SVHO Aftermarket Catch Can...Why?

[Ozark]

I see aftermarket catch cans recommended over and over for the SVHO engines. The SVHO (at least the 2020+) has a factory installed oil separator AKA catch can. Is the factory installed oil separator inadequate at performing its job?

The only difference I see in the factory installed oil separator and an aftermarket catch can is where the "separated" oil ends up. The factory oil separator returns the "separated" oil to the oil pan, whereas the aftermarket catch can keeps it stored separate for disposal. If the goal was to prevent the "separated" oil from returning to the oil pan via the factory oil separator, then the aftermarket catch can would need to be installed upstream of the factory oil separator. Everyone seems to be installing the aftermarket catch cans downstream of the factory oil separator, so I don't believe that is the goal.

It seems that adding an aftermarket catch can in this application provides no benefit, only an extra point of failure or potential pushback from the dealer on warranty work due to emissions alteration.

I am all for prolonging the life of my engine, especially with relatively easy mods. I am hoping someone can explain to me the benefit of an aftermarket catch can for this specific application.

The factory oil separator I am referring to is #5 in the attached diagram, pulled directly from a 2020-2021 195S Service Manual.

 

[haknslash]

The goal of a catch can isn’t to keep it separated from the oil pan. It’s to prevent blow-by from entering the intake.

 

[Ozark]

@haknslash Is that not exactly what the factory installed oil separator is doing?

 

[Ozark]

To simplify my question, What is the point of adding an aftermarket catch can when it already has a factory installed oil separator (catch can)? Everyone seems to be circling back to explaining what a catch can does, but that is not what I am asking.

 

[haknslash]

@haknslash Is that not exactly what the factory installed oil separator is doing?

Looks like its taking oil from the head like a crankcase vent would do. I‘m guessing you’re reading stuff on PWC forums? Not many here run catch cans on these boats, so I assume by everyone you mean people outside this forum.

 

[Ozark]

@haknslash Can you elaborate on that? Are you saying the factory oil separator is performing a separate duty than what an aftermarket catch can would do?

If you refer to the diagram in the the first post, there is a hose labeled "A" coming off of the factory oil separator assembly (#5). Hose "A" runs to the factory air intake. People are installing the aftermarket catch cans on hose "A". Therefore the aftermarket catch can is downstream of the factory oil separator. This would mean the aftermarket catch can serves no purpose except to attempt to do what the factory oil separator has already done. (Remove oil from the vapor mix)

The only way installing an aftermarket catch can makes any sense in this specific application is if the factory oil separator is inadequate in removing oil from the vapor and this secondary aftermarket catch can is necessary to pick up its slack.

 

[Ozark]

@haknslash No PWC forums for me. I have a 2021 195S and this is the only relatable forum I am on. I have stumbled on quite a few posts/people on here advocating for installing aftermarket catch cans on these boats. Just hoping to gain a better insight on why, as from what I am seeing it does not make any sense.

 

[212s]

@haknslash Is that not exactly what the factory installed oil separator is doing?

No it's not, the separator feeds the gasses back into the engine intake as I mentioned in another thread.

A catch can vents the gasses to atmosphere (which is illegal) and catches any residue, which means the engines are getting just fuel/air mixture for peak performance.

Is it worth the change? By itself, no because you would never notice the difference. Combined with many other mods to improve performance, then yes all the little things add up to a boost in performance. But this one alone is a waste of time.

 

[Canuckjetboater]

No it's not, the separator feeds the gasses back into the engine intake as I mentioned in another thread.

A catch can vents the gasses to atmosphere (which is illegal) and catches any residue, which means the engines are getting just fuel/air mixture for peak performance.

Is it worth the change? By itself, no because you would never notice the difference. Combined with many other mods to improve performance, then yes all the little things add up to a boost in performance. But this one alone is a waste of time.

@212s ....agree 100%. It was originally implemented as an EPA specification to prevent combustion by products as in blow by from venting to the atmosphere. These devices have evolved from simple vents with sponge-like materials to full return systems. BTW to alter this system, at least where I boat, is an automatic $1,200.00 fine and a second event is a vehicle seizure. The after market part in this instance is meaningless as far as enhanced performance is concerned, in my opinion. BTW the ribbon delete is also illegal re-EPA legislation and will also void Yamaha OEM Warranty.

 

[2kwik4u]

The benefit of an aftermarket catch system versus a factory catch system is to prevent the oil/air mixture from re-entering the intake. The final destination of the oil is of no concern, and there is little/no performance benefit. It's a cleanliness issue.

In particular on direct injection engines, oil buildup on the intake side of the valves is an issue. This buildup reduces flow area, and in extreme cases can cause premature valve seal wear, and prevent the valve from closing properly. Those are EVERY extreme cases, but I've seen them in poorly maintained engines.

In an engine that has injectors in the manifold instead of directly into the cylinder (this is how the SVHO Yamaha's are setup BTW), the incoming fuel/air mixture cleans the back side (intake side), and "washes" away these deposits.

In a Yamaha Boat, there is no benefit to running an aftermarket catch can. The factory setup will do just fine.

 

[1WetBoat]

On SVHO(supercharged) engines folks in the PWC community run them to primarily prevent the oil vapors from coating the intercooler and the supercharger wheel. Both are after the "oil Vapor" hose on the intake and before the intake plenum. On the Rotax supercharged engines the problem is actually worse than on the Yamaha engines and you hear of folks removing their intercoolers and the fins are coated. I honestly don't think it is needed on Yamaha engines, especially on boats were we aren't doing any modding to the SVHO engines themselves.

 

[2kwik4u]

On SVHO(supercharged) engines folks in the PWC community run them to primarily prevent the oil vapors from coating the intercooler and the supercharger wheel. Both are after the "oil Vapor" hose on the intake and before the intake plenum. On the Rotax supercharged engines the problem is actually worse than on the Yamaha engines and you hear of folks removing their intercoolers and the fins are coated. I honestly don't think it is needed on Yamaha engines, especially on boats were we aren't doing any modding to the SVHO engines themselves.

Coating on the impeller and intercooler IS a good reason to add a catch can. I personally would tie it back into the drain to the oil pan instead of collecting/discarding it.

 

[Neutron]

On SVHO(supercharged) engines folks in the PWC community run them to primarily prevent the oil vapors from coating the intercooler and the supercharger wheel. Both are after the "oil Vapor" hose on the intake and before the intake plenum. On the Rotax supercharged engines the problem is actually worse than on the Yamaha engines and you hear of folks removing their intercoolers and the fins are coated. I honestly don't think it is needed on Yamaha engines, especially on boats were we aren't doing any modding to the SVHO engines themselves.

This exactly the reason i have heard to add one

 

[Canuckjetboater]

This exactly the reason i have heard to add one

@Neutron ...... one consideration: altering will reduce the value of your warranty or a claim to the square root of zero. It is an emissions control so if you live in California you might receive the death penalty (I think they retained that for polluters?)

 

[haknslash]

The ribbon doesn’t have anything to do with emissions. It’s there as a safety feature that was a OE installed requirement that all boats have a spark arresting device (this stems from the old carburetor days). Removing it is not going to cause your warranty to be void either, assuming you’re not taking it for intake issues or something where the ribbon could be identified as the root cause (ie if you take it in because your jet pump isn’t sealed they aren’t going to void because you removed the ribbon). Thankfully the 1.8 still uses a separate ribbon and it’s not integrated into a plastic manifold like the TR1 has. So if you were worried and had to take it in for any work, you could simply reinstall and nobody knows the wiser.

This stuff reminds me of my KTM when I had to desmog the damn thing just so it could idle on its own. They were plumbing crankcase and other oil vents back into the carb. It also had a catch can that would contain these droplets of oil. Poor exhaust was the size of your pinky from the restricter inside the muffler. Hell even the vapors from the damn gas tank were being captured lol. I yanked and cut all that crap off my bike, remapped it and she ran like the beastly 530cc thumper she was supposed to be!

Just look at all this useless shit...

 

[Canuckjetboater]

The ribbon doesn’t have anything to do with emissions. It’s there as a safety feature that was a OE installed requirement that all boats have a spark arresting device (this stems from the old carburetor days). Removing it is not going to cause your warranty to be void either, assuming you’re not taking it for intake issues or something where the ribbon could be identified as the root cause (ie if you take it in because your jet pump isn’t sealed they aren’t going to void because you removed the ribbon). Thankfully the 1.8 still uses a separate ribbon and it’s not integrated into a plastic manifold like the TR1 has. So if you were worried and had to take it in for any work, you could simply reinstall and nobody knows the wiser.

This stuff reminds me of my KTM when I had to desmog the damn thing just so it could idle on its own. They were plumbing crankcase and other oil vents back into the carb. It also had a catch can that would contain these droplets of oil. Poor exhaust was the size of your pinky from the restricter inside the muffler. Hell even the vapors from the damn gas tank were being captured lol. I yanked and cut all that crap off my bike, remapped it and she ran like the beastly 530cc thumper she was supposed to be!

Just look at all this useless shit...

View attachment 142828

Removal of your spark arrestor (ribbon delete) on a jet boat or its twin on a carbed I/O IS considered part of emissions and removing it WILL not only void any Yamaha engine warranty but likely also your marine insurance. Given that and that doing so will make no noticeable difference for 99% of boaters is not wise.

 

[haknslash]

A spark arrestor on a throttle body in this era is debatable but you’re welcome to do whatever you want to your boat, as are others to theirs.

As for the gains in a 1.8 they tend to speak for themselves IMO and plenty of info on here. Buddy of mine has an SX240 and removed the ribbons and that thing flew well over 50 mph. On a SC SHO 192 I didn’t see much of an increase in top speed but it did improve throttle response and changed the sound of the engine since it wasn’t breathing through a straw lol.

No mechanic at a dealership is going to go snooping around and randomly tear apart your intake when he’s replacing an impeller, changing your oil etc or do anything unless they suspect there is a reason. If you ever had to take the boat in for work reinstalling the ribbons on an NA 1.8 looks to be simple and much less involved than say the SC 1.8 boats.

 

[Crob83]

@Neutron ...... one consideration: altering will reduce the value of your warranty or a claim to the square root of zero. It is an emissions control so if you live in California you might receive the death penalty (I think they retained that for polluters?)

Removing the catch can and installing back the factory hose would take about 15 minutes

 

[Neutron]

Removing the catch can and installing back the factory hose would take about 15 minutes

Exactly

 

[Canuckjetboater]

A spark arrestor on a throttle body in this era is debatable but you’re welcome to do whatever you want to your boat, as are others to theirs.

As for the gains in a 1.8 they tend to speak for themselves IMO and plenty of info on here. Buddy of mine has an SX240 and removed the ribbons and that thing flew well over 50 mph. On a SC SHO 192 I didn’t see much of an increase in top speed but it did improve throttle response and changed the sound of the engine since it wasn’t breathing through a straw lol.

No mechanic at a dealership is going to go snooping around and randomly tear apart your intake when he’s replacing an impeller, changing your oil etc or do anything unless they suspect there is a reason. If you ever had to take the boat in for work reinstalling the ribbons on an NA 1.8 looks to be simple and much less involved than say the SC 1.8 boats.

@haknslash .... In my opinion a lot of work for nothing and a potential downside as well. If anyone wants a real gain then wait until warranty is over and install an aftermarket exhaust and flash the ECU. As for not knowing what has been done to an engine - take that same 15 minutes, install a Yamaha oem cable and link to a laptop with oem Yamaha tech software on it and see what it tells you. You think if serious money is on the line potential non-approved mods won't be checked (now that IS funny). If you have a major engine problem do you really think you'd have the time to re-install that ribbon "puck" - so, again a lot of work for nothing with a potential downside.