordered a 5 channel amp for 9 speakers. I guess it really depends on your bank account. Those speakers are rated for 60 watts rms each and with that amp they will be getting around 37 watts each as that amp is 4 x 75 watts + 1 300 watt for your sub. Those are good speakers but not great. You really should have 2 amps for that many speakers and a couple of RCA line controllers to control volume for each set of speakers. It all comes down to cash on hand. Another amp and better speakers means more $$$$$$$$ BOAT = Break Out Another Thousand.

 

[vxooxv]

The guy at Crutchfield said if I ran everything in parallel I'd be getting 75x8 at 2 ohms or something like that?? Which would be more than enough for what I have but not enough to drop in higher end speakers. That sound about right??

 

[subysti]

Well ok but you kinda lose control over the speakers at that point as they will be connected to each other. You also now have to rewire the whole boat as you need to run from one speaker to the next instead of separate leads to each speaker.

 

[Bill D]

I believe the factory set up has everything wired in parallel, except for the swim deck speakers on the 242's. Each speaker should have it's own channel, front left, front right, rear left, rear right... If it were wired in series, you would have to have wires go from one speaker to another to another. There are some good wiring diagrams in this thread.

https://jetboaters.net/threads/prop...ed-s-e-series-audio-upgrade.8444/#post-151778

 

[vxooxv]

Starting to rip all the old amps and speakers out of the boat in preparation for the several packages in route from Odin @Earmark Marine who's been nothing short of awesome! Also a shout out to @txav8r for the battery and ACR help.

I'm basically attempting to duplicate @txav8r wiring diagram below. Instead of a single amp, i'm going with (3) Wet Sounds HT-4, 2 will power 8 Wet Sounds 650-RGB and the 1 will power (2) WS XS-10FA Subs. So i've got quite the project.

According to Odin I need 2AWG both on the +/- from the battery split into 4AWG + and - headed into the amps. How does the add a battery package come into play? Does this mean i now need 2 AWG from the battery into the switch? And from the switch to the bus - that's even if i go to that bus below. The original plan was to have both ACC and Ground go into a central bus, then run a single line where the amps are going to be located - split that at the amps into each amps. Since I need 2AWG I'm thinking just run a separate line from the Battery Splitter for ACC and Battery for ground in 2AWG to the amps. Save the Bus for everything else.. For ground I assume I do 2AWG from the House Battery to the main buss, then 4AWG to the AMP buss.? The other wild card is i was going to attempt to relocate all 3 amps on pvc board in the empty space behind the steering console. From the battery around the helm is about 20'; that a couple long runs. Just want to make sure that distance is ok.

Where is the most economical place to get all this 2AWG I will probably need.

Anyone wanting to take a trip to Harrisonburg VA? It beautiful this time of year. haha

 

[tdonoughue]

So tracing from each battery along the red line, each should be a 2AWG up until you hit the Acc Bus. Acc Bus to each amp will be a 4AWG.

Then, tracing from each battery along the black line, each should be a 2AWG up until you hit the Ground Bus. Ground Bus to each amp will be a 4AWG.

Where to get the wire is a much more difficult problem. Beware of buying online. There is a lot of cheap knock-off wire out there that can cause you big issues. So buy from a reputable source. I used some wire from Home Depot, but do NOT make my mistake. That wire is not stranded the same way and will not do the job as well (I have to replace it one of these days).

 

[vxooxv]

So my assumption was correct then. I do in fact need 2AWG into and it of the Blue Seas switch?

 

[redthumper9]

Like @tdonoughue said......use quality wire. DO NOT use CCA wire to save money. I already made that mistake. I went with KnuKoncepts 0 gauge OFC tinned wire. It's still expensive, but not quite as painful as some of the other brands.

 

[txav8r]

I'm sorry I missed this. I fly way too much for an old guy now! The Nauti Dawg electrical system was set up for a single 700/5 JL class D amp. So 4 ga was perfect. For your setup, yeah, you should upgrade from the battery to the switch and ACC bus. There have been discussions about upgrading the cable for +/- cable for engines, since it brings support to the Amps when they support the stereo indirectly. I didn't do that on the dawg or on the blue yonder, which has an 800 and a 400. I know your getting expert help from Odin. You need to stop in if your ever in Plano, they have solid techs and neat toys!

 

[vxooxv]

Thanks @redthumper9 & @txav8r & @tdonoughue

About to order all my wire and want to make sure i'm thinking it all through. Will check out knukonceptz. Had my eye on this ebay store:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Gauge-AWG...hash=item3f3a861e95:m:myKRgn6I9mdLPjUjgzJK0Tg


Where do I need to put in inline fuses? The Blue Sea's diagram shows inline fuses between both batteries and the Switch. Also - I assume I'll want to fuse between the switch and the amps - I decided i'm not going through the bus so i'll have a direct line from the Switch to the 3 way splitter to each 4AWG line running into the amps.

Q. Do I need inline fuses on the 2 or 1/0 AWG leads from batter to switch. If so what size?
Q2. Do I need inline fuse from the switch to splitter? If so what size? OR do I need to fuse each line from splitter into AMP? Again what size.

These also may be dumb questions - but i want to make sure. For the ground side.

Q. Is it ok to go Batt 1 --> Batt 2 --> Bus . VS Batt 1 --> Bus & Batt 2 --> Bus. The reason is i'm relocating the batteries but the BUS will be next to the ACR where all the stock cables come through. It'll save me from running another 5' cable.
Q2. What size ground do I need from the ACR? 16AWG with a 10AMP fuse into the bus?

 

[OperationROL]

I estimated the length from the stock battery location to the helm storage area to be about 20 feet, so I went with 1/0 gauge to ensure minimum power loss, particularly since I have a switch in the middle of the run. You may have seen the below chart before.

I know it is probably overkill with today's amps that do not draw nearly as much power, but I wanted to be safe. I spent almost $400 on wiring, connectors and fuses, which I think is crazy, but I did it.

My power is fused within 12 inches from the batteries with a 150A ANL fuse. I have 2 amps and the Wetsounds EQ that draw somewhere in the neighborhood of 130A, so I went with the 150A. When I add the 3rd amp for the tower, I will increase the fuse size to 200A.


As far as a fuse between the switch and distribution block, it is not necessary. Most of us go with a fused distribution block (as I did) and that is usually overkill since modern amps and EQ's are fused themselves. At that point, you would fuse each distribution leg according to what it is powering. For instance, one of my amps draws 50A, so I fused that run with a 60A fuse. This is insurance but not needed since the amp itself has a 50A fuse sticking out the back.


Not sure I understand the Dual Battery question. The batteries hot side (+) should never go to the same bus. The neg (-) can. The batteries will run seperately into the switch and the house side will have just 1 cable going to the helm. At that point, you will only need one positive (+) bus in that area and one negative (-) bus for the grounds. I think you are spot on about the 16A with a 10A fuse into the negative (-) bus for the ACR. I recall that is what the Blue Sea ACR calls for.

I hope this helps.

 

[vxooxv]

So it's begins.... 13 packages today.
This is going to cost me a LOT of shoes.

Little does she know I just put on the cobra assessories last weekend the subs and back plates arrive tomorrow and the complete sea deck arrives in a week.

She's says.... Why didn't you just spend the money to buy a boat that already had all this.

I say... I'm a lot smarter now, trust me.

She says, so you bought the boat to get smarter??

I say... Nothing.

 

[paratrooper39]

I tried all this and got a horrible buzzing through my speakers, ended up just taking out the amp on the interiors, although my tower speakres still have a light buzz in them when the motor is running. So frustrating.