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Thrust Vectors

newbote

Jet Boat Addict
Messages
125
Reaction score
33
Points
107
Location
Fort Mill SC
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2016
Boat Model
Limited S
Boat Length
24
I now have about 15 hours on my boat and am contemplating thrust vectors. I am ok with the forward steering control - as its almost as good as an outboard at slow speeds. However, the reverse control is what is really is poor in these boats. Do the thrust vectors make any difference for reverse control? I have not had any issues yet but I don't think I would try backing into a slip based on the lack of control in reverse.

Looking for opinions on the 15+ 24 ft boats on whether you would install these just for better reverse control.
 
I've had fins on my both 2008 and my 2013. I think they help forward low speed handling only.
 
Wait, these can do more than just forward WOT? Learn something new every day!
 
Not speaking for the manufacturer ... they might claim the Thrust Vectors help with reverse as well. But, my experience with two different boats with fins ... my skills handing in Reverse sucked equally on both boats.
 
I now have about 15 hours on my boat and am contemplating thrust vectors. I am ok with the forward steering control - as its almost as good as an outboard at slow speeds. However, the reverse control is what is really is poor in these boats. Do the thrust vectors make any difference for reverse control? I have not had any issues yet but I don't think I would try backing into a slip based on the lack of control in reverse.

Looking for opinions on the 15+ 24 ft boats on whether you would install these just for better reverse control.
The fins that help the reverse would be Cobra FANGS. Those project forward of the nozzle and help channel the water in reverse, albeit primarily designed to provide "power steering" effect as I understand it. With a 2016 240 Jeff recommends AKs w/fangs (so those are only two fins, not 4 as in Ultimates) which help the reverse some, but it is still pretty lousy with Yamaha boat strait buckets (as opposed to BRP boats which have a much better steering in reverse, albeit backwards, with their side-thrust buckets).

--
 
It may be time to refresh the MAGNUM A K system information for the benefit of the new members.
When Yamaha first came out with the twin engine 24 foot articulating keel . I identified several areas that I felt could be improve on.
First when you take a jet boat and build a large keel under it you change the handling considerably to the point the boat wants to go in a straight line and the faster you go the more it wants to go straight, thus resisting turning as quickly as a non keel hull.
Adding a rudder in the center of the boat behind the large keel partially shielded it , this shielding keeps the rudder from having immediate influence on the hulls direction.
Obviously the rudder also has a large amount of force being applied to it being applied to the right hand nozzle and steering cable ONLY!
For some reason the steering cables were reported to be failing and at one point they were unavailable on backorder last year if I recall correctly. Perhaps this was a direct effect of the imbalanced steering input from only one side of the helm.
Next was the helm itself, I am guessing with a large amount of certainty that the helm was changed to reduce the increased amount of steering resistance felt in the wheel by the operator during high speed turns due to the resistance from the large rudder .
This was my conclusion because the steering travel was doubled. Simply put it was geared down , the original steering wheel on Yamaha jet boats would travel from 12 o'clock to 3 o'clock for a full right turn and from 12 o'clock to 9 o'clock for a full left turn, Now with the new helm the distance for a full turn is from 12 o'clock to 6 o'clock both ways. Unfortunately this also reduces the response ratio of the steering from the helm . So A large boat with a large rudder needs more input from the steering system at all speeds. This system also could use a second tie rod to balance out all the work load and create redundancy if one side ever failed.
So The magnum A K system was designed and first introduced here in June of 2015
https://jetboaters.net/threads/cobr...wing-you-the-magnum-a-k-steering-system.6093/
a-k-series-jpg.23238


Since then this system has become very popular for obvious reasons.
I then began designing FANGS for the ultimate and regular Magnum steering systems, and decided to make a simple inexpensive add on set of fangs for the Magnum A K steering, the fangs are smaller fins that create power steering by placing some fin surface ahead of the pivot point on the fins this catches the force of the water traveling past it ant the water turns the steering for you, and that also reduces the real force applied to the steering components. Yea pretty good but that is NOT ALL as they say. because the Yamaha nozzle is so different than other nozzles, The water for reverse shoots out from under the nozzle toward the front of the boat, this is accomplished by having a second opening under the nozzle and a reverse door come down and close the regular water exit opening of the nozzle forcing the water out the bottom. However the water fans out pretty quickly. The fang is along side the opening and it helps to direct the water under the boat keeping the thrust aimed better and the extra fin surface helps as well. So you now have more control in reverse than a stock boat although you still have to deal with the keel resisting the boat turning.
image-jpeg.37788

There are many people on this web page that have this system added to their boats with great results, the price and the 30 day guarantee is also inviting and I know it has been forever but I have personally been holding a model 19 to the head of my son in law to get the new web page finished, his kidney transplant went great and he is now working on it diligently " so he says" we shall see. Any questions feel free to email me if you like jeff@cobrajetsteering.com 15 years experience making jet propelled watercraft steer 3 us patents and another pending, if you are not smiling when you drive your jet boat you probably don't have COPBRA JET STEERING.
 
Jeff thanks for the education. I think your products are great and have had them on both of my boats (former 2008 SX 230 and current 2013 242 LS). I made a point in my note regarding "my skills" handing the boat in reverse.

Tide flow, wind and a big fat boat/tower getting serious windage ... the little fins (biggest ones you made circa 2013 w/out articulating hull) and the OEM bucket position is a tall order to overcome when operating in reverse.

Love the product for low speed forward handling and will get your latest generation contraption in my next boat!!
 
I have the Cobra Ultimate's with fangs and find backing into a slip is no problem at all at low speeds.
 
What I don't like about the keeled boats is once you start turning one way in reverse it is pretty much impossible to get the stern to turn in the opposite direction, no matter how much throttle you give it. If you have a lot of space its not a big deal as I can go back forward to get the rear facing where I want it but at tight restaurant docks this doesn't necessarily work.
 
Kk do you have steering on it? or is it stock because the steering and the fangs will assist you and improve this handling deficit.
 
Kk do you have steering on it? or is it stock because the steering and the fangs will assist you and improve this handling deficit.
No its just stock - have not added anything. I have only had the boat about 3 weeks. I previously had outboard boats for 10 years but never a jet.
 
Do the new 21' hulls handle a little better at slow speeds stock given they are a little smaller, or is the Cobra system still highly recommended?
 
Jeff, I love your products unfortunately big under water floating logs don't! Thankfully I was able to straighten everything out and get back on the water. Steers so much better than stock!!big log hit.jpg log hit.jpg
 
That is quite true I have seen the entire keel yes the hull ripped open from striking a submerged object on a stock keel boat and the rudders torn of of the stock boats as well. the brackets I make are not tempered so they will just give and move up out of the way as yours did and actually if you loosen the bolt on the fin slightly you can pull it back down into place pretty easily, also if you destroy a fin and bracket in a mishap it is covered under my 49 dollar fix or replace warranty , you send it to me and I either fix it or replace it for 49 dollars or less plus shipping.
 
Thanks Jeff, I have no complaints here!! I've always received nothing but the best customer service from you from the the start. I looked at the others but I wanted something that would give me both high and low speed handling and the MAGNUM A K's work perfectly.
 
Thank you , and for those of you who don't know this. I also offer a 30 day money back guarantee, it's all on my web page along with the 49 dollar warranty info and the free domestic shipping info plus the free trade agreement info for the people in Canada so they can avoid duties and transfer fees.
 
Jeff , Do you have Fangs available for your AK series and what are their cost? Thanks!
 
yes pretty expensive though 45 dollars stand alone or 39 dollars if purchased at the same time the A K steering is purchased
 
On my old 232, I had Ultimates (I believe) and then added the fangs. it was definitely noticeable right away in no wake mode how much better the boat handled. It stayed on track and didn't wander off nearly as much as before.

I'll be curious how the AK Series with fangs works on the 242 when I get it in another month.
 
Thanks, 50 grand for the boat whats another 40 bucks! lol
Best to order directly from your website?
 
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