Yamaha timing chain and engine failure…cylinder head damage

[Prwilkins]

Our 2013 AR190 experienced a catastrophic timing chain failure which has damaged the cylinder head, broken a piston which fell into crank case, and we expect more damage beyond that once the dealer has finished disassembly. Dealer contacted Yamaha and they won’t cover repairs. We have 78 hours on the engine and this boat was serviced annually!! I saw a post by zwillz referencing case [HASH=536]#’s[/HASH], names and a written letter from Yamaha. Would love getting that info as I want to pursue further with Yamaha.
Spending $35,000+ for a boat only to have this kind of a catastrophic failure after 78 hours when the manufacturer was clearly aware of the issue is criminal. They should have issued a recall or at least notified owners at the very least!!!
We are absolutely sick about this!!!!

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

That was one of the years that had the timing chain issue do some research and contact a consumer lawyer, I had one fail also years back but they covered it.

 

[Ronnie]

Sounds like your warranty is expired. Good luck getting Yamaha to pay for this.

One of the timing chains broke on my 2010 242 ls with about 500 hours on it. I took it to a shop that I trust for a repair estimate. In addition to the new chain, it needed several intake and exhaust valves plus chain guides and gaskets. Total cost would have been about $2,500 including labor. It sounds like you have a lot more parts to replace, including the additional labor you’re looking at a hefty bill to rebuild an engine with the same chain.

Yamaha offfers a timing chain upgrade kit for about $2,500 excluding the labor to install it.

I would look into swapping the engine out of a used Waverunner (FX or GP1800 models), the newer models have engines with upgraded timing chains.

Again, I wish you luck in getting this resolved, hopefully quickly and in the least expensive way possible.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Yes there were a few models " this one included that had bad chains and I recall talk about a recall that was supposedly avoided by Yamaha agreeing to fix any of the chains that failed warranty or not so do a search on here and see what you can find regarding this issue.

 

[biffdotorg]

the manufacturer was clearly aware of the issue is criminal. They should have issued a recall or at least notified owners at the very least!!!
We are absolutely sick about this!!!!

As you and Ronnie pointed out, the 2010-2014 1.8ltr engines could experience this failure, but the amount of engines built in that amount of time compared to the ones that have failed didn't even add up to enough to justify a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) from Yamaha, let alone a recall.

It wasn't until the 2015 year that these failures did reach that level that they did issue a TSB, and did take care of "original owners" and those with YES contracts. But the issue was resolved late 2015 and 2016 with upgraded components. The 1.8's produced since have seen very few failures, but they have happened.

So as much as I empathize with your situation, Yamaha has done the right thing in the years where they recognized an issue in mass. The only reason we even hear about the few that failed in the 2010-2014 model years is because when it does happen, it's catastrophic and can cost plenty to fix and folks hit every piece of social media they can to talk about it. Just as you have done in your very first post here.

But that does not make it common, or make Yamaha require a recall. As the numbers just did not add up to warrant it until 2015, which did not cover any of the units produced from 2010-2014. (i'm in that range as well, but feel confident in my engines) I would be as pissed as you if it failed, but understand I don't have a leg to stand on with Yamaha. @#@# happens. The sky is not falling for the thousands and thousands of 1.8's produced for boats and waverunners in those model years.

 

[Wr3ckdiver]

Just went thru same issue, fffing Yamaha leaves customers holding the bill. Mine is a 2014 that had just 203 hrs when chain snapped and I spent over 8 grand total. I bought a used engine and drove across the country to get it. This is truly wrong on every sense of consumer protection. Anyway I am finally up and running with a 2019 engine in my 2014 boat. I will never buy another Yamaha boat because of this.

 

[biffdotorg]

Just went thru same issue, fffing Yamaha leaves customers holding the bill. Mine is a 2014 that had just 203 hrs when chain snapped and I spent over 8 grand total. I bought a used engine and drove across the country to get it. This is truly wrong on every sense of consumer protection. Anyway I am finally up and running with a 2019 engine in my 2014 boat. I will never buy another Yamaha boat because of this.

How long was your YES contract when you bought the boat new? 3 or 5 years?

 

[Wr3ckdiver]

I only had a few months on it I was second owner so I know they would get out of it for that reason. I bought boat in 2017 from original owner.

 

[biffdotorg]

I only had a few months on it I was second owner so I know they would get out of it for that reason. I bought boat in 2017 from original owner.

Ya, it sucks for sure, but the mfg has helped any original owners that purchased YES Contracts.

As mentioned many times, this is a crazy expensive catastrophic failure if you experience it. So Yamaha did help those original owners with YES contracts. And I believe even those original owners without.

That being said, since it was a catastrophic failure, the few that happened got lots of attention in the forums online as owners wanted blood, and rightfully so. To the point that many thought there were many more failures than there actually were. The numbers were never as many as one would believe.

But as stated before, there were just enough failures to warrant a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) but not a recall. Let alone take care of 2nd or 3rd owners on a 10 year old boat.

As mentioned, it sucks, but a company cannot warrant a product forever and for sure not to 2nd and 3rd owner boats.

Sad to see you go if you choose to not own a Yamaha. But for every timing chain failure we hear about, there are thousands of owners that have never and will never experience it. This includes the Waverunner owners with that engine, and the Yamaha viper owners with the sled based derivative of that engine. I have one in my fleet and will put thousands of miles on it.

 

[Wr3ckdiver]

Yah but other companies issue recalls no matter who owns thier product, I just bought a used 2022 Tundra truck and Toyota is replacing the engine free of charge due to defect. Yamaha didn't even take the time to notify owners there was a problem, my boat sits in the garage way more than it's used and I would not expect a timing chain to snap at 203 hrs, that is defective engineering at its finest. Leaving customers to just deal with it really is the wrong thing to do. And have you seen thier quality lately? Really going downhill on new boats and charging people outrageous prices for what are essentially jet ski powered boats.

 

[biffdotorg]

Yah but other companies issue recalls no matter who owns thier product, I just bought a used 2022 Tundra truck and Toyota is replacing the engine free of charge due to defect. Yamaha didn't even take the time to notify owners there was a problem, my boat sits in the garage way more than it's used and I would not expect a timing chain to snap at 203 hrs, that is defective engineering at its finest. Leaving customers to just deal with it really is the wrong thing to do. And have you seen thier quality lately? Really going downhill on new boats and charging people outrageous prices for what are essentially jet ski powered boats.

You are 100% correct and so does Yamaha, Arctic cat, Chevrolet etc etc. The honor recalls to whoever the owner is. First, second, third etc, as they should.

The part you are failing to recognize is Toyota issued a recall as they recognize a large enough percentage of the trucks produced of that mode/year whatever were having this issue. So they issue a TSB and take care of initial owners if they experience the issue. If it is an issue that hits a high enough percentage, they will issue a recall, which will take care of anyone, no matter if they experienced the issue or not. And thirdly, if it may cause life threatening conditions, they will issue a stop drive/stop sale recall and demand it be brought it or they will object to any legal action against them.

In your case, there was just enough failures for Yamaha to issue a TSB and it was so few, that it was for those that experienced the issue, not preventative, as it was so rare of an occurrence. Yamaha even took it a step further and said, these are happening so infrequently, as many owners don't put that many hours on like you, that they said they would take care of owners with a YES contract as it would allow them to take care of owners 3-5 years out if they happen to have it happen. (that was years ago) YES contracts can be transferred, thus the reason I asked. The fact that you didn't hardly use the boat is not anyone else's fault but yourself. If I put a new vette on ice from the showroom, the warranty still runs out at 3yr/36,000 miles. No exceptions. But if Chevy issues a recall, they will honor it. Just like Yamaha.

But what you are saying is that you feel that Yamaha should have recalled your 10 year old boat for something that never happened in the first 200 hours because their boat quality went down hill years after your boat was produced? I'm sorry, that's a little out of context, but you get the idea of how silly that sounded as you stated it.

The boats form 2010 to 2015 were rock solid, with thousands of satisfied customers still putting hundreds of hours on them. If my timing chains failed tomorrow, I would be pissy about it too. But I would have to suck it up, as I didn't buy it from Yamaha, I never bought an extended warranty, and Yamaha has no justification to help me as if the timing chain fails, the statistics say its a rare occurance.

Other members on here such as Ronnie had theirs die on a 2010 242. Yup, it sucked and it cost him dearly. But that was not the norm. What you may have a trouble grasping is at what percentage of failures should Yamaha issue a recall. Thats entirely up to them, and not up to a handful of failed timing chains out of thousands of boats and waverunners produced.

PS: Yamaha issued a TSB for the 2015 Model Year Yamaha Viper as well as owners were boosting the 1049 sled engine. They had changed the internals just enough that they failed with a big turbo. I repeat, a TSB, as most owners would never encounter the issue, unless they slapped a turbo on it. But Yamaha still took care of the original owners, or owners with YES contracts, as it was the right thing to do. But chicken little never caused the rest of us owners to go running around telling everyone the sky was falling. I had no reason to boost my viper, but I knew they would take care of me in case I did.

Sorry to say, but Yamaha did a great job taking care of those that had an issue early on. You are talking like they are not backing up their products due to a known issue and not honoring a recall that was never issued. What was Yamaha's official word on your boat? Or did you never report it. Because if you didn't, that's part of the problem. It's numbers of issues that warrant a recall. If you never reported it, it's like it was never an issue, and never became a statistic.

Sorry.

 

[Wr3ckdiver]

I think you missed my point, I just think they should have issued a recall to fix the timing chains , parts and labor at the dealerships when they identified the problem so that no others snapped. I heard that newer motors have upgraded chains so they knew there was a defect but never told anyone about it. A yamaha dealer identified my broken chain ( have you seen them? Look like a bicycle chain) and told me that Yamaha won't fix it or if I allowed them to tear down engine further at my own expense then they would report it, but chances are they wouldn't help with cost to fix it. A new engine for these boats is ridiculously priced for a 1.8 litre engine and only one company SBT does rebuilds which I hear are shit replacements. Anyway a used engine was my best option. I just expected better quality from a Japanese manufacturer.

 

[biffdotorg]

I think you missed my point, I just think they should have issued a recall to fix the timing chains , parts and labor at the dealerships when they identified the problem so that no others snapped. I heard that newer motors have upgraded chains so they knew there was a defect but never told anyone about it. A yamaha dealer identified my broken chain ( have you seen them? Look like a bicycle chain) and told me that Yamaha won't fix it or if I allowed them to tear down engine further at my own expense then they would report it, but chances are they wouldn't help with cost to fix it. A new engine for these boats is ridiculously priced for a 1.8 litre engine and only one company SBT does rebuilds which I hear are shit replacements. Anyway a used engine was my best option. I just expected better quality from a Japanese manufacturer.

I got your point. And you don’t understand that there is no need for a recall when so few failed you just got unlucky

 

[Ronnie]

I think Yamaha should have issued a recall on the 2010 oil coolers but I felt that way because soon after I bought my 2010 in 2012 both my oil coolers started leaking. I knew it was a possibility going in so I had the previous owners extended warranty transferred to me for about $40 I’m glad I did because parts and labor to replace those coolers came out to $2,500 back in 2012 or 2013.

So the broken timing chain was my boats second major issue and it was out of the blue. One minute we were at no wake speed leaving a marina and the next minute the engine died. I ended up doing a lot of research on deciding wether to fix or replace the engine. The repair quote was $2,500, most of it for labor. I got lucky and bought a totaled boat from a member here for very little money but I combined the engine replacement with new upholstery and impact graphics, etc. so my total cost was well over $10,000.

If you read this far I’m probably coming off as a whiner but the last few times I’ve been out on the boat I introduced a several people to tubing and made some great memories with my friends and family. It’s those moments that remind me why I still love my boat, even after spending thousands on repair costs. I also think Yamaha boats deliver the best bang for the buck. With the only big competitors being seadoo (switch) and scarab all powered by brp motors. A top of the line switch is over $60k comes with one 230 hp motor and a low top speed. The scarabs I saw at a boat show last March were over $150k each. I know that the lower models cost less but recall a member here buying a 16’ for over $40k. At least you can still get into a 19’ Yamaha for about $40k and it comes with at least a 320 hp motor. I also understand that the timing chain issue was not so wide spread that it justified a recall. It just hurt that much more when it became my problem.

Finally this site makes it easy to love my boat. Free tech support often from people who experienced the same issues. The only way this could be better is if site paid me to post here.

 

[Ronnie]

I wonder how the original poster addressed his situation.

@Wr3ckdiver on the bright side your 2019 replacement engine has a thicker timing chain so at least you don’t have to worry about it breaking like the one in the engine you replaced.

$8k for a used engine installed is not bad. I estimate that a new engine if I could get one from and installed by Yamaha would cost between $18k and $20k. By the way, I had the timing chain in my remaining 2010 engine replaced before I pulled it out of the hull. I’ve been trying to sell the complete engine which is drop in ready along with its ecu, wiring harness and exhaust manifold for $2,500 for over a year now. I’m am it willing to box and ship it so the buyer has to pick it up in CA, I think this is the main reason I still have it even though I’m willing to unbundle it from the other parts. It looks cool in my garage and makes a good conversation starter though.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

Yah but other companies issue recalls no matter who owns thier product, I just bought a used 2022 Tundra truck and Toyota is replacing the engine free of charge due to defect. Yamaha didn't even take the time to notify owners there was a problem, my boat sits in the garage way more than it's used and I would not expect a timing chain to snap at 203 hrs, that is defective engineering at its finest. Leaving customers to just deal with it really is the wrong thing to do. And have you seen thier quality lately? Really going downhill on new boats and charging people outrageous prices for what are essentially jet ski powered boats.

Sorry to hear about your Yamaha issues, but I don’t believe the situation is the same as Toyota’s. The Tundras were recalled due to a known quality issue - debris left in the engine after machining. They also reported performing warranty service on about 9% of these engines at the time of the recall.

Best of luck and I sincerely hope you get your boat back on the water.

Jim