Truck Tow Vehicle

[BlkGS]

My lightning brakes are great. And I have a lift / big tires. Remember 1- pedal driving makes a big difference.

Interior isn’t bad at all but does lack options of color pallet.

Agree with price but I think it all depends on how much you drive. If you are driving 100-200 miles a day checking up on jobs ect - charging at home for $3.50 is a no brainer if it’s anywhere close to the same price as ICE

where it doesn’t make sense is $20k more than ICE AND you charge outside of your home.


it truly is a great platform. I also like how it isnt flashy and just looks like a regular truck for the most part. And it floats on air vs a regular f-150

not trying to sell anyone on one- I also drive a big f-350 around so those have their benefits as well.

My phrasing on the brakes was less than perfect. The brakes on the truck are fine for a truck. They're f150 brakes, no big deal. The problem with the brakes is the lightning is way the hell faster than a normal f150. It's brakes don't match it's thrust, and that I found to be very terrifyingly bad. Using the same brakes on a 7 second 0-60 truck as one that's like 4 is terrifying.

I hate the vertical screen, so much. If you could have gotten the regular f150 screen, honestly, there's a high chance I'd have bought one. The lariats I drove had weird like, fuzzy fabric on the door panels instead of leather. Maybe the platinum switched back to nice leather, I dunno. Platinum is also too expensive to qualify for the tax incentives, so that's a dud too.

I really wanted to like lightning, and to be fair I loved how it drove other than the brakes. It was hilariously fast, and it slun the tires relentlessly. If Ford had put some serious brakes on it, they'd have built a great sport truck and I would have tried really, really hard to get over that ugly ass vertical screen. I can honestly say that was one of the most fun test drives I've ever had, up until we about couldn't stop. But then we did a rolling burnout and all was fine again, lol. I'm sure you could bolt up a wilwood or stoptech big brake kit and solve a lot of it for a couple grand.

I could make a lightning work too. I don't need to tow my boat far with it, any far towing we would take the expedition. A bed would be nice to have, and the frunk solves some of the inconveniences of a truck for me storing kid stuff. I don't drive that far and I could charge at home, and 300 miles of range gets me to Disney and back on a charge. But where Ford screwed up was not just making it a powertrain option for f150. If I could buy a 2024 redesign f150 with the nice interior and the lightning powertrain and the price was cheaper than ICE, I'd be game. But that's not what Ford did, and they're gonna screw up even worse by making their next truck a ground up EV, going the exact opposite way they should of normalizing the truck.

 

[BlkGS]

Because I have problems and I couldn't sleep I looked at lightnings even more. It takes 9 hours with a level 2 wired charger to charge the damn thing, lol. That's not even full charge, that's from 15%, lol.

That said, they have really bad resale value and that makes them very attractive used. I saw a platinum that would have been 93k or something under 1000 miles listed for 62k, they've had it for a year and a half and dropped the price by 30 grand, lol. I'd guess lariats are available really cheap too. I would say there's some risk of having a vehicle that literally can't be traded out of if it doesn't work out for you.

 

[Oafy44]

My phrasing on the brakes was less than perfect. The brakes on the truck are fine for a truck. They're f150 brakes, no big deal. The problem with the brakes is the lightning is way the hell faster than a normal f150. It's brakes don't match it's thrust, and that I found to be very terrifyingly bad. Using the same brakes on a 7 second 0-60 truck as one that's like 4 is terrifying.

I hate the vertical screen, so much. If you could have gotten the regular f150 screen, honestly, there's a high chance I'd have bought one. The lariats I drove had weird like, fuzzy fabric on the door panels instead of leather. Maybe the platinum switched back to nice leather, I dunno. Platinum is also too expensive to qualify for the tax incentives, so that's a dud too.

I really wanted to like lightning, and to be fair I loved how it drove other than the brakes. It was hilariously fast, and it slun the tires relentlessly. If Ford had put some serious brakes on it, they'd have built a great sport truck and I would have tried really, really hard to get over that ugly ass vertical screen. I can honestly say that was one of the most fun test drives I've ever had, up until we about couldn't stop. But then we did a rolling burnout and all was fine again, lol. I'm sure you could bolt up a wilwood or stoptech big brake kit and solve a lot of it for a couple grand.

I could make a lightning work too. I don't need to tow my boat far with it, any far towing we would take the expedition. A bed would be nice to have, and the frunk solves some of the inconveniences of a truck for me storing kid stuff. I don't drive that far and I could charge at home, and 300 miles of range gets me to Disney and back on a charge. But where Ford screwed up was not just making it a powertrain option for f150. If I could buy a 2024 redesign f150 with the nice interior and the lightning powertrain and the price was cheaper than ICE, I'd be game. But that's not what Ford did, and they're gonna screw up even worse by making their next truck a ground up EV, going the exact opposite way they should of normalizing the truck.

ah got it. I agree with you on a lot of your comments.
it’s interesting right now. You can get a platinum for $19k off at my dealer- since it doesn’t qualify - or $15k off a lariat that does and the $15k off includes the $7500. So the platinums are within $5k now of the lariats. The problem is the platinums are basically lariats with more speakers and better leather and 22” rims. Because of supply chains they deleted everything else that makes a platinum a platinum.

My f350 has the big rectangle screen vs my tablet screen in the lighting. Both work and function as they should and really don’t like one over the other. The tablet is more of an LCD appearance while the f350 screen is more of a plasma appearance. The tablet I think is a tad easier to dial in certain things faster than the 12” rectangle screen.
For instance - climate control the tablet allows you to pull up every single function at once so you can tap 6-7 different options on one page. Same with vehicle options- all the options are on one page on the tablet which is simpler.

agree with the new platform “I think” but will hold judgement till I see it.

 

[BlkGS]

The thing I hate most about the vertical screen is that you can't do 2 things at once on it. My wife has a bad habit of maxing the AC out because she's hot at that moment, and that screen won't let you adjust both sides at once. I find that the standard knob HVAC just works faster and easier.

That's also a good point about the platinums. That makes a high option Lariat ER optioned to just under 80k to qualify for the rebate a decent value.

 

[2kwik4u]

Boy, I opened a can of worms there didn't I

 

[BlkGS]

Boy, I opened a can of worms there didn't I

Yeah, way to go jackass lol. Turns out there's lowering kits for them out already, and you can buy brand new loaded platinums for 70, the lariats are like 67, but younger that EV tax credit maybe.

All that to say, I think they're gonna really struggle to sell the EV Silverado and ram. Those are ground up, more money trucks, so I think it very unlikely they'll be cheaper than lightning. I suspect very few will qualify for the EV tax credits hurting them even more.

 

[HangOutdoors]

Boy, I opened a can of worms there didn't I

Not Really. It is very apparent that many, including people here on the forum really want to like the Lightening and make it work, it just doesn't which is unfortunate.

 

[Oafy44]

The thing I hate most about the vertical screen is that you can't do 2 things at once on it. My wife has a bad habit of maxing the AC out because she's hot at that moment, and that screen won't let you adjust both sides at once. I find that the standard knob HVAC just works faster and easier.

That's also a good point about the platinums. That makes a high option Lariat ER optioned to just under 80k to qualify for the rebate a decent value.

I think it depends on the model. The lightning /mach e updates continuously. About a year ago I got a software update that changed what your saying so you can change multiple inputs on same screen . depending on the trim you get certain updates bs other trims

that being said once you get used to it / like both my screens - it’s second nature and works fine.

eventually the tax EV incentives will just go away so really it wasn’t a major decision on which model I got because it was a company vehicle anyway. I like the straight discounts they are offering now. Also if anyone is on the fence take the plunge on a 23 vs a 24- The 23’s have 3 years bluecruise included - 24- is 90 days with a $2400 option for 3 years. While blue cruise is awesome , it’s not $2400 awesome. We have been told that blue cruise 2.0 was going to come out a year ago and still nothing. That will add more roads and switching lanes. The adaptive cruise control is basically what blue cruise was 3 years ago and is great on my f350.

The real only improvement for the 24 is they get a heat pump for cold weather. But I drove my truck in -4 last year and was still fine and performed flawlessly. Out of 320 full charge I was showing about 240 range with that temperature.

 

[BlkGS]

Not Really. It is very apparent that many, including people here on the forum really want to like the Lightening and make it work, it just doesn't which is unfortunate.

There's a lot of truth to this. I really want to like it, there's just a few things that really kill it for me. Am I overly picky about it? Maybe, but at 70 grand I don't think that you can really be overly picky. That's a lot of money for a vehicle.

I'm a big "driving experience" guy. My TBSS has long tubes and a loud exhaust. I love it. My X5 M50i barely has any exhaust sound. I don't love that as much. That said, had I not come.out of a rowdy ass sounding TBSS, I'd probably have been more ok with the lack of sound from the lightning.

At the end of the day, lightning suffers from the same thing other expensive trucks do. It's way the hell too much money! You can buy an actual luxury SUV and a small trailer that does all the pickup truck bed stuff for way less than these new trucks that pretend to be luxury cars. And you can stuff that $550 folding trailer that you don't care if it gets scratched up in your garage or a shed, and not worry about tearing up your expensive luxury truck.

 

[2kwik4u]

Not Really. It is very apparent that many, including people here on the forum really want to like the Lightening and make it work, it just doesn't which is unfortunate.

That's fair. I think that's likely true for a lot of EV's.

I'm lusting of an eTron S with Prestige Trim this morning. Looks the about the same as my Q7, is about twice as fast, but has abysmal range (like 200mi empty) compared to the competition. Brand new they're almost $100k. Used with under 15k miles they're closer to $60k. Would work if all I had to do was commute to work and back, AND had home charging. Everything else is a compromise.

They're a damn sexy looking SUV though! This guy on reddit posts a lot. Super clean vehicle.



I could likely make a Lightning work. Closer to 300mi range, and I could fast charge on the weekend outside the home. Likely get more than a week from a charge in normal usage, and 150mi round trip would get me to most of the lakes with a boat attached. But it's still $60k "on sale", and for that money i can get a no-compromise Titan, used F150/Sierra, or another sporty SUV.

 

[BlkGS]

The $10k difference between a lightning and a titan works out as a break even (assuming $3.30 a gallon, 19 mpg, and free at home charging cuz your uncle almgore gave you a solar setup to charge your truck and you only had to cut down an acre of trees to do your part saving the planet) of 60k miles or so (just under). If you start adding in the cost of a charger, at home charging, resale considerations, occasional charging not at home, you could likely push that break even out indefinitely.

Another interesting point, Ford is pretty explicit about DC fast charging hurting the battery. They say to use it in limited amounts to preserve battery capacity. So your options are charge for 9 hours at a level 2 charger, charge for 972 hours on 110v, or burn up the battery on a DC fast charger.

 

[2kwik4u]

OK, so there's a couple things here that aren't quite right. Of course everyone's numbers are a little different, but this doesn't math well.

The $10k difference between a lightning and a titan works out as a break even (assuming $3.30 a gallon, 19 mpg, and free at home charging cuz your uncle almgore gave you a solar setup to charge your truck and you only had to cut down an acre of trees to do your part saving the planet) of 60k miles or so (just under). If you start adding in the cost of a charger, at home charging, resale considerations, occasional charging not at home, you could likely push that break even out indefinitely.

It's closer to $30k total energy savings over the course of 6yrs. About $412/mo over the course of the loan if amortized.

Assumptions below:

• 23k/mi/yr is what I have been averaging over the last 10yrs.
• 6yrs is my typical car loan length
• Lightning usage might be a little high.
  • Depends on terrain and work it's doing.
  • I've seen reports as high as 2.2mi/kWh for "daily driving"
• I suspect the Titan is only getting around that 16mpg, and it takes premium.
  • I'm not sure I've heard of a single person getting 19mpg, except REALLY slow drivers on road trips
• I filled up a few hours ago in Ohio and it was $4.25/gal for 93
  • You could likely run 87 without damage, but it's not recommended.
• I'm assuming 15% losses in charging at home.
  • That is to say we have to pay for 15% MORE energy than what makes it into the pack.
• Western NY Electricity prices are absurdly cheap.
  • This might not hold in CA/FL/etc.

Let me know if there are questions.

Another interesting point, Ford is pretty explicit about DC fast charging hurting the battery. They say to use it in limited amounts to preserve battery capacity. So your options are charge for 9 hours at a level 2 charger, charge for 972 hours on 110v, or burn up the battery on a DC fast charger.

https://blog.titaniumford.ca/post/how-long-does-it-take-to-charge-a-ford-lightning <--that says 15hrs to full charge.

If you're doing exclusive home charging, there's a good chance you don't need to use the full 15hrs, as you're only replenishing what you used during the day. Assuming you use 32% (100mi of your 320mi available) during your day, you only need to put that 32% back, or about 5hrs. For home charging that seems more than reasonable, as I'm usually home "for good" each night by 10 or so. 5hrs later puts me at 3am. Even on my earliest days I'm rarely leaving before 6am. I'm also rarely using those full 100mi each day. A 9hr level 2 charge is equivalent to about ~192mi of usage. I can count on one hand the number of times I've used that many miles in a single day in the last 5yrs. Even if I did, it wasn't multiple days on end, so a few nights of "long charging" would likely get me back to full.

So many people run around with a half tank of fuel or less, but there's this feeling that having anything less than a full tank of electrons is going to leave us stranded. I don't completely get it, but also haven't lived it for more than a few days with a rental. I think exposure would build trust here.

Most of the people I know that are commuting in EV's are only charging at home a few nights a week. Going a few days between charging, just out of convenience. I also know a few that plug in as soon as they get home, somewhat religiously. Like, that's just part of the "getting home" routine. Let the dog out, get the kids in the house, get the mail in, bring in the trash cans, plug in the car, etc. I suspect once you've done it for a week or two, it's second nature, you'll have the setup figured out, and it'll be absurdly quick and a non-issue. I've never done it though, just going off what I've heard from others.

DC fast charging, for me, would only be on road trips, and now that I'm in NY, that's about it really. Most of the lakes are within a 150mi round trip, and anything further would be a "special" trip and I would have to add DCFC to the planning portion of that trip.

Level 2 is 240V, btw. Just to be pedantic

I still REALLY REALLY want an EV truck to work for me, but even with $400/mo in energy savings, It's hard to justify a $1,200/mo truck payment. PLUS, there are some thing that AREN'T in this analysis, like depreciation, maintenance, and opportunity cost on cashflow. There are also the subjective aspects to consider like personal preference, Pain-in-the-Arse factor, reluctance to change, and other things like that.

There's my brain dump on the matter for today. Fire at Will (just not at me )

 

[HangOutdoors]

I still REALLY REALLY want an EV truck to work for me, but even with $400/mo in energy savings, It's hard to justify a $1,200/mo truck payment. PLUS, there are some thing that AREN'T in this analysis, like depreciation, maintenance, and opportunity cost on cashflow. There are also the subjective aspects to consider like personal preference, Pain-in-the-Arse factor, reluctance to change, and other things like that.

Right there with you. It just doesn't work for me...... Hopefully that will change someday. The Lightenings around here used are dropping in value fast. Dealers don't even want them really from those that I talked to about the Powerboost F-150's. They mentioned that they were hot and hard to come by, now they can't find buyers for their inventory even discounted. Those whom wanted them already jumped on the band wagon. Ford indicated that they are slowing up production of them substantially.

Now that I work from my home office full time, the EV Truck even fits better because I don't drive much during the week. Unfortunately the Towing Range kills it for me.... and my payment ceiling is $500 as well.

 

[2kwik4u]

and my payment ceiling is $500 as well.

Gonna need a helluva down payment to hit that in todays market. Or lease a Corolla

 

[HangOutdoors]

Gonna need a helluva down payment to hit that in todays market. Or lease a Corolla

Not Really. I can do an F-150 XLT Pretty Loaded with Tow Package and 360 Camera, Powerboost or Ecoboost 3.5L, 4x4 crew cab and have a payment right there and a bit less on a 2 or 3 yr. lease with nothing down. Been toying with the idea since just before Christmas. But still driving the Expedition and maintaining it. Seating is a big factor for the Family. If and when I pay off the Expedition maybe this year or next, I would let it sit and then just lease a truck or other.... hopefully not... for my every day and use the Expedition just when I need to get more than 5 to the lake. Just don't want a second payment right now.

 

[2kwik4u]

Not Really. I can do an F-150 XLT Pretty Loaded with Tow Package and 360 Camera, Powerboost or Ecoboost 3.5L, 4x4 crew cab and have a payment right there and a bit less on a 2 or 3 yr. lease with nothing down. Been toying with the idea since just before Christmas. But still driving the Expedition and maintaining it. Seating is a big factor for the Family. If and when I pay off the Expedition maybe this year or next, I would let it sit and then just lease a truck or other.... hopefully not... for my every day and use the Expedition just when I need to get more than 5 to the lake. Just don't want a second payment right now.

That's honestly not bad on a lease. Didn't think you could get there with the current market, rates, and such.

 

[HangOutdoors]

On an XLT you can get there, especially for remaining 2023 Models.

 

[BlkGS]

@2kwik4u Yeah, I was being lazy and didn't want to do a FULL calculation. We also math'd two different things. I math'd how much FL gas can I buy for the $10k difference. You applied it to the much more expensive situation you have, lol.

I don't disagree with your comments about being fully charged all the time. I think that EV owners probably don't charge every day at home if they don't need to, but I think a lot of people would have rather.ge anxiety and so people would just charge it nightly because if you run out of juice, it's not as easy as gassing up. That's another perk of a PHEV, no range anxiety because you've got the gas to fall back on, and you'd be able to charge up for your daily use.

It's mind boggling to me that Ford hasn't launched a PHEV f150 powerboost and Toyota hasn't done a PHEV tundra hybrid. Both can do electric only for a decent big already, just don't have the port.

 

[BlkGS]

On an XLT you can get there, especially for remaining 2023 Models.

Wild to think you can get an XLT both for $500 a month lease AND as a $70k truck, lol.

 

[HangOutdoors]

Wild to think you can get an XLT both for $500 a month lease AND as a $70k truck, lol.

Not quite following you? The XLT's loaded up where in the low to mid 50's per the stickers minus dealer incentives I posted on a previous page. If anyone is paying 70k for them, then they are getting taken to the cleaners.