Those crazy b*stards at Ram actually did it

[Sherwood]

I been truck shopping for couple years. My ram is 9 years old and this is the longest I have held on to a vehicle in my life.
I live 17 miles from the ramp I use 99% of the time so I have thought alot about getting a ev truck.
I think I'm now more excited see what happens with hydrogen.
I seen a few clips about a company that has a method for making hydrogen from solar panels , once they get into mass production claim it will cost around what solar panels do now, and make 60 gallons of hydrogen a day per panel.
Hydrogen never goes bad, is cheaper to store, and less temperamental than ev batteries, burns clean, lighter than gasoline, more energy density than gasoline.
Fill up times equivalent to gasoline.
Seems like all upside.

 

[Beachbummer]

I went electric in 2013 because it was cheaper. I got a nice $20K (USED Leaf) 4 seater car than ran almost for free compared to the cost of fuel at the time, and maintenance on the car was zero at the time. That car by the way is still running for its new owner with still zero maintenance costs (beyond tires)

Hydrogen, not so much, at least not yet, and for for the foreseeable future. Hydrogen is very Expensive still.

ANALYSIS | It is now almost 14 times more expensive to drive a Toyota hydrogen car in California than a comparable Tesla EV

The state’s largest H2 fuel supplier has hiked its pump price to $36 per kg across all 37 of its filling stations

www.hydrogeninsight.com

One of the advantages for electric is that while in the city you spend 0 minutes at the gas station. You don't have to drive there, wait, and return home. that time is just saved. Another relative downside to hydrogen.

 

[BlkGS]

The problem with hydrogen is that turning it into a fuel is energy intensive. Nobody wants a hydrogen gas tank (it goes boom), but hydrogen powders have the speed and safety that gasoline offers. Unfortunately, that process is energy intensive, so while you can create a lot of hydrogen gas via low powered solar, packaging it for use isn't as inexpensive.

Hydrogen offers a best of both worlds, plentiful range like an ICE vehicle, but the efficiency of electric motors, without the need for giant wasteful batteries. That said, it's not going to be truly viable.until we have wide scale nuclear power, likely nuclear fusion to boot.

 

[BlkGS]

One of the advantages for electric is that while in the city you spend 0 minutes at the gas station. You don't have to drive there, wait, and return home. that time is just saved. Another relative downside to hydrogen.

I don't find that a real downside. By the same token, I could say that having to plug in an EV daily or so is a real downside to just filling up once every week or two.

For us, we fill up at the grocery store. It's no big deal, we are already there. If we were gonna get really efficient, I could send the wife in to start shopping and I pick up gas and then meet her inside, but it's not a huge deal. I see a lot of people complain about gas stations, and it simply isn't a downside for us.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

I don’t foresee much happening with hydrogen power and everyday drivers. You can fill up and home and there really is much infrastructure to fill your vehicle on the road. Different for large cities with fleets of vehicles, when hydrogen may be a viable option.

Getting back to Ram, if you buy a truck from them, at least they won’t sue you for $50,000 if you resell within a year like Tesla is threatening!

Tesla will sue you for $50,000 if you try to resell your Cybertruck in the first year

Tesla may agree to buy the truck back at the original price minus "$0.25/mile driven" and any damages and repairs.

www.businessinsider.com

Jim

 

[BlkGS]

I don’t foresee much happening with hydrogen power and everyday drivers. You can fill up and home and there really is much infrastructure to fill your vehicle on the road. Different for large cities with fleets of vehicles, when hydrogen may be a viable option.

Getting back to Ram, if you buy a truck from them, at least they won’t sue you for $50,000 if you resell within a year like Tesla is threatening!

Tesla will sue you for $50,000 if you try to resell your Cybertruck in the first year

Tesla may agree to buy the truck back at the original price minus "$0.25/mile driven" and any damages and repairs.

www.businessinsider.com

Jim

I'm not really opposed to this. Way too many vehicles nowadays are "bought" with the intent to resell. Car dealers will buy these cars in place of consumers to turn around and resell for a profit, and a lot of people do it too. You can see it in how quickly the reservations for EV trucks got filled, once it was no longer viable to buy one and flip it for a profit, stock of EV trucks skyrocketed and waiting times crashed.

If you look at anything cool from Ford, Porsche, etc, they're all dragged down by people buying them to turn around, mark them up by 20+ grand and turn a profit. Hell in some cases that's happening 2 and 3 times, ju.ping from a speculator to a car lot to another car lot until eventually maybe someone buys it?

I think the whole auto industry would be wise to adopt a similar policy, as well as coming up with some.sort.of way to combat dealer ADMs, which are really just racketeering.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

The day a manufacturer tells me I can’t resell a vehicle is the day I stop buying from them. Why would I buy a vehicle, and if I decide I don’t like it, and be stuck with it?

I also don’t have an issue with someone buying a car to resell. How is this any different from any other consumer good or even property? I do have a problem with dealers doing crazy markups on new vehicles. If dealers are going to do this, the manufacturer should have a option to sell directly to the consumer.

Jim

 

[adrianp89]

The day a manufacturer tells me I can’t resell a vehicle is the day I stop buying from them. Why would I buy a vehicle, and if I decide I don’t like it, and be stuck with it?

I also don’t have an issue with someone buying a car to resell. How is this any different from any other consumer good or even property? I do have a problem with dealers doing crazy markups on new vehicles. If dealers are going to do this, the manufacturer should have a option to sell directly to the consumer.

Jim

This is a major issue. Try buying a 911 or a Z06, because of people flipping them they now cost 100k over sticker.

 

[BlkGS]

This is a major issue. Try buying a 911 or a Z06, because of people flipping them they now cost 100k over sticker.

Yup. It's especially bad on Porsche 911s. Porsche may as well not even give out an MSRP on new GT cars, it means nothing due to all the big money speculators.

I think Tesla is looking at it a fair way. Basically, you need to get rid of it, not a problem, you sell it to them and they sell it as a used car. You're gonna get a fair price for it, and they're gonna protect their image and name from gouging.

That's the real issue too. Porsche is synonymous now with "all the good cars and allocations.get taken by speculators". Ford's specialty products as well. Honda's type R is up there too. That reputation drives buyers away, they say "to hell with a 911, if I'm gonna get beat up to get.ome.ill just buy a Huracan". That may have been less of an issue when people didn't have to pay student loans, couldn't get evicted, we're getting government payouts, interest rates were practically non existent, etc... but nowdays if I don't even bother looking at a 2025 explorer ST because I expect to get burned by a dealer and a line of flippers, that hurts Ford because those flippers are a lot less likely to take that gamble when they're paying 7-9% on the loan, and the dealers might not be putting markups on them but I just assume they will because they have for years at this point, that's a big problem for Ford.

Issues that get swept.under the rug during an economic boom turn into catastrophes during economic slowdowns.

 

[zpaul]

I don’t foresee much happening with hydrogen power and everyday drivers. You can fill up and home and there really is much infrastructure to fill your vehicle on the road. Different for large cities with fleets of vehicles, when hydrogen may be a viable option.

Getting back to Ram, if you buy a truck from them, at least they won’t sue you for $50,000 if you resell within a year like Tesla is threatening!

Tesla will sue you for $50,000 if you try to resell your Cybertruck in the first year

Tesla may agree to buy the truck back at the original price minus "$0.25/mile driven" and any damages and repairs.

www.businessinsider.com

Jim

Tesla is not the only one, some other manufacturers do that too. Especially exotic cars.
Tesla just fortunate to have more control over who registers it with them.
During Covid was a common site to get Tesla for $55k and flip it to the dealer for $70k. People drove straight from Tesla showroom.
I know people who hold 3 Cybertruck reservations. Do you really believe they want all 3?
Some did it because it is not certain which model will come first dual motor, triple motor. Some did it because Tesla offered $49k price for it for preorders, so they were definitely planning to flip it.

Same as flipping tickets at the gate before the game for profit. Makes it expensive for everyone and discourages people from buying.

 

[fatboyroy]

This is a major issue. Try buying a 911 or a Z06, because of people flipping them they now cost 100k over sticker.

Yes it is a major issue. Elon's goal at Tesla is if you're buying for profit, you can't have it. He is still enforcing direct to consumer sales. Wish all manufacturers does this.

 

[Beachbummer]

I don't find that a real downside. By the same token, I could say that having to plug in an EV daily or so is a real downside to just filling up once every week or two.

For us, we fill up at the grocery store. It's no big deal, we are already there. If we were gonna get really efficient, I could send the wife in to start shopping and I pick up gas and then meet her inside, but it's not a huge deal. I see a lot of people complain about gas stations, and it simply isn't a downside for us.

That's totally OK, but having had one for years I assure you there is a preference by many ev buyers to not go to the gas station if they can help it .

Just like a "fast charge" for a gas car takes 4 minutes at the gas station vs 30+ for an electric car. Some electric drivers may tell you they prefer to be stopped longer to rest at long trips. It might be an advantage to them, but others may not see it as such.

 

[BlkGS]

That's totally OK, but having had one for years I assure you there is a preference by many ev buyers to not go to the gas station if they can help it .

Just like a "fast charge" for a gas car takes 4 minutes at the gas station vs 30+ for an electric car. Some electric drivers may tell you they prefer to be stopped longer to rest at long trips. It might be an advantage to them, but others may not see it as such.

Yeah I think it all boils down to perspective and confirmation bias. The ability to charge overnight for most use is a convenience in some ways, but a hassle in others. If there were big ass wireless charging mats that you could just park on and it did the magic on its own, that'd be WAYYYY better.

That said, getting fully gassed up in 5 minutes is also super convenient. But some parts of life, it isn't. When you've got infants that need diapers every 3 hours, if you gotta stop to charge every 2.5 hours for a half.houe, it's not as big of a deal, gives you time to charge while you do diapers. But once they get a little older and dont need diapers as frequently, that advantage goes away. It's not a stretch that you could probably drag it out to 15-20 minutes and get a charge in, but the problem is that most of the big nice truck stop style gas stations off the interstates don't have a whole boatload of chargers to make that work.

That's why the Ramcharger is so damn brilliant. It does both, you can gas up quickly, or you can charge it overnight.

 

[Beachbummer]

Yep. Other than complexity and price is truly the best of both worlds. I chose the volt last time for the same reason. Battery when you can, and gas for the rest of the time.

 

[2kwik4u]

...... But once they get a little older and dont need diapers as frequently, that advantage goes away. .......

As the parent of a 12 and 5 year old kid, as well as a semi frequent transporter of grandmothers over 60 years old........That "window" of opportunity to make REALLY long legs on a road trip is strikingly low.

Made a trip to Florida every year for the last 3 years (twice with the boat). Those had 2 adults, 2 kids, and 1 grandparent. THEN made a trip to SC this fall with (3) adult men (38, 34, and 43)........I've yet to have any leg of any trip go more than 3hrs.

Maybe we have abnormally tiny bladders?

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

As the parent of a 12 and 5 year old kid, as well as a semi frequent transporter of grandmothers over 60 years old........That "window" of opportunity to make REALLY long legs on a road trip is strikingly low.

Made a trip to Florida every year for the last 3 years (twice with the boat). Those had 2 adults, 2 kids, and 1 grandparent. THEN made a trip to SC this fall with (3) adult men (38, 34, and 43)........I've yet to have any leg of any trip go more than 3hrs.

Maybe we have abnormally tiny bladders?

We’ve always stop every couple of hours. Even if you don’t need gas or have to pee, it’s still nice to stretch your legs. Now that we have retired, there is even less hurry to get anywhere!

Jim

 

[zpaul]

We drive to Florida from Maryland couple times a year.
950-1000 miles and It takes 14-16 hours on regular gas car.
And I prefer to do it in one day. We change drivers every 2-3 hours and combine it either with gas, bathroom break, or food stop.

Driving Tesla would be such an awesome experience with base Autopilot but stopping every 150-180 miles and charging for 30-40 min would add at least 2 hours to the trip.

I can't even imagine towing boat with electric truck that distance.

Possible solution - move to Florida or move to NC, SC or GA. That will save at least 4-6 hours and driving electric car still gets me there in one day.

 

[2kwik4u]

We drive to Florida from Maryland couple times a year.
950-1000 miles and It takes 14-16 hours on regular gas car.
And I prefer to do it in one day. We change drivers every 2-3 hours and combine it either with gas, bathroom break, or food stop.

Driving Tesla would be such an awesome experience with base Autopilot but stopping every 150-180 miles and charging for 30-40 min would add at least 2 hours to the trip.

I can't even imagine towing boat with electric truck that distance.

Possible solution - move to Florida or move to NC, SC or GA. That will save at least 4-6 hours and driving electric car still gets me there in one day.

Buddy that I went to SC with drove his Model 3 Performance down 2 weeks before our trip. We did it in about 11hrs door to door. Adding charging stops, he made it in 12-1/2hrs door to door. That's on a ~650mi drive. We made the same number of stops (3) each way between the ICE and the EV.

 

[zpaul]

Buddy that I went to SC with drove his Model 3 Performance down 2 weeks before our trip. We did it in about 11hrs door to door. Adding charging stops, he made it in 12-1/2hrs door to door. That's on a ~650mi drive. We made the same number of stops (3) each way between the ICE and the EV.

Yeah EVs add time to the trip and superchargers cost almost same as gas. But if you drive in the winter time with 30 degree weather Tesla will waist energy heating up the battery pack which lowers your milage and it will take forever to charge it since the battery is cold and supercharger is not charging it fast.
The only nice thing is how relaxing to drive Tesla vs Highlander. Highlander doesn't hold to the road and constantly beeps at you for getting too close to the white line.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

We drive to Florida from Maryland couple times a year.
950-1000 miles and It takes 14-16 hours on regular gas car.
And I prefer to do it in one day. We change drivers every 2-3 hours and combine it either with gas, bathroom break, or food stop.

Driving Tesla would be such an awesome experience with base Autopilot but stopping every 150-180 miles and charging for 30-40 min would add at least 2 hours to the trip.

I can't even imagine towing boat with electric truck that distance.

Possible solution - move to Florida or move to NC, SC or GA. That will save at least 4-6 hours and driving electric car still gets me there in one day.

LOL, if my wife and I did that in a day, only one of us (not sure who) would make it to the destination!

We usually split it into two days, covering more the first day so that we arrive in the early afternoon of day 2. Or better yet, we fly!

Jim