Liability question

[Babin Farms]

Later this summer we are going on a family vacation with close friends of ours to Torch Lake. We’ve went with them a few times before and had great vacations. They have 2 kids but one is a teenager where my 2 & their other are 10 & under. The teenager wants to bring a friend. On a normal weekend out on the boat, no problem, wouldn’t think twice but this will be a week long vacation. I don’t know this friend but am open to taking them. Has anyone else had this come up??? Should I make the parents of this friend sign a liability waver??? If so should I get one from a lawyer or just print one out on my own or just not even worry about it? Any information would be helpful.

 

[marcham]

Waivers don't usually hold up in court.

1) can he swim for 20 minutes in deep water without a lifejacket?

2) talk to the parents, let them know what you are planning and see if they are ok with that.

 

[sunbyrned]

I would look at what your insurance offers. Not sure why you would have one sign a waiver and not the others though. I would however suggest having the teenager's parents give you or your friends their insurance card in case you had to go to the hospital.

 

[BigAbe75]

I would look at what your insurance offers. Not sure why you would have one sign a waiver and not the others though. I would however suggest having the teenager's parents give you or your friends their insurance card in case you had to go to the hospital.

And something from the parents authorizing medical treatment in emergency.

We were out last year and had a friend of a friend kind of situation. Then that kid went down and got bonked in the head with a wakeboard. We didnt know the parents and were pretty nervous about the issue. We heard later that the mom asked the kid what he thought would happen his first time trying... so it turned out to be nothing. But, if he had needed stitches, would the ER have serviced him without a guardian present??

 

[Elliott]

On top of all of the other terrible things that I am, I am an attorney, but I have never practiced. As noted above, waivers rarely have any utility. Essentially, you cannot have a person waive your negligence (real or alleged).

 

[scokill]

Later this summer we are going on a family vacation with close friends of ours to Torch Lake. We’ve went with them a few times before and had great vacations. They have 2 kids but one is a teenager where my 2 & their other are 10 & under. The teenager wants to bring a friend. On a normal weekend out on the boat, no problem, wouldn’t think twice but this will be a week long vacation. I don’t know this friend but am open to taking them. Has anyone else had this come up??? Should I make the parents of this friend sign a liability waver??? If so should I get one from a lawyer or just print one out on my own or just not even worry about it? Any information would be helpful.

Personally I wouldn't let a friend of a friend on the boat. We typically have limited kids on our boats to family/close friends...most with long history with our family and children, not strangers or acquaintances. I'm not so worried about me and my actions, but their actions for which I would ultimately be responsible....like if they just decide to jump in while moving, or dive headfirst in to the lake, or defy rules/orders, etc. As mentioned, you can't sign away negligence so a liability waiver is near useless. All of my kids are adults now so we are dealing with adult guests all the way around.

 

[Babin Farms]

Sometimes the adults are worse than kids

 

[scokill]

Sometimes the adults are worse than kids

It's true but they can be held responsibility for their own negligence

 

[BigAbe75]

No idea of the accuracy or reliability of this site, but this seems reasonable to me. In my mind, making sure you (or really it would be your friends, as they are responsible for bringing the additional guest) are able to get the kids treated just in case something happened is the important piece, especially if a liability waiver doesn’t do any good as others have suggested.

Minor (Child) Medical Consent Form

A minor (child) medical consent is a legal document providing someone other than the parent or legal guardian temporary rights to seek and provide healthcare and healthcare decisions on behalf of...

eforms.com

 

[BigAbe75]

Another

Paperwork to Give Someone Emergency Permission While on Vacation

If you allow your minor child to travel with another adult, you'll need to provide both consent to travel and a medical consent form, signed and notarized.

traveltips.usatoday.com

 

[Plpbecks]

While not boating related, we have close friends who took another teen with them on their family vacation. Long story short, this guest ended up sneaking out and doing something very stupid that injured a young lady very seriously. That young lady’s parents sued our friends, and they were held liable because they were found to be the responsible adults for the guest.

Tough stuff, it does happen.

That being said, you can’t let this deter enjoying life. We take our daughter’s friends boating regularly, just stay vigilant and if there is any misbehavior their parents can come pick them up at the closest dock!

 

[Babin Farms]

Thanks for all of the insight & information. Greatly appreciated

 

[Mjones]

As a claims manager who handles boat claims the only thing that matters is liability. Are you at fault? If someone gets hurt that is the main question. You can have as many waivers as possible but it will not exonerate fault. PS: if you are pulling a minor and they get hurt you are pretty much at fault. Minors can not waive negligence.

 

[Liveto99]

Hands in the boat when docking, I tell everyone this every time. Everyone tries to save the 3,000lb boat with there hand. Pinch points wreck hands arms and fingers.

 

[tdonoughue]

A couple of thoughts, additionally:
1) Not to derail into a COVID discussion, but is now really the right time to be bringing strangers on a close-quarters boat?
b) Should you proceed nonetheless, I have often found when working with teens that i) you should set expectations and ask for agreement as to them and ii) not make threats on which you cannot follow through. For example, you can say, 'I expect you will keep your hands in the boat. If you don't keep your hands in the boat, I will call your parents to come get you.' But if you are not prepared to actually do that at the first infraction, don't make that threat. You can keep the expectations simple and non-threatening (e.g. 'I expect you to respect and listen to me. If we have a problem with that, I will bring you back. Ok?'), but even stating the obvious can be beneficial.

 

[Babin Farms]

Hopefully Covid is gone by August & my friends know that I don’t mess around when it comes to kids. I treat them as my own if they are with me. I’m sure they’ll let the friend know. Thanks for the input

 

[Wisefam22]

Hopefully, I know hope in one hand and see bow quick it fills up but.. hopefully they have been around that kid a bit and know you and how that kid will handle them (the friend parent) being in charge and listening.

 

[KC-AR240]

I'd say no to the additional teenage friend. The newcomer is only coming along for companionship for their teenager. That means there won't be enough entertainment/fun on your boat if they can't bring a friend.

 

[BigAbe75]

I'd say no to the additional teenage friend. The newcomer is only coming along for companionship for their teenager. That means there won't be enough entertainment/fun on your boat if they can't bring a friend.

I’m not sure I agree with that, entirely. There could be circumstances that it may be appropriate.

Growing up, by the time my sister was 10 or so... we brought one of her friends with us on every family vacation. She (my sister) was always the odd man out being the only girl and my cousin and I were closer in age and a couple years older. Without her friend she would have been entertaining herself, or hanging with mom and the baby (7 yrs younger).

So, I guess I grew up in a family where we always traveled with friends. One year, we each took a friend with us to the beach... so that was 3 extra kids on our family vacation. looking back, my folks must have had more patience than I give them credit for. Lol

Edit: admittedly, 30 yrs ago we were a somewhat less litigious society.

 

[KC-AR240]

I'd feel bad enough if my friends and anyone in their family were hurt in any way on my boat but I would feel worse if a total stranger was to get hurt......I still wouldn't do it... Full boat