The Texas School Shooting

[BlkGS]

I was really hesitant to even start this, but I know a lot of others on here are parents, and honestly, I just wanted someplace to put down my thoughts. I know that this conversation will inevitably go to some hot button places, so I'd like everyone to remember that several families were destroyed by this evil person and their actions. Several families aren't going to ever see their wives, husband's, siblings, or children alive again because of this tragedy.




This one has hit me hard, I've got a little guy now, and he and my wife are traveling this week so I didn't even get to give him an extra hug. So, my thoughts as best I can put them together, in no real order.

Why wasn't the school locked down? The idea that an intruder could just waltz into a classroom freely is just unacceptable.

The monster's high school should have known about them, and informed someone about them.

The former friend said they stopped being their friend after being told they slashed their face up with a knife. The ex friend should have said something to anyone who would listen.

Facebook and other social media outlets should have flagged this before it happened. I guarantee their profile on the monster included enough info that it was clear they were dangerous. These companies should be criminally and monetarily liable for not reporting information like this.

One of the police who responded lost their child there. That's so beyond heavy I don't even have words.

I don't have a solution for this. There's so many places that as a society we needed to do better. It's something that the fix won't fit neatly into a party line buzzword. I hope that we are able to come together with some common sense and figure it out, but I'm afraid we will not.

 

[thefortunes]

The latest reporting is that the school is, in fact, locked down and that the shooter actually encountered and got past (shot) a police officer on the way in a "back door."

Sorry, this shit doesn't happen in other countries where semi-automatic weapons aren't sold to anyone who wants one.

THERE HAVE BEEN 212 MASS SHOOTINGS IN 2022, AND 27 SCHOOL SHOOTINGS WITH INJURIES OR DEATHS,

 

[BlkGS]

The latest reporting is that the school is, in fact, locked down and that the shooter actually encountered and got past a police officer on the way in a "back door."

Sorry, this shit doesn't happen in other countries where semi-automatic weapons aren't sold to anyone who wants one.

THERE HAVE BEEN 212 MASS SHOOTINGS IN 2022, AND 27 SCHOOL SHOOTINGS WITH INJURIES OR DEATHS,

Let's not fool ourselves into thinking that violence is a uniquely American issue. Whether it happens via guns, stabbings, bombs, poisons, or vehicles, bad people commit acts of violence like this worldwide.

Violence is not a weapon issue, it's a people issue. You take away the weapon, they find another one. Not recognizing the root cause of this issue and solving that is just a recipe for continued violence IMO. Not saying there's not common sense things that we can do to help regarding guns, just that it's not at all the root cause or fix.

As an aside.... You're aware semi automatic literally just means "one shot at a time without a manual reload"? It's one of those words like assault rifle that's just intended to sound scary, rather than add any meaningful value to a conversation.

 

[HangOutdoors]

Violence is not a weapon issue, it's a people issue. You take away the weapon, they find another one. Not recognizing the root cause of this issue and solving that is just a recipe for continued violence IMO. Not saying there's not common sense things that we can do to help regarding guns, just that it's not at all the root cause or fix.

Agreed

 

[thefortunes]

Let's not fool ourselves into thinking that violence is a uniquely American issue. Whether it happens via guns, stabbings, bombs, poisons, or vehicles, bad people commit acts of violence like this worldwide.

Violence is not a weapon issue, it's a people issue. You take away the weapon, they find another one. Not recognizing the root cause of this issue and solving that is just a recipe for continued violence IMO. Not saying there's not common sense things that we can do to help regarding guns, just that it's not at all the root cause or fix.

As an aside.... You're aware semi automatic literally just means "one shot at a time without a manual reload"? It's one of those words like assault rifle that's just intended to sound scary, rather than add any meaningful value to a conversation.

And yet there aren't 212 mass killings via knife, bomb, poison or vehicles so far in 2022.

Statistically, no, this (mass killings, not violence) is an American issue. We all know why.

Yes, I am aware of the various types of weapons. It's amazing that some feel they need a 30 round mag to hunt deer.

 

[BlkGS]

And yet there aren't 212 mass killings via knife, bomb, poison or vehicles in 2022. SMH

Statistically, no, this is an American issue. We all know why.

Yes, I am aware of the various types of weapons. It's amazing that some feel they need a 30 round mag to hunt deer.

I don't disagree that you don't need a 30 round magazine for hunting. I'm not going to argue your numbers (though I will point out a large portion are gang related violence that is a separate issue). But you're attempting to put blame on a tool. Blame goes on the people, period. As I said, if we took away the guns, they'd just drive cars through crowds, or plant IEDs, or any other horrific action. You have to stop the people, not the tool. You don't treat the symptoms, you treat the disease.

 

[Ronnie]

I remember someone posted something similar when the Sandy Hook school shooting occurred about 10 years ago. It may have been to yamahajetboaters.net . At the time my only kid was in elementary school and when he got home that day I did what the poster recommended, hugged him as tight as I could for as long as I could.

one of the reports I read about the Texas shooter is that he purchased two semi-automatic rifles soon after his 18th birthday. To think that didn’t raise any red flags would have been unbelievable to me after sandy hook and before yesterday’s massacre.

Unfortunately I don’t think anything is going to change, it’s big news today, there will be the usual memorials, moments of silence, hands clasped in prayer, etc. then it will happen again, and again and again. The manufacturers will continue to make money, will continue to financially support politicians that vote in their favor and the second amendment will survive unchanged. Yesterday was a sad day for America what’s sadder still is that as a society we have had too many sad days already and we have not done much to prevent them from recurring. IMHO hope and prayer don’t count.

 

[thefortunes]

...IMHO hope and prayer don’t count.

Nor do the use of the new buzzwords "horrifying and heartbreaking."

It's almost like a memo was sent out to stop using "thoughts and prayers" since it became a meme.

BTW you are correct. Nothing will change. Sad.

 

[Inthrustwetrust]

And yet there aren't 212 mass killings via knife, bomb, poison or vehicles so far in 2022.

Statistically, no, this (mass killings, not violence) is an American issue. We all know why.

Yes, I am aware of the various types of weapons. It's amazing that some feel they need a 30 round mag to hunt deer.

How many of those are associated with other illegal activity (gangs and drugs)? How many of these perpetrators are kids from broken homes exposed to violence in todays society/media? It’s a culture problem. Radio host on Sirus XM today went on a 2 minute rant about changing current laws, then played a song full of “F this, F that, F that N” etc. How many video games are full of violence that kids are playing?

I’ve been to many places firearms are illegal for the public to possess, and I’ve seen many atrocities committed in these places committed with firearms, and without. The common denominator is not the weapon, it’s a societal acceptance of violence and a lack of proper role models and positive societal experience in and out of the home.

 

[thefortunes]

How many of those are associated with other illegal activity (gangs and drugs)? How many of these perpetrators are kids from broken homes exposed to violence in todays society/media? It’s a culture problem. Radio host on Sirus XM today went on a 2 minute rant about changing current laws, then played a song full of “F this, F that, F that N” etc. How many video games are full of violence that kids are playing?

I’ve been to many places firearms are illegal for the public to possess, and I’ve seen many atrocities committed in these places committed with firearms, and without. The common denominator is not the weapon, it’s a societal acceptance of violence and a lack of proper role models and positive societal experience in and out of the home.

Lol blame the music, media, video games. Deflect deflect.

I also have been around the world - 35 countries at last count, I believe, including some pretty "scary" ones. You know what they all have in common? A lack of mass killings and school shootings. You know why? Yes you do.

No one here is going to change each other's minds and the status quo will continue.

I am still curious what the need is for a semi-automatic weapon in the US.

 

[BigN8]

This was a tragic event. My heart goes out to the parents. But it’s sad that these deaths get the media sensationalism when it’s not really a true depiction of what is killing our citizens. Do some research. Fentanyl kills an American citizen every 8.3 minutes. Buts it’s not sensational. So it gets no media coverage. It comes into our country thru an open and unchecked border in the South. I have 2 kids and my greatest fear is they will be at a party or with friends and be poisoned by some kind of fentanyl laced weed. I had a relative and her friend found dead in a motel room in SC last year due to fentanyl poisoning. They were both 22 years old.

 

[sunbyrned]

Why wasn't the school locked down? The idea that an intruder could just waltz into a classroom freely is just unacceptable.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. Schools are no gun zones so that makes them an easy target. I’m a teacher and actually had a gunman looking for me. I wasn’t at work that day and was contacted by the police. They said to stay off campus. Why this guy could get on campus I’ll never know. A big “no guns” sign on every door doesn’t help. I heard a former FBI agent on the news today say that there are things that can be in place at schools such as bullet proof glass or blankets that can go over the windows, a fence around the perimeter and one entrance monitored by security. If those things aren’t in place, don’t send your kid to school there. I tend to agree but it’s going to take some hellacious hell raising to get those steps to happen.

 

[thefortunes]

This was a tragic event. My heart goes out to the parents. But it’s sad that these deaths get the media sensationalism when it’s not really a true depiction of what is killing our citizens. Do some research. Fentanyl kills an American citizen every 8.3 minutes. Buts it’s not sensational. So it gets no media coverage. It comes into our country thru an open and unchecked border in the South. I have 2 kids and my greatest fear is they will be at a party or with friends and be poisoned by some kind of fentanyl laced weed. I had a relative and her friend found dead in a motel room in SC last year due to fentanyl poisoning. They were both 22 years old.

Here (link to the NEJM) is why it gets attention. A firearm-related injury is now the leading cause of death among children and adolescents:

 

[Stan M]

This was a tragic event. My heart goes out to the parents. But it’s sad that these deaths get the media sensationalism when it’s not really a true depiction of what is killing our citizens. Do some research. Fentanyl kills an American citizen every 8.3 minutes. Buts it’s not sensational. So it gets no media coverage. It comes into our country thru an open and unchecked border in the South. I have 2 kids and my greatest fear is they will be at a party or with friends and be poisoned by some kind of fentanyl laced weed. I had a relative and her friend found dead in a motel room in SC last year due to fentanyl poisoning. They were both 22 years old.

Interesting post. Anecdotally, I don't personally know anyone who had been killed in a mass shooting. I know dozens who have died this way. Just saying.

 

[2kwik4u]

Our oldest is 10. There was a couple of victims of this atrocity that were 10.

I had to get up and physically change the channel and take the wife for a walk it hit her so heavily. Once the tears dried up, and she got all the "they were just kids" out of her system, her first comment was "Why the fuck are all the stupid people still in charge?"......and she hit the nail on the head IMO.

We can argue until we're blue in the face about how to make it happen, but any step at removing this level of lethality from the hands of JQPublic needs to happen. And if you one second you think some level of second amendment rights bullshit response is adequate you can fuck right off. There is no amount of lives that are worth anyone owning anything this side of a bolt action rifle.

I've said my thoughts and will leave it at that. This is such a hot button issue for me, I'm not gonna engage any further. I like you guys too much.

 

[Drift Away]

Lol blame the music, media, video games. Deflect deflect.

I also have been around the world - 35 countries at last count, I believe, including some pretty "scary" ones. You know what they all have in common? A lack of mass killings and school shootings. You know why? Yes you do.

No one here is going to change each other's minds and the status quo will continue.

I am still curious what the need is for a semi-automatic weapon in the US.

Rosa Parks didn't need to sit in front of the bus she had a right too. So if I go out tonight and get drunk Get a car accident and kill someone do we blame Dodge, Jim bean, the bar tender or just maybe the person who got behind the wheel of a truck? So should we ban Ram trucks? Jim bean? Or close all bars down? I have alot of guns and none of them have jumped out of my gun safe and killed anyone on their own. And I have been to a few of those "scary places too". If you don't think they have shootings over there you're blind or just plain ignorant. We just have media coverage.

 

[BlkGS]

This was a tragic event. My heart goes out to the parents. But it’s sad that these deaths get the media sensationalism when it’s not really a true depiction of what is killing our citizens. Do some research. Fentanyl kills an American citizen every 8.3 minutes. Buts it’s not sensational. So it gets no media coverage. It comes into our country thru an open and unchecked border in the South. I have 2 kids and my greatest fear is they will be at a party or with friends and be poisoned by some kind of fentanyl laced weed. I had a relative and her friend found dead in a motel room in SC last year due to fentanyl poisoning. They were both 22 years old.

A friend of a family member recently died this way, overdosed on fentanyl from some cocaine at a party. This worried me less, because it's just a matter of raising your kids to recognize that drugs are dangerous, bad, and illegal for a reason. People who use, have, and sell drugs are bad people. It would be a lot easier if the media and entertainment industry would stop glorifying them, but alas, they're "artists" and above the public good.

Interesting to note, no celebrity has died from an accidental fentanyl OD yet. It's only nobodies. That to me says, it's being done intentionally, and they're avoiding poisoning a group of high visibility, high risk targets. They know if a Johnny Depp, kesha, or similar were to I'd on fentanyl they'd risk too much attention and a return of policies that prevent this.

Why a group is intentionally adding this poison to drugs is still something I can't fathom yet. I assume it's sponsored by an enemy of the US, likely China, but who knows?

 

[I_squared_r]

I was maybe 19 or 20 years old when I bought my AR15 and 30 round magazines. I walked into a gun store, picked my gun, my accessories, and my 30 round preban magazines. The next day I picked up my things. I don't think the majority of non-firearm owners understand how easy it is to buy.

I believe in the 2nd amendment and understand both the left and right arguments. Left- Do more extensive background checks and licensure. Right- Do more for mental health people because we know America is FULL of crazies. Here's a crazy idea: Do both! I don't think America has woken to the fact that we don't need to be polarized on every ****ing issue.

My friend said to me last week "you wouldn't believe how many people at my job believe that Sandy Hook is a conspiracy. It's ****ing stupid". I didn't think much of that conversation until I spoke with another "friend" who has a concealed carry permit for his business. It's nearly impossible to get that in NY. He didn't hesitate to tell me "wasn't sandy hook a conspiracy theory?" and he begun to tell me that the Texas school shooting is a conspiracy by the government. I didn't have nice words for him and told him that he's an idiot. Wtf???? This is exactly the people that we DONT want to have guns.

Lastly, my anecdotal evidence, take from it what you want. Brazil doesn't have mass shooting problems and it's difficult to get a gun. I think it's just for people in law enforcement or people who can prove they need it (think, concealed carry permit rules of USA but applied to every brazilian firearm). It's rare for a Brazilian to have a firearm and I think that most aren't comfortable with them. It seems like a good idea to imitate the Brazilian laws until you see that the criminals have access to illegal firearms. But the criminals typically kill each other and aren't shooting up schools.

Surely there is something that we can do to alleviate this problem. There's a lot of smart people in this country. Now only if smart people elected smart public officials...

 

[BlkGS]

I could go into a long diatribe about why gun control won't fix this here. I'm not going to bother though, because the points should be ebvious enough.

Suffice to say gun control is a distraction and deflection from the root cause of this issue.

This monster had EVERY warning sign possible. No family structure, he was raised by his grandparents. A history of violence. A history of mental issues. An outcast that even the other outcasts didn't want to associate with. A sudden change to not going to school, that ended with a trigger event of not graduating HS. This case was clear cut, writing on the wall, and the systems that exist to protect people from monsters like this failed.

I think it's clear that this monster, between their past and the or online presence, should have been on a watch list for law enforcement. I wouldn't even disagree that they should have been on a list that would prevent them from buying guns (though I recognize this would have just pushed them to acquire their weapons from other sources). Their online activity should have been closely monitored, with any red flags (of which they posted several) being immediate cause for LEO notification and response.

There were so many opportunities to prevent this, but the tech companies and schools and friends and family and everyone dropped the ball, resulting in this tragedy. Because so many things had to not happen to let this tragedy occur, the solution isn't going to be a simple 2 words fix. It's going to require coordination between the education system, tech companies, law enforcement, and regular people. You're not going to solve this by pointing fingers and making accusations and outrage. You solve this by bringing everyone with a piece of the puzzle together, and asking them to all do their part to prevent it.

 

[Beachbummer]

So, let me make the argument that guns increase the number of dead.

Guns are tools, they allow the operator to more quickly harm others as compared to when they don't have a gun. Same as a drill allows the operator to make more holes, more quickly than if they had to be made by hand. Shovel vs backhoe. It's a tool that makes the operator much faster at the task

(agree or disagree? If we don't agree here we must reconcile that. I don't think this is controversial. A gun makes it faster and easier to kill more people as compared to when I don't have a gun on me, agreed?. It's ok if you don't agree, please explain why)

Given this, and the erratic be and mentally disturbed nature of these rogue actors, the gun allows them to be much more effective at the task than if they were not available.
(Say, with a knife or chain saw, they could attack only 1 or 2 vs 20 on a similar event)
Agreed? If not why?



Having established a gun makes it easier to kill more people quickly.... What's the fix? If any?

Are we willing to give up the benefits of having accessible weapons available legally? There are none at my house, but I'm not unhappy a likely robber has doubts in my area because I'm in a Houston neighborhood full of people with small arsenals in their home. If the Chinese try to invade they are screwed.

Australia transitioned to fewer weapons, it's an invasive process that relies on trust of the government and willingness to lose freedom on exchange for security... pretty much confiscating majority of legal weapons. Not really a decision embedded in the DNA of our country.

People kill people, but if we don't accept that guns help people kill people much faster, we are not clearly hearing the argument. Whether it's something that the government has the willingness and power to address is another matter.

And, assuming the government could pull it off,(total confiscation as a fix) it would get much worse before it got better, as for a time while illegal guns were hunted down, law abiding citizens would return to the disadvantaged position of confronting crime with no weapons, as they would have been legally returned, and we are back to only the bad guys being armed, at least until all their weapons are also confiscated(in theory)

Solution? No idea.