What attributes contribute the most to comfort/stability/seaworthiness?

[Aces_Over_Kings]

Hi folks,

For any of you that have upgraded over the years to bigger boats , I'd love to hear how one compared to the other, and how extreme the differences were (or not) in stability/seaworthiness as you moved up sizes.

I'm only at 15' now, no windshield, and so little freeboard that I can hang my arm over the gunwale and drag my hand in the water. So the next two sizes up are about 19' and 21' for both the Yamahas and Scarabs. My big question is how much additional comfort/stability/seaworthiness/dryness/etc. do you gain going from 19 to 21?

How much better in chop, channel wakes, etc. would one handle vs. the other? I know some of this is vessel-specific, so what attributes help the most? Deadrise? Length? Weight? Amount of freeboard?

Background:
I live in Massachusetts, take it out on Boston Harbor, Plymouth Harbor, and a couple other spots, but man does it feel small out there for obvious reasons. So it's time to upgrade. I want enough boat to be comfortable and safe, but don't want to get more than I need if there isn't a commensurate payoff in comfort and seaworthiness for normal recreational conditions. I frequently launch/recover alone, so finding a happy medium is key.

Thanks in advance!

-- Josh

 

[Bruce]

I upgraded from a Yamaha LX210 to a SX230 last year. Having a windshield to keep the salt spray out of your eyes made a huge difference. I took both out in the Gulf several times. With the LX210 anything over 1 foot seas was too much. With the SX230 3' seas and 30 mph cross wind creating chop is uncomfortable but doable.

This is my SX230 and @Tyler's LX210 sharing a dock. The SX230 is 2 feet longer, 6" wider and has a lot more freeboard. Regardless of the size difference both of our boats were in paradise!

 

[itsdgm]

We jumped from a 18' SeaDoo Sportster to a 21' Yamaha Ar210.

The SeaDoo was awesome when it came to towing it down the road & launching/retrieving. The boat was so light that we could easily launch the boat in water just over knee deep. We could simply walk it on and off the trailer.

The Yamaha with trailer and equipment weighs close to 5000 lbs. so towing it IMHO requires at least an 8 cylinder vehicle for long hauls (I have towed short distances with my 6 cylinder Tacoma Prerunner double cab for short hauls). Launching and retrieving are completely different. For sure a two person job requiring deeper water and a dedicated paved launch ramp.

As far as storage is concerned. The lighter SeaDoo had a single axle trailer that I could easily push around tight turns by hand. But the double axle trailer and increased weight of the yamaha requires me to use a power dolly to get it into my tight storage space.

As far as using them on the water. The SeaDoo sat closer to the water so we took more waves/wakes over the bow. It didn't have a full windshield which meant the kids would always get wind burn in the hot desert lakes that we frequent. It was so much lighter, so we would take a beating in anything over light chop.

The Yamaha's deeper V-hull, heavier weight & full windshield really helped us out on the choppy water that we often encounter. The boat would just cut through a lot more water and the windshield provided greater protection from the wind and spray.

Another reason for the switch was that I wanted to go from 2-stroke to 4-stroke engines. I initially had my eye on the SeaDoo X20 boat but I was afraid that I wouldn't be able to use it on some of our local lakes that seemed to be banning the 2 strokers.

Another benefit to the 21'er was the additional storage space. Our smaller boat had decent storage space for its size, but the 21'er is almost ridiculous as far as what we store in it. What used to be piled up on the floor of the smaller boat is now permanently stored under the seats and out of sight.

My recommendation to you would be to try and find guys in your area that have boats that you would consider buying. Check them out and maybe even spend some time out on the water and see/feel how they handle. There's no amount of research that will convince you better than hands on experience.

Good luck with your decision and feel free to ask any more questions that you have.

 

[Speedling]

I had an exciter and moved to the 212ss.
Nothing, and I mean NOTHING will beat a small boat like that going 65 mph!!!!
But you could only do it for about 3 seconds and then shut it down from some sort of wave. Going out on Lake Michigan was a bit of a joke. It's not like the ocean with swells, it's ALL chop. 1 foot chop was really too much for it. Now with the 212ss, it's a much smoother ride. We were just out with up to 2' chop and while it got too uncomfortable for the kids to sleep (end of the day is wonderful) it was really not bad at all. We upgraded for the kids more than anything. If I had an lx210, I personally would have kept it longer just for the speed/cost. Bahamas I would be more comfortable with the bigger boat though.

 

[MNdrifter]

We test drove the SX190 and the SX210 last fall. We took the 190 first. It was comfortable and handled very well.
As soon as my wife sat down in the 210 she said "Oh, This is so much better." We were sold on the 210 before we even started the engine. (I didn't let her get near the 240). I think the biggest difference is the height of the transom from the seat. Really feels secure.
Plus I like the security of having 2 engines. This is especially comforting when out on bigger bodies of water.

 

[Aces_Over_Kings]

@Bruce : Good grief that place looks amazing. Where is that?? That photo is a good illustration of how much more freeboard the 230 has, before you even get to the windshield. Palm trees, warm weather, and walking out of your condo right to your dock? Yes, please.

@itsdgm : Thanks for the detailed rundown, I appreciate it. If deciding between the Scarab 195 and 215, I think I'd pair it with a nice new f-150 or grand cherokee v8/diesel, so I'm upgrading tow vehicles either way. I don't manhandle my current trailer much but I could if I wanted to, so that's an interesting point about the power dolly. Also glad to know I'm not the only one who's taken waves over the bow. First time it happened I had to stop and mentally assess just how bad/risky it was, or if I was just being hyper-conservative for worrying about it. Both the 195 and 215 have windshields, so hopefully even the 195 would provide a radical improvement there. There aren't too many folks around here with boats like ours -- all the salty New England sailors around here have their center console fishing boats or stern drives. I get an absurd amount of attention at the ramps and on the water.

@Speedling : The thought of that added stability in the 21' class is appealing. I never go out unless the forecast is "waves 1ft or less" and gorgeous sun, and I often still feel like I'm navigating the perfect storm of wakes and chop. Trying to go faster than 15mph in my Speedster leaving Boston Harbor often puts me in the same flight path/altitude as the planes departing Logan.

@MNdrifter : I suspect I'd feel the same testing the two I'm considering, and I'm seriously thinking about depriving myself of that "oh this is so much better" moment. I love the thought of two engines and the security/redundancy also -- total contingency/safety planner. But I pay for unlimited towing coverage, and if the 19' would meet my needs, there's a certain security in putting the extra $20K back in my pocket that I'd save between the 195 and 215! (The tipping point might be that this is New England, so it's not a year-round investment.)

I really appreciate everyone's input.

 

[Gym]

I also boat in MA. on Cape Cod @Aces_Over_Kings. If you get down to the East Falmouth area you're welcome to hook up with us for a ride along. We boat primarily in Nantucket Sound which can be pretty choppy at times. I've had our SX230 out in 5foot rollers but typically we're in 1-3 foot chop. As you know wind also plays a significant role on the open water. I would consider going two sizes bigger than your current boat whereas you're operating in the open water. That will not only give you much greater comfort and control but greater safety with two engines. Drop me a message if I can be of any help.

 

[Bruce]

@Bruce : Good grief that place looks amazing. Where is that?? That photo is a good illustration of how much more freeboard the 230 has, before you even get to the windshield. Palm trees, warm weather, and walking out of your condo right to your dock? Yes, please.

That was taken at http://www.biminisands.com. We are going back next year and everyone is invited!

There are lots of pictures from this years trip online at https://jetboaters.net/media/albums/bimini-2014.120/ .

This is one of my favorite pictures from the trip

And this one

Yes, I am recruiting for Bimini 2015

 

[Aces_Over_Kings]

Thanks @Gym. I appreciate the feedback and the invite! I'm not really ever in "open water" because the current boat is so small -- can barely make it out of the harbor unless I'm being a little adventurous and don't mind getting wet. 21', twin engines, the extra freeboard, and plenty of storage... vs. smaller, maneuverable, easier to launch solo, easier storage. Good decisions to have, I guess!

 

[Aces_Over_Kings]

That was taken at http://www.biminisands.com. We are going back next year and everyone is invited!

Wow. The Bimini 2014 link didn't work for me, but that looks amazingly fun. Out of curiosity, what's the smallest boat in the raft photo, or that made the trip with you guys?

 

[Bruce]

Wow. The Bimini 2014 link didn't work for me, but that looks amazingly fun. Out of curiosity, what's the smallest boat in the raft photo, or that made the trip with you guys?

Not sure why it did not work. Lets see if this does https://jetboaters.net/media/albums/bimini-2014.120/

The smallest boat in the group was a 19 foot Yamaha 192. It is on the right end of the group.

 

[Aces_Over_Kings]

Not sure why it did not work. Lets see if this does https://jetboaters.net/media/albums/bimini-2014.120/

The smallest boat in the group was a 19 foot Yamaha 192. It is on the right end of the group.

That new link works and those photos are amazing. Good to hear that a 19 footer could hang with you guys.