Rotax owners keep this handy

[DR BLAKE]

This is for all of you Rotax powered boats, and PWCs.

This weekend I finished some good TLC on my Scarab. I washed it, and was going to run the engine to check my fluids. I ran into this problem, and the solution was cheap, but not easy to find at all. I figure I would pass this along.

Let me give you a back story so you guys can read the symptoms.

Over the winter my boat got minimal usage. I would run the engine once a couple weeks to get some fluid though it. About 2 months ago, I started to notice that there was times where my boat would not fire or crank on the first try with the key. I would finally get it to go after a couple, sometimes a few more.

Finally this weekend it wouldn't crank at all.

I checked the breakers in the battery switch panel, and checked all of the fuses, and connections. All good.

I checked all of the grounds, and cables from the battery to the starter. This lead me to believe that the starter solenoid was bad. This is located on the rear fuse box, and has 2 red cables attached to it. You can bypass this, and test the starter by touching both sides of it. This will make your starter turn. If this happens, then you know your starter is good.

Ok, so that led me to believe that my starter solenoid was bad, no biggie. You can get a new one online for a few bucks. Here is what it looks like. (but this was not the problem)

Now, here is here i found out that even though it had all the symptoms, the solenoid wasn't the issue.

If you place your key on "run" position, and you bypass the solenoid, the engine will crank and start IF the solenoid was the issue, guess what, it did not run.

Here was the solution after a few hours troubleshooting......

In the rear fuse box, there are two relays. They will both click. This will make you believe that they are good to go. One says engine ignition, the other says boat electrical or in my seadoo it says Canbus relay.

To test these you have to physically pull them out. shake them and listen carefully. If one of these fail especially the boat electrical one, the engine will prep itself, the cluster will sweep, and then it will not crank.

Here is a picture of this relay. It is a $4 part, and the dealers will want to charge you $40-50 for it, plus 2 hours of labor to replace it.

I advise all of you to keep a couple handy in your emergency equipment in your watercraft. These will cause you some headaches, and a ton of cash to fix. Especially with Scarab, Glastron, and Chaparral dealers that are not knowledgeable as they should be.

View attachment 54124

i had the same problem and it drove me bananas. Finally the dealer was able to figure it out and that is the exact relay that gave me issues. I have a spare but the question remains why would neither engine crank. Did I have two bad relays as there are two fuse boxes???

 

[KlubMarcus]

So what is the reason that the subject relay keeps failing?

It fails because it's an Omron brand relay. Honda / Acura owners have this problem with their AC Relay. If the Omron relay is replaced with a more expensive Mitsuba 39794-SDA-A05 relay, then the AC becomes more reliable.

I re-uploaded this old video of mine. Unfortunately, I do not have a substitute Mitusba part number handy for the one in the Scarab.

 

[philupngo]

This is for all of you Rotax powered boats, and PWCs.

This weekend I finished some good TLC on my Scarab. I washed it, and was going to run the engine to check my fluids. I ran into this problem, and the solution was cheap, but not easy to find at all. I figure I would pass this along.

Let me give you a back story so you guys can read the symptoms.

Over the winter my boat got minimal usage. I would run the engine once a couple weeks to get some fluid though it. About 2 months ago, I started to notice that there was times where my boat would not fire or crank on the first try with the key. I would finally get it to go after a couple, sometimes a few more.

Finally this weekend it wouldn't crank at all.

I checked the breakers in the battery switch panel, and checked all of the fuses, and connections. All good.

I checked all of the grounds, and cables from the battery to the starter. This lead me to believe that the starter solenoid was bad. This is located on the rear fuse box, and has 2 red cables attached to it. You can bypass this, and test the starter by touching both sides of it. This will make your starter turn. If this happens, then you know your starter is good.

Ok, so that led me to believe that my starter solenoid was bad, no biggie. You can get a new one online for a few bucks. Here is what it looks like. (but this was not the problem)

Now, here is here i found out that even though it had all the symptoms, the solenoid wasn't the issue.

If you place your key on "run" position, and you bypass the solenoid, the engine will crank and start IF the solenoid was the issue, guess what, it did not run.

Here was the solution after a few hours troubleshooting......

In the rear fuse box, there are two relays. They will both click. This will make you believe that they are good to go. One says engine ignition, the other says boat electrical or in my seadoo it says Canbus relay.

To test these you have to physically pull them out. shake them and listen carefully. If one of these fail especially the boat electrical one, the engine will prep itself, the cluster will sweep, and then it will not crank.

Here is a picture of this relay. It is a $4 part, and the dealers will want to charge you $40-50 for it, plus 2 hours of labor to replace it.

I advise all of you to keep a couple handy in your emergency equipment in your watercraft. These will cause you some headaches, and a ton of cash to fix. Especially with Scarab, Glastron, and Chaparral dealers that are not knowledgeable as they should be.

View attachment 54124

UPDATE Aug 11, 2019: ScarabMike, first of all--thanks for posting this useful info!! Long story short, my Chaparral 243VRX twin engine boat exhibited the same symptoms yesterday at the boat ramp. Everything turned on but neither motor would crank. Turns out the relay was bad just as you had wrote about. Since you took the time to post this great info, I'll add what I can to hopefully help someone else out.

For troubleshooting of my "no crank, no start" boat problem for my twin engine boat, it seemed very odd that there were no indications that something was failing. It simply worked fine one day and then wouldn't start/crank the next. With two engines, it had to be something electrical upstream of the engines, I thought, or something that links them together. One of the first things I looked at were the 2 relays per engine. I pulled each of them and all 4 felt and sounded solid. On to the next and the next and the next item on my troubleshooting plan.

After no luck checking connections, fuses, neutral switch, kill switch/lanyard, etc, I decided to revisit the relay issue. I have an aircraft maintenance background, so a common troubleshooting technique is to swap identical parts and see if the issue follows, changes in some way, or resolves itself. So, I swapped the two relays from the port engine with the two relays from the starboard engine. Poof! Both engines cranked!! The starboard engine started but the port engine would only continue to crank. Progress! I researched the part number from ScarabMike, ordered 3 relays from Amazon, and then took a trip from the marina to Carquest. NOTE: I found the exact same relay, only made by two different manufacturers. I bought them both on the spot. Back to the marina. I pulled the Engine Shutdown 30A relay from the fuse box and installed the new one. Again, the port engine cranked, but would not start. So I re-inserted the original Engine Shutdown 30A relay and swapped the 12V Accessory 30A relay in the same fuse box. Then I pushed the port start button - VOILA! Engine purring! I then started the starboard side - purring like a kitten!

Problem solved for $20 and about 4 hours of my day. Again, thanks ScarabMike for paving the way on this Rotax engine issue. At least now if someone has twin engines, you may not get stuck if you begin by systematically swapping relays. My theory is that the starboard engine had the bad relay to begin with. The start sequence must have began with the starboard side. Once it decided not to crank because of the relay, it prevented the port side motor from starting also. Haven't dug too much into this since I just got home, but wanted to get this out there in hopes of saving someone else's boat day should you/they encounter a similar problem. Thanks!

 

[Recoveringfiberglassaddic]

Just FYI, I also have seen issues with the OMRON relays on older Ilmor engines used in Mastercrafts. They are junk IMO. BWD has one tha works. PN is R3110. Any parts house that carries Borg Warner should have them or be able to get them if you are in a pinch. GASP, they are almost 15$ at our local Advanced Auto Parts.

 

[Halfsack1982]

Do I need to grab some relays for the 1630 ace engines as well?

 

[Dean P]

Do I need to grab some relays for the 1630 ace engines as well?

Your engine is to new to answer that; but it would not hurt. Right?

 

[Halfsack1982]

Your engine is to new to answer that; but it would not hurt. Right?

No doubt I’ll check and see what relays it has and go from there.

 

[Dean P]

No doubt I’ll check and see what relays it has and go from there.

Just pull the ones you have now and get more. I keep 2 on the boat at all times. Like what was mentioned, one second you good and then you're not. Kindofsucks...but if you're prepared no big deal.

 

[Mrhonnesty99]

give me your email i have a a adobe version that should give you the info you need

Hello can you pm me the service Manual, thank you .

 

[scarab215]

New guy and a little late to the party here but I am having a problem that I was curious if anyone has come across.
I am absolutely going the "replace the relays" route in the hopes that it is the issue but I had to order them and they won't be here for a few days at least so I thought I would ask for suggestions or (fingers crossed) a solution.

2014 Scarab 215 HO - twin Rotax 200's ran fine and great with no problems. Son wanted to drive and open her up, barreling through the canal at around 40 or so and accidentally pulled the Kill switch. I jumped in the seat, replaced the clip and proceeded to restart.
First one (Port) started right up, Second one (Starboard) started but immediately killed the first one but continued to run. Started the first one again and it started and ran but killed the second one. So on and so forth several more times before we decided to just limp back home on one engine. I ran the port for about halfway and then switched to starboard just to share the load and keep the hours as even as possible really.

Sorry for the long story but does anyone have any idea what would be causing this? Again they both start and both run but only one at a time. With one running, starting the other kills the running one but allows the second one to start and run.
Batteries are 13.6 V and 100% on the charger readings.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[John P Jones]

I have a 214 Scarab 215HO as well. Never had that issue, but both engines run through the computer that monitors the Synchronization and such. Perhaps something tripped a flag that put it in Limp Mode.
first things first, disconnect the battery and let things discharge fully first, then reconnect and see if flags were cleared to allow them to run.
otherwise, you may need to hookup a CANDO scanner/computer to see what it tells you.

 

[Faith Johnson]

New guy and a little late to the party here but I am having a problem that I was curious if anyone has come across.
I am absolutely going the "replace the relays" route in the hopes that it is the issue but I had to order them and they won't be here for a few days at least so I thought I would ask for suggestions or (fingers crossed) a solution.

2014 Scarab 215 HO - twin Rotax 200's ran fine and great with no problems. Son wanted to drive and open her up, barreling through the canal at around 40 or so and accidentally pulled the Kill switch. I jumped in the seat, replaced the clip and proceeded to restart.
First one (Port) started right up, Second one (Starboard) started but immediately killed the first one but continued to run. Started the first one again and it started and ran but killed the second one. So on and so forth several more times before we decided to just limp back home on one engine. I ran the port for about halfway and then switched to starboard just to share the load and keep the hours as even as possible really.

Sorry for the long story but does anyone have any idea what would be causing this? Again they both start and both run but only one at a time. With one running, starting the other kills the running one but allows the second one to start and run.
Batteries are 13.6 V and 100% on the charger readings.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Oh I bet your son felt so bad. Poor guy. The positive is they both run.

 

[JetTech72]

is your boat configured with 2 ignition switches or 1 ignition switch & 2 start/stop buttons ? does the engine shut immediately when you are starting the 2nd one? Have you try to start both at the same time?

 

[scarab215]

is your boat configured with 2 ignition switches or 1 ignition switch & 2 start/stop buttons ? does the engine shut immediately when you are starting the 2nd one? Have you try to start both at the same time?

Two separate ignition keys (port and starboard engines). Can only turn one at a time as you have to get the throttle position into the throttle indent and just in the right spot at the same time as turning the key.
Yes, starting the other engine with the first one running immediatlely kills the first one when it starts.
It's odd because they both will start and run but only one at a time.
I'm still waiting for the new relays to arrive and I ordered a starter solenoid in the meantime, just in case as well.

 

[scarab215]

Just wanted to update the issue that I was having that I posted about. Parts finally came in and it absolutely was the relay switches. I replaced all four although they all looked good except one that had an arc type of burn look on one of the prongs. But now there's 4 new ones in and I have spares. Thank goodness for this thread and this site.
Greatly appreciate the help and just the discussion that was here before me, saved me unknown countless dollars and lots of time and frustration.

 

[Faith Johnson]

Just wanted to update the issue that I was having that I posted about. Parts finally came in and it absolutely was the relay switches. I replaced all four although they all looked good except one that had an arc type of burn look on one of the prongs. But now there's 4 new ones in and I have spares. Thank goodness for this thread and this site.
Greatly appreciate the help and just the discussion that was here before me, saved me unknown countless dollars and lots of time and frustration.

Mike did us all a solid by reporting everything. I literally had every single issue he had. I’m glad that fixed it. The dealership would have charged out the Ying yang just to tell you what they “think” it is.

 

[Ctmadrig]

We have a glastron gts 2016 207 jet boat. We were on the water running a few minutes later it turned off and then does not want to turn back on, no crank or anything the check engine light goes flashing. if I disconnect the battery and leave it about 10 seconds and connect it back the boat turns back on with no problem but will only stay on for another few minutes ( boat has a brand new battery)

 

[Ctmadrig]

We have a glastron gts 2016 207 jet boat. We were on the water running a few minutes later it turned off and then does not want to turn back on, no crank or anything the check engine light goes flashing. if I disconnect the battery and leave it about 10 seconds and connect it back the boat turns back on with no problem but will only stay on for another few minutes ( boat has a brand new battery)

 

[JetTech72]

When you have the no cranking situation, if you put ignition ON do you hear the fuel pump & engine to be energized (throttle body humming)?
I'm guessing you may have either a safety lanyard issue or an ignition switch issue. With the check engine light flashing, can you see any diagnostic codes?

 

[mcavoyd]

give me your email i have a a adobe version that should give you the info you need

Can you send me pdf version?