Scarab Grate Issues!

[Cav Man]

Well, after 5 years we've did it! Took in a tow rope into the impeller over the weekend. I need help getting the grill/protector plate off. I can take out the back 3 bolts that hold the plate on, but the front 2 bolts keep turning and not coming out. Are there nuts holding the two bigger bolts?

 

[Luc Lafreniere]

ugh.. do NOT take off the grate!!! lol sorry, everybody tries this because of those stupid bolts. You need to hold them inside the boat which is practically impossible. On top of that, you probably broke the seal they applied now that you turned them. You may get water slowly coming in next time it's in the water.

You're suppose to take the bucket and pump off from the stern! Never the grate! It's a quick 15 min job once you've done it before with simple tools.

Sorry, this keeps happening and people keep doing the grate. They really, really should have it impossible to remove that grate.

 

[Luc Lafreniere]

This video is your new friend:

 

[Cav Man]

Thanks for the video. I did just what he did in the video and the rope if free of the impeller and it's all put back together. How much water should I be concerned about if I broke the seal on the front two bolts? What's a fix if this is leaking?

 

[Luc Lafreniere]

Glad you got it out! No damage to the impeller boot? Shaft? etc. Make sure you've inspected things.

As for how much is too much... lol it's probably a slow leak if it leaks. I would make sure it's bone dry, put it in water and watch it to see how much if any comes in.

As to how to fix that... excellent question. Beyond my expertise at that point, I'm sorry. I've never had to fix that problem. I just know OF the problem.

 

[Cav Man]

Glad you got it out! No damage to the impeller boot? Shaft? etc. Make sure you've inspected things.

As for how much is too much... lol it's probably a slow leak if it leaks. I would make sure it's bone dry, put it in water and watch it to see how much if any comes in.

As to how to fix that... excellent question. Beyond my expertise at that point, I'm sorry. I've never had to fix that problem. I just know OF the problem.

The impeller, boot & shaft look good. No serious damage & it spins freely now. My next project is to determine why the bulge pump keeps running even when there’s no water in the boat. It keeps running the battery down while in storage.

 

[Luc Lafreniere]

Excellent. What type of pump is in your boat? Does it look like this one by any chance? Whale SS5212 Supersub Smart 650 Electric Bilge Pump, Suitable for Use with Fresh or Salt Water, 12V DC, 3.4 Amps, Open Flow Rate of 650 GPH @ 13.6V DC, 16 AWG Wire, ¾-Inch and 1-Inch Hose Connections: Amazon.ca: Sports & Outdoors

I'm asking because I can probably help you IF it's that type of pump.

 

[Cav Man]

Yes. That’s the damn pump.

 

[Luc Lafreniere]

Let me help you calm your nerves. lol So, the pump has a built in "electric field sensor" to detect if there's water. It's at the opposite end of the intake grate. Inside the yellow, rectangular prism tip. What I discovered a few years ago is that when it's installed in our boats, they are hand glued to the hull. When this is done, the pump usually ends up very close to horizontal. It may tilt down towards the stern a bit if you're lucky (probably because the boat sits lower at the stern end in the water). But of course, this is often NOT the case on a trailer. lol

So what needs to happen is you need to change the angle of the pump so that the sensor side, is as high as you can make it and the intake grate side, is as low as possible. After messing around with it, I discovered that if you get a decent sized stainless clamp, place it so that the bolt is UNDER the pump and clamp it as far as you can towards the center of the pump. Then tighten it in place without breaking it. You just want it snug. This will elevate the sensor side by quite a bit.

By doing this, the pump will only kick on if there's enough water to reach that sensor. On the other end, when it does kick on, it will suck up as much water as possible so that when the water is low enough, the sensor will no longer detect water. The other benefit is that when you turn the pump on manually, you'll get more water out since the intake will be lower.

The other thing to keep in mind is the angle of your boat when you have it on the trailer. Make sure it's fairly high on the jack to keep the angle relatively steeply downwards toward the stern. If not, there's more chance of it detecting any leftover water and it will kick on. Even if you have the drain plugs open, unless you're boat is angled steeply enough, there's always a bit of water leftover.

After being really annoyed with this problem when I got my boat and nobody knowing what to do, that's when I got pissed off and figured it out. lol Guess what I just discovered a few weeks ago? If you look at the new model of that pump on that link, you'll notice this line in the full description: "Installation is straight-forward and a new installation wedge optimizes pump operation.". GOD DAMNIT! This "new wedge" is exactly what is needed to solve this problem, but it wasn't on our pumps in those years. Enter, stainless steel clamp. Easier said then done. Hard to reach and hard to tighten. You may need to twist yourself to reach it and use an extension on the socket. But it solves the problem once and for all.

If your boat is parked on a sloped driveway or something, then there's no way around it. Disconnect it from the battery when stored or add a switch for the bilge pump directly. The bilge bypasses the master switch so that it can empty the boat regardless if the master is on or not. You can also rewire into the master switch... but of course, that means it will be off if you turn off the master switch.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[Luc Lafreniere]

Oh, and in case this is useful, you can grab that prism side of the pump, twist it CCW and it will come out of the black plastic piece glued to the hull. So that could be handy to attach the clamp. Once attached, you can put it back on. But the bolt of the clamp could be in the way when you're trying to rotate the part to lock it back onto the black plastic piece.

 

[Cav Man]

Thanks for the extensive work around solution on the pump. I’m going to try and get a quick disconnect type plug on the pumps ground wire. So I can easily disconnect it during storage. I’m sure I understand your instructions, but I’m a big guy & trying to get down into the bottom of the boat to get to the pump is an issue for me.

 

[Luc Lafreniere]

This is where child labo.... I mean, help from a kid is handy! lol

 

[PrimaBoat]

ugh.. do NOT take off the grate!!! lol sorry, everybody tries this because of those stupid bolts. You need to hold them inside the boat which is practically impossible. On top of that, you probably broke the seal they applied now that you turned them. You may get water slowly coming in next time it's in the water.

You're suppose to take the bucket and pump off from the stern! Never the grate! It's a quick 15 min job once you've done it before with simple tools.

Sorry, this keeps happening and people keep doing the grate. They really, really should have it impossible to remove that grate.

Bought a 2017 165 HO Platinum a month ago. While installing a Cobra Jet Steering assist I looked at the intake grate and shaft. The three stern grate bolts are missing, front two are holding the grate. What size bolts go in the rear and just how difficult are they to replace? Also appears there are rope fragments wrapped around the impeller shaft so apparently I should remove bucket and pump? Thanks in advance!

 

[Luc Lafreniere]

For the rope, yes. Follow the video I posted above. It's an easy job and the only way to get complete access. I can't comment on the bolts, I've never had to do them, sorry.

 

[PrimaBoat]

For the rope, yes. Follow the video I posted above. It's an easy job and the only way to get complete access. I can't comment on the bolts, I've never had to do them, sorry.

Thanks, I'll for sure watch the video.

 

[newb]

This video is your new friend:

Thanks for the video Luc, It came in very very handy! Tomorrow I will try to get it back in the water.

 

[mbonadio]

Bought a 2017 165 HO Platinum a month ago. While installing a Cobra Jet Steering assist I looked at the intake grate and shaft. The three stern grate bolts are missing, front two are holding the grate. What size bolts go in the rear and just how difficult are they to replace? Also appears there are rope fragments wrapped around the impeller shaft so apparently I should remove bucket and pump? Thanks in advance!

How do you like the cobra-steering? I seriously am considering this for my 2020 165. It’s near impossible to steer at the dock when putting into my slip or controlling it at slow speed. Nearly ready to throw the towel in but stumbled on Jeff’s product today.

 

[Luc Lafreniere]

I can't comment on that product, but I own a 165. It is most definitely very possible to maneuver the crap out of that boat at slow speeds. I can approach docks, slips, etc. with high precision without a hitch. So unless something is wrong in your setup, then it's a matter of getting used to it. With that being said, some people seem to have a much harder time learning how to steer it. What those fins generally do is make the boat go in a straight line when at slower speeds. In other words, avoids the constant left/right oscillation when you tend to oversteer. It can act as an extra helping hand. But I can tell you that once you know how to drive this boat, you can definitely achieve this without the fins. Some install these and later on improve and realize they don't need them anymore. Not a knock against the product, I'm sure it's helped many people.

Be aware they sit lower. So in shallow waters like a beech, that can be an issue depending on your boating habits.

 

[Patwal]

Hey cav man, just wondering did you have any leaks from loosening the top two bolts? After a decade of boating I managed to suck one in this weekend. Thought to take off the grate first. Only to have those two bolts spin but never loosen. Wondering if I need to reseal them or not?

 

[Luc Lafreniere]

If you're lucky, the sealant stayed intact and no water coming in. Best way to know, get the boat on the trailer. Make sure it's dry underneath. Put some water in the bilge and see if the bolts leaks and how much under the boat. Then you'll know.