Sugar Sands Tango randomly dies or won't start

[Stormcat918]

Hello my fellow boaters!

I am new to the jet boat scene so please forgive me if this is a stupid question. I bought a 1998 Sugar Sand Tango Offshore a few months back. It has the merc 175 sportjet engine. I ran it out on the water 2 or 3 times without any issues (all speeds and rpms seemed normal). About a month ago, I drop it in the water, it fires right up, then about 2 minutes later it dies and wouldn't start back up. When I got home and started her up, I was able to replicate the same 2-3 minute running time before it died again. I put a bottle of sea foam in the tank and it fired right up and ran with no issues. The next weekend, I put it back in the water and ran through the whole tank of gas (with seafoam) without any issues. I didnt turn off then engine at all during this time. The next weekend I filled it up with a fresh tank of gas ran it about 15 miles and anchored at a sandbar for a couple hours. Went to start it back up and it wouldn't start so I had to get towed back to the dock. Once again, I dumped some seafoam in it and got it back to the 2-3 minutes of running state before she dies. Has anyone experienced this before or have ideas on a fix? I don't know much about the previous maintenance. The oil system was already removed when I bought the boat and I run regular gas with a 50:1 oil mixture. I pulled the plugs and they all look good. I put a brand new battery in the boat when I first bought it. My gut is telling me that there is a fuel line clog somewhere. My current plan is to drain all the gas in the tank and replace both inline fuel filters and start using ethanol free gas. Does this sound reasonable?

On a side note, one of the fuel filters (mercury p/n 35-834830) is no longer made. I found some on ebay so I ordered 2 just to have a spare, but does anyone know of a comparable filter that could be used should I need one later down the road?

Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks and happy boating!

 

[bronze_10]

reading this i was gonna suggest some kind of fuel issue.. but someone with a lot more knowledge than me will be able to help.

 

[itsdgm]

Welcome @Stormcat918 glad that you found us. That's a bummer about the intermittent starting issue. I agree that it sounds fuel related. But my uneducated (no sugar sands experience) would be fuel pump or possibly carb (if there is one) related. I seen to remember reading about a few guys, possibly @Ronnie that used to own one and had carb related issues. Hopefully they'll chime in shortly. Anyway, good luck with the fix.

 

[Stormcat918]

Welcome @Stormcat918 glad that you found us. That's a bummer about the intermittent starting issue. I agree that it sounds fuel related. But my uneducated (no sugar sands experience) would be fuel pump or possibly carb (if there is one) related. I seen to remember reading about a few guys, possibly @Ronnie that used to own one and had carb related issues. Hopefully they'll chime in shortly. Anyway, good luck with the fix.

Thanks for the input. Yes there are 3 separate carbs they appear to be a pain in the butt to get at. I hope it doesn't come down to that!

 

[Ronnie]

The carbs on my 175 hp sport jet had to be rebuilt in doing so the tech found that the needles in each carb were deteriorating / peeling like an onion. Carb kits were about $65 each over ten years ago. Labor was another $500 for five hours. Not sure but if you do it yourself you may be able to just count and record the needle settings (turns or partial turns out from closed for high, low and idle) of each carb and avoid setting the pop off pressure of each carb altogether. the carbs just look like a pita to get to but once you remove the cover everything is right there, at least it was on my engine.

 

[Stormcat918]

The carbs on my 175 hp sport jet had to be rebuilt in doing so the tech found that the needles in each carb were deteriorating / peeling like an onion. Carb kits were about $65 each over ten years ago. Labor was another $500 for five hours. Not sure but if you do it yourself you may be able to just count and record the needle settings (turns or partial turns out from closed for high, low and idle) of each carb and avoid setting the pop off pressure of each carb altogether. the carbs just look like a pita to get to but once you remove the cover everything is right there, at least it was on my engine.

Were you having the same symptoms or was it different? I am very handy with cars (have replaced transmissions, clutches, tune ups and such) but never torn apart a carb so I'm a little hesitant. Luckily with cars, if you break down, you have a buddy bring tools and fix it on the side of the road. With a boat, you generally don't have that luxury (this coming from a guy that was stuck on an island a few weeks back). I am hoping it is the fuel filter (s) or at worst the pump or primer pump. Luckily I work for a smaller company within Mercury so if it gets expensive, I may be able to get an employee discount.

 

[Ronnie]

Yes, I was having the same symptoms. That is, hard starting sometimes and when it did start it would sometimes just die unexpectedly.

 

[Stormcat918]

Yes, I was having the same symptoms. That is, hard starting sometimes and when it did start it would sometimes just die unexpectedly.

Ok, thanks. I am going to at least empty the tank and check the fuel out and replace the fuel filters. Hopefully the one I ordered online is here by the weekend. I'm sure that won't hurt since I have no clue what kind of maintenance was done on this.

Did you use the premix gas or did you use the oil injection (*insert technical term)? If premix gas, what ration and type of gas? From what I've already read about these engines, the oil sending pump gives out frequently and burns up your engine so a lot of people take it out of the equation. Seems legitimate to me, but I'm new to the boat scene.

 

[Ronnie]

I had the fuel filters replaced during the carb rebuild. As I recall there were at least two, one in the tank and an inline filter. I didn't premix, just used the stock system which pumped oil from a separate tank but th tech checked the oil pump when the carbs were rebuilt an said it wasn't sticking or showing any signs it would fail soon. If the carbs are just gummed up from the two stroke fuel oil mix you may be able to clean them up with carb cleaner. Just remove the carbs before you clean them and don't mess with any of the needle settings.

 

[Stormcat918]

I had the fuel filters replaced during the carb rebuild. As I recall there were at least two, one in the tank and an inline filter. I didn't premix, just used the stock system which pumped oil from a separate tank but th tech checked the oil pump when the carbs were rebuilt an said it wasn't sticking or showing any signs it would fail soon. If the carbs are just gummed up from the two stroke fuel oil mix you may be able to clean them up with carb cleaner. Just remove the carbs before you clean them and don't mess with any of the needle settings.

Maybe I will try just cleaning the carbs while I'm doing the fuel filters. I'm not sure if there is a filter in the tank or not. I will need to look into that. I just noticed that there were 2 inline fuel filters. One just before the electronic primer pump and one between the actual fuel pump and carbs.

Did you have to press the key in for a few seconds before turning the engine to prime it? I've read conflicting scenarios where some people don't think this does anything on the sugar sands. Mine doesn't seem to make a difference one way or another. Maybe that is a sign that the primer pump could be intermitent?

 

[Scottintexas]

glad to have you on board, I have no mechanical advice but @Bilmon might, You might look in the sugar sands section to find other members that have them and use the @ username to alert them,

Also, update your location on your profile page and it will show you on the user map and on your posts so we know where you are,

 

[Ronnie]

My boat a '97 euroline cyclone had the priming feature you referenced but I never or rarely used it.
I was also able to pull a little round knob out near the throttle lever which allowed me to Rev up the engine without shifting out of neutral.

There is a member here that has three sugar sand tangos not sure who now but he maybe able to help.
Try looking the sugar sands section or searching the term tango for sale
Asi think he was selling at least one of them recently , with min the past 6 weeks.

 

[Stormcat918]

I'd like to thank everyone for their time and input. After doing more research today, I have decided to perform maintenance on the entire fuel line just to get it done and not have to split it up into separate projects. Since I have no clue what has been done and when, I will be draining the gas tank (and switching to ethanol free), replacing the fuel filters, and completely rebuilding the carbs. It should cost me around $300 for the parts needed and a weekend worth of work. I will update the thread when complete to let everyone know how it went.

 

[itsdgm]

Keep us posted @Stormcat918 Hopefully you'll be all fixed up after the weekend.

 

[Bilmon]

I'd like to thank everyone for their time and input. After doing more research today, I have decided to perform maintenance on the entire fuel line just to get it done and not have to split it up into separate projects. Since I have no clue what has been done and when, I will be draining the gas tank (and switching to ethanol free), replacing the fuel filters, and completely rebuilding the carbs. It should cost me around $300 for the parts needed and a weekend worth of work. I will update the thread when complete to let everyone know how it went.

Welcome aboard. Make sure the tank vent doesn't have any obstuctions, that might do it. As for pressing the key to prime, as far as I,m aware, as wired from the factory it has no effect. I know alot of guys rewire it to work as a primer for better cold starts,Not sure of exact procedure but I think the info can still be found in the old posts on wwwjetboating.net thats the old near dead SugarSand and Seadoo forum

 

[Bilmon]

here's the primer mod Merc 175hp modification

 

[Stormcat918]

here's the primer mod Merc 175hp modification

Awesome, thank you. I will look into this while I'm digging around this weekend. Hopefully I will be able to complete the emptying of the gas tank and replacing fuel filters this weekend in between football and the honey do list. I'm sure this would help with the cold starting as I normally have to crank for 10 or 15 seconds before she fires up.

 

[M_JB]

Just found this forum and looks promising plus current!

As Bilmon suggested, would also visit jetboatin.net for additional info....glad they are keeping it alive.

My Tango , have owned for four years, has a sequence to start according to the guy I bought from and works great for me.
Have ran nothing but ethanol free gas, usually 91 octane because of availability. Pure-gas.org good source especially when traveling.
Open engine hatch, turn on key (not start) manually push down on the silver button on top of the enrichener valve 5 times...then start. I never crank it more than four seconds without stopping but it takes two to three times max to start...so eight to twelve seconds on average.
After initial start procedure I don't have to open engine latch again to start after stopping.
From what I have read..they were always a little hard to first start...cold natured.

Following this thread and looking forward to your success!

 

[Stormcat918]

Update... I drained the fuel and put some ethanol free gas in with my normal 50:1 gas, oil mix. I also replaced both of the inline fuel filters. While doing the filters, I cranked the engine with the top filter disconnected and gas was flowing good. After connecting everything, I cranked for a few seconds to get it primed, pushed the throttle open twice, then cranked again. It fired right up in about 3 seconds. I let it run for a minute or two then it began to rain so I turned it off and put the cover back on. This weekend I plan on firing it back up and let it run for a while to see what happens. If all goes well, next weekend I will be taking it out for water testing. If it starts doing the same thing again, I guess it will be carburetor tear down and rebuild. I will update in a week or so once I have time to get it to the water.

 

[Stormcat918]

Another update. I ran the boat in the driveway for 15 or 20 minutes with no issues, not even a hiccup. Turned it off and waited about half hour and went to start it and it wouldn't start. 2 hours later it started and ran just fine again. At this point I'm convinced that something is going on with the carbs. Now I'm up in the air whether I want to do a full carb rebuild ($80 for each carb kit) or just take them off and clean them ($20 for each gasket kit).

Now I know why they say the best two days of boat ownership is the day you buy it and the day you sell it!