My wiring setup.. post 1 of 2 (Speakers & AMPS) Trying to make sense of it.

[OperationROL]

I tried all this and got a horrible buzzing through my speakers, ended up just taking out the amp on the interiors, although my tower speakres still have a light buzz in them when the motor is running. So frustrating.

OK. There is usually a few different causes to the buzz:
1. Not grounding back to the battery well
2. Having your gains turned up too high.
3. Sensitive amp. I have heard many people switch to a JL Audio amp and eliminate the buzz.

See this very good article:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-AVqCeg...car/noise_suppressors_installation_guide.html


A temporary band-aid is to purchase a Ground Loop Isolator (Noise filter).

 

[vxooxv]

I tried all this and got a horrible buzzing through my speakers, ended up just taking out the amp on the interiors, although my tower speakers still have a light buzz in them when the motor is running. So frustrating.

By no means am I an expert - I'd think the buzzing is probably a ground loop issue. Which is why I went ahead and dropped close to 400 on wire; specifically 1/0 power and ground all going through distribution blocks - so that each of the 3 amps get's sufficient (perhaps more than needed) but equal power/ground. I've heard from other sources that grounding the HU directly to the battery could help too.

 

[txav8r]

Running the HU and the amps on the same source is important. But as mentioned, the quality of the amp is equally important.

@vxooxv , tell the Mrs. that many manufacturers sell their flagship boat "with all the bells and whistles" and it won't always come with all these things that we want. The stereo upgrade on the upgraded models is not what you want or need. That is why Yamaha sells the "slam packs". Yamaha does listen and adds some of the things we discover here. Starting with a better base speaker is one of them, and they went to the most popular base level that many here have used for years. And when they built "slam pack" kits...they went straight to JL Audio, because they get the bang for the buck owners want. Upgraded turf, you bet, they are listening! But Jetboaters.net members will always be finding new things to improve!

 

[paratrooper39]

@OperationROL I am running a JL amp as part of the slam pack. I am going to try and run a ground directly to the battery next, I've also read that you can ground to the ground on the largest amp. I used a bus bar off of my battery switch to feed my sub and JL amp, and I'm wondering if this could be the source of the issue. They are all very tight but it sits directly next to the blower, which is when I really notice the noise pollution. I actually purchased two ground loop isolators and installed them with literally no effect, so I returned them. I may try a noise filter next, but seriously its a brand new boat with only a slampak upgrade from the dealership, why in the world is this happening. It quite literally ruined my first couple trips out and I haven't even messed with the boat since.

 

[paratrooper39]

I've printed out their flow chart and I'll attempt it again Saturday when its nice out. Pray for me lol

 

[vxooxv]

I estimated the length from the stock battery location to the helm storage area to be about 20 feet, so I went with 1/0 gauge to ensure minimum power loss, particularly since I have a switch in the middle of the run. You may have seen the below chart before.
View attachment 35938
I know it is probably overkill with today's amps that do not draw nearly as much power, but I wanted to be safe. I spent almost $400 on wiring, connectors and fuses, which I think is crazy, but I did it.

My power is fused within 12 inches from the batteries with a 150A ANL fuse. I have 2 amps and the Wetsounds EQ that draw somewhere in the neighborhood of 130A, so I went with the 150A. When I add the 3rd amp for the tower, I will increase the fuse size to 200A.
View attachment 35930

As far as a fuse between the switch and distribution block, it is not necessary. Most of us go with a fused distribution block (as I did) and that is usually overkill since modern amps and EQ's are fused themselves. At that point, you would fuse each distribution leg according to what it is powering. For instance, one of my amps draws 50A, so I fused that run with a 60A fuse. This is insurance but not needed since the amp itself has a 50A fuse sticking out the back.
View attachment 35935

Not sure I understand the Dual Battery question. The batteries hot side (+) should never go to the same bus. The neg (-) can. The batteries will run seperately into the switch and the house side will have just 1 cable going to the helm. At that point, you will only need one positive (+) bus in that area and one negative (-) bus for the grounds. I think you are spot on about the 16A with a 10A fuse into the negative (-) bus for the ACR. I recall that is what the Blue Sea ACR calls for.

I hope this helps.

Wiring day!!


I'm just wondering if the negative bus bar needs to be between the batteries?? I don't think it does but I want to make sure. I relocated both batteries away from the switch which is away from (between) the Amps. So can't I jump house battery neg directly to start battery neg and directly to amp. And start battery neg over to bus which has the stock motor and acc neg on it.

Or.

Do I have to run a house and start neg to the bus. And then everything from the bus?

It's just less 1/0 wire with the first option. Back to the bus. 2 vs 1 runs. As the amp feed can stop at the house battery vs also way back to the bus.

 

[tdonoughue]

The negative bus bar can be wherever you want it, provided that you do not exceed the amp rating of the bar. Probably you are not near that point, but it is worth checking. Then run so you use the least wire.

 

[vxooxv]

Spent the last 3 days - the entire 3 says ripping out old wire and beginning the very long underestimated journey of re-wiring everything battery and audio. Man - what a frigging job!


Never the less. Got all the 1/0 ran. Installed the switch, the ACR, the bus bars... Custom built an upside down L board out of some marine board and installed all 3 amp in the empty space in front of the helm. That was a grand idea I really underestimated. But it appears after hours on my back crawling around that might work. Got all 4 speakers installed in the boat with all new wire. Why did I have to get the RGB's... Btw I'm becoming proficient in soldering - something I've not done since shop in high school. Resiculously small wires....

Finally onto the tower. Who knew taking down the twin bullets to get the RGB wires in would be my biggest challenge but hey.. Almost there. On the second speaker in the tower. I guess the stock screws weren't meant to go through the metal cans. Broke the stainless screw. Drill bit through that brand spankingg new wet sounds 650.. And all that time I spent on a ladder in the boat to solder those stupid red green blue black left right wires in. Drill goes flying into the driveway - two wrongs don't make a right. Now I need a new drill and a speaker.

All in all much progress has been made. If this all magically works on first try, whenever that is it'll be a damn miracle.

Thanks for listening. I blame everyone here for the money I've spent. And then thank you for all the support and answers to my dumb questions.

I'll get some better pics up soon.

Switch and ACR. Yes upside down so I could use the pre drilled holes from the older switch.



Custom amp holder under empty space in the helm.. If that's what it's called.




Damn...

 

[vxooxv]

I estimated the length from the stock battery location to the helm storage area to be about 20 feet, so I went with 1/0 gauge to ensure minimum power loss, particularly since I have a switch in the middle of the run. You may have seen the below chart before.
View attachment 35938
I know it is probably overkill with today's amps that do not draw nearly as much power, but I wanted to be safe. I spent almost $400 on wiring, connectors and fuses, which I think is crazy, but I did it.

My power is fused within 12 inches from the batteries with a 150A ANL fuse. I have 2 amps and the Wetsounds EQ that draw somewhere in the neighborhood of 130A, so I went with the 150A. When I add the 3rd amp for the tower, I will increase the fuse size to 200A.
View attachment 35930

As far as a fuse between the switch and distribution block, it is not necessary. Most of us go with a fused distribution block (as I did) and that is usually overkill since modern amps and EQ's are fused themselves. At that point, you would fuse each distribution leg according to what it is powering. For instance, one of my amps draws 50A, so I fused that run with a 60A fuse. This is insurance but not needed since the amp itself has a 50A fuse sticking out the back.
View attachment 35935

Not sure I understand the Dual Battery question. The batteries hot side (+) should never go to the same bus. The neg (-) can. The batteries will run seperately into the switch and the house side will have just 1 cable going to the helm. At that point, you will only need one positive (+) bus in that area and one negative (-) bus for the grounds. I think you are spot on about the 16A with a 10A fuse into the negative (-) bus for the ACR. I recall that is what the Blue Sea ACR calls for.

I hope this helps.

@OperationROL in your amp diagram i'm assuming the blue wires up to the small bus are the REM's? Where you getting the power for that? I was just going to basically hook them up to what would be your 4 post ACC bus you have hooked up to the main power distribution block (with the red wire on the left side). I have all the REM's hooked to a dedicated switch so i can kill the amps if needed. I supposed the question is, it wouldn't matter if it's all coming from the same power block right? The switch just kills the amps if needed eh?


Also if anyone knows if the way i wired the RGB's will actually work (probably should have made sure before). Basically I wired the front 2 speakers in series and the back 2 in series then twist connected the front to the back and put into the RGB controller. I did it this way in case there was ever an issue i could disconnect the twists into the controller and basically diagnose 2 speakers at a time vs wiring all 4 in series and having to diagnose 4 at a time. I only did the RGB wires this way, not the actually speaker -/+.

 

[OperationROL]

@OperationROL in your amp diagram i'm assuming the blue wires up to the small bus are the REM's? Where you getting the power for that? I was just going to basically hook them up to what would be your 4 post ACC bus you have hooked up to the main power distribution block (with the red wire on the left side). I have all the REM's hooked to a dedicated switch so i can kill the amps if needed. I supposed the question is, it wouldn't matter if it's all coming from the same power block right? The switch just kills the amps if needed eh?

I am using the REM from the Stereo. There is a blue REM wire going into the harness and currently going no where else. So, my Amps need the stereo on before they will power. What you are planning on is fine too, especially if you will have a switch.

 

[vxooxv]

Perfect - but.. I didn't plan ahead and don't have extra acc/ground behind the helm with my amps. I put a small distro block but i was nervous about stepping out of the 1/0 ACC block to 4awg (i do have an extra out) into that small block (over kill) ok? I'd then basically have to switch out the ground 4 way to a 5 way and do essentially the same thing. Otherwise I'd just prefer to go with a blue sea's covered/fused with ground small panel. I was nervous about going 4awg into whatever i put back there. Maybe i shouldn't be. Short of running smaller 8awg all the way around i'm not sure how else to tap into what i have to get what i need. If that makes sense...

 

[vxooxv]

Finally....

All 8 WS 650 - RGB's wired up into 2 HT-4's. Amaaaaazing difference.

In testing I cranked both motors only for a few seconds to experience very very annoying hissing. So the enjoyment of my at least 100 hrs of work was short lived.

The previous setup had / still has a ground wire to a bolt on one of the motors. Not... The factory but combined with them on my neg buss bar from the batteries. I've not ripped that off to test because I got distracted trying to decrypt the Wetsounds RGB controller. Could that be it?? I know I have sufficient ground to the amps. I'm running 1-0 knu from the buss to the batteries to the amps and 4awg into the amps. Same with power. I still have 2 subs, an entire sea deck and oil changes to perform. Uhgggggg

 

[tdonoughue]

There have been reports of issues with LED controllers causing noise, so that could be it. However, tracking noise is rarely that simple.

My advice: Do a search for noise as posted by @David Analog . I would certainly consider him one expert on the subject. There is a post (I could not find it immediately) that he did where he proposes steps to diagnose something like that (I believe that it was to begin by unplugging all sources from the amps and seeing if you still have noise, then plugging sources in one at a time to narrow things down, basically). Find that post. While you are looking for it, you will find his many other hints and explanations. They usually take me about 5 readings to understand them, but they are pure gold when you have an issue like yours.

 

[vxooxv]

Here's a pic of my current (new wiring). The only 2 things that jump out are...

1. There is a mysterious ground that goes to one of the motor mounts from the main bus. This isn't the 2 from the factory - I believe it was part of the previous amp/setup. Since it existed I used it again. I may just try to rip that off as I don't think it's needed.
2. Maybe because I have everything coming from the same ground block? Not quite sure how I'd do it otherwise. Maybe ground the amps directly to house battery? Wouldn't they still all be connected via House to Motor battery back to the block anyway?
3. Didn't touch the factory HU. Have no idea how that's really powered or grounded. Maybe ground directly back to the blue seas panel that comes from the amps? Again though isn't all the ground stuff essentially connected in series anyway?
4. Any chance because i ran my power/ground next to each other from the batteries all the way around to the amps?
5. RCA cables? All high end... come from HU into amps.
6. Speaker wire... massive 14 awg shielded

There is zero chance i don't have sufficient ground. I'm using all 1/o power and ground Knu wire from batteries to amps to bus etc. 4 awg from amps.

really frustrating

 

[tdonoughue]

You are just showing the power side. I don't know that I really have the skills that others around here have to diagnose (in fact, I have a noise issue myself I need to finally get in there and deal with...), but from what I gather you need to see the input side to get the whole picture. Then you need to remove inputs from the base (attached to the amps) and progress up the line through the HU and to any attached aux in order to figure out what might be introducing the noise. If you have noise while the amps are disconnected from all inputs, then the noise is coming from the power side of the amps. Don't know what to do about it from memory, but that is what I recall from the experts around here... Hopefully someone skilled will chime in.

 

[JAUGA82]

Finally....

All 8 WS 650 - RGB's wired up into 2 HT-4's. Amaaaaazing difference.

In testing I cranked both motors only for a few seconds to experience very very annoying hissing. So the enjoyment of my at least 100 hrs of work was short lived.

The previous setup had / still has a ground wire to a bolt on one of the motors. Not... The factory but combined with them on my neg buss bar from the batteries. I've not ripped that off to test because I got distracted trying to decrypt the Wetsounds RGB controller. Could that be it?? I know I have sufficient ground to the amps. I'm running 1-0 knu from the buss to the batteries to the amps and 4awg into the amps. Same with power. I still have 2 subs, an entire sea deck and oil changes to perform. Uhgggggg

I know this is an old thread, but it you never figured out the hissing noise, it is almost certainly the RGB controller. I had the exact same problem. Fixed it by powering the LEDs off a power wheels battery in the helm...completely separated from everything else.