195s / ar195 19ft boat surf setup and tips

[Farny]

This is my original post from July. Going to add a 370 lb sack to the ski locker and 3 50 water bags to the bow. Since the post I began an audio upgrade, second battery, amps etc. It was listing slightly to port so I put 50l lb lead bags in the rear star board compartment to balance it out. I ride goofy so looking for a set up that suits both rider styles without having to move a lot everything form one surfside to the other.
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Thanks for sharing!

 

[Farny]

If you have all the ballast on the "center" of the boat, could a good rider go from one side of the boat to the other and ride "both sides" of the wake?

I definitely wouldn’t say I’m a good rider, but capable. I have switched sides before but only with the rope not ropeless. Regular side is difficult for us goofy footers because your facing away from the wake when you switch. I didn’t last too long lol.

 

[Farny]

Watching the video, it appears that his setup is basically the same as mine. He put a little more weight on the rear seat locker and a little less in the bow, but same positions.

I wonder how easily an AR190 can pull a surfer out of the water with 1200lbs of ballast on board, plus adult crew? I know that my AR195 does it with more horsepower and a larger pump, but even then the engine bogs a bit at the initial launch when pulling a 190-220lb adult surfer out of the water. I personally feel this amount of total weight in the boat is near the limit.

Definitely is a limit - I suppose we need to stay conscious of the boats weight limit. I pulled up a 250lb guy with 5 adults on the boat but had trouble getting to speed at first - I think because we had no weight in the front. I had two move to the bow and it seemed to correct the issue of too much drag. That’s on a 195s.

 

[2kwik4u]

I definitely wouldn’t say I’m a good rider, but capable. I have switched sides before but only with the rope not ropeless. Regular side is difficult for us goofy footers because your facing away from the wake when you switch. I didn’t last too long lol.

The reason I ask is I think that's a complication that would add some entertainment for me. Riding the skate I'm used to switching normal and goofy all the time and ride both equally well. I can even flip the board direction under me a couple times a year and change from normal to goofy in the process (180 myself, and 180 the board), so riding a board "backwards" as well as riding either foot forward is a normal part of riding for me now. I know you can't really ride a surfboard "backwards", and I've surfed a few times behind a boat, but once I figured out how to stay in the pocket I was almost immediately "ready for something else" and started trying to spin on the wave face and things like that. The hope was that swapping from side to side would add a complication to steepen the learning curve and keep a challenge in front of me.

With all that said, I've only ever surfed in the ocean, or behind a dedicated wake boat (Axis, Malibu, and Centurion) so the waves/wakes I've had available were all plenty sizeable for a 225lb 6'2" tall guy, I might be totally overstating my ability to go rope-less on a smaller wake that my 190 might be able to make.

 

[Farny]

The reason I ask is I think that's a complication that would add some entertainment for me. Riding the skate I'm used to switching normal and goofy all the time and ride both equally well. I can even flip the board direction under me a couple times a year and change from normal to goofy in the process (180 myself, and 180 the board), so riding a board "backwards" as well as riding either foot forward is a normal part of riding for me now. I know you can't really ride a surfboard "backwards", and I've surfed a few times behind a boat, but once I figured out how to stay in the pocket I was almost immediately "ready for something else" and started trying to spin on the wave face and things like that. The hope was that swapping from side to side would add a complication to steepen the learning curve and keep a challenge in front of me.

With all that said, I've only ever surfed in the ocean, or behind a dedicated wake boat (Axis, Malibu, and Centurion) so the waves/wakes I've had available were all plenty sizeable for a 225lb 6'2" tall guy, I might be totally overstating my ability to go rope-less on a smaller wake that my 190 might be able to make.

Definitely will add a new challenge. The really good wakesurfers do it. Post some vids when you figure it out! I’m working on the 360 now…not successful yet at continuing in the wave once I get around..
Our boats won’t make the size wave size or the pocket size of the dedicated surf boat. But can be a lot of fun to surf for a significant discount

 

[gallobg]

@2kwik4u You've hit the nail on the head for me. I've surfed my boat for two seasons now and it's been a fun learning experience, but I'm definitely "ready for something else". The pocket I can generate for a 200lb rider is fine to go in a straight line and even have some limited left-right movements, but its far to easy to fall out of the pocket and lose the wave. I want to advance to more tricks etc. that only a longer, taller, wider wave can provide. I am actively shopping wake boats now and will likely switch out sometime next season. Which is unfortunate, because I do love my Yamaha for a lot of reasons except surfing which has become an increasingly important activity for me.

 

[2kwik4u]

@2kwik4u You've hit the nail on the head for me. I've surfed my boat for two seasons now and it's been a fun learning experience, but I'm definitely "ready for something else". The pocket I can generate for a 200lb rider is fine to go in a straight line and even have some limited left-right movements, but its far to easy to fall out of the pocket and lose the wave. I want to advance to more tricks etc. that only a longer, taller, wider wave can provide. I am actively shopping wake boats now and will likely switch out sometime next season. Which is unfortunate, because I do love my Yamaha for a lot of reasons except surfing which has become an increasingly important activity for me.

This is the reason I've shied away from surfing until recently. It felt very much like a "one trick pony" as compared to the skate. Adding in the setup time/expense/setup and it just seemed like it wasn't worth it to me. I can throw on a vest, attach the rope and hop out of the back of the boat and be skating in under a minute. Similar 2-3min "tear down" time when I'm done. Then I have a ton of different things to do that isn't limited to going straight behind the boat in the pocket.

The reason I'm looking into it now is because the wife and boys have expressed an interest in it, and I think it will be an easier sell to them than learning to skate. It's relatively low impact, it's "cool", and it's somewhat easy to learn to get up on the board, even if you don't drop the rope. And if I have to setup for something I would MUCH MUCH rather setup for surfing than I would for tubing. Good grief I HATE that damn tube!

SO, if I could find a setup that would be low impact in terms of time and effort, and produce a surfable wave by most of the people on the boat, I think I would get a LOT more watersports enthusiasm from the rest of the family. Anything I can do to help increase the watersports participation is a win IMO.

 

[2kwik4u]

Stupid question......Anyone ever run DUAL wakeboosters? like run one on both sides at the same time?

 

[Farny]

This is the reason I've shied away from surfing until recently. It felt very much like a "one trick pony" as compared to the skate. Adding in the setup time/expense/setup and it just seemed like it wasn't worth it to me. I can throw on a vest, attach the rope and hop out of the back of the boat and be skating in under a minute. Similar 2-3min "tear down" time when I'm done. Then I have a ton of different things to do that isn't limited to going straight behind the boat in the pocket.

The reason I'm looking into it now is because the wife and boys have expressed an interest in it, and I think it will be an easier sell to them than learning to skate. It's relatively low impact, it's "cool", and it's somewhat easy to learn to get up on the board, even if you don't drop the rope. And if I have to setup for something I would MUCH MUCH rather setup for surfing than I would for tubing. Good grief I HATE that damn tube!

SO, if I could find a setup that would be low impact in terms of time and effort, and produce a surfable wave by most of the people on the boat, I think I would get a LOT more watersports enthusiasm from the rest of the family. Anything I can do to help increase the watersports participation is a win IMO.

Minimum easy setup is the swim deck ballast bag - about 5-10 min. Wife and kids will have plenty of wave area to play on. It’s just us dudes that are a bit more limited

Do you have a pic or vid of you “skating”- not sure what that is?

 

[gallobg]

This is the reason I've shied away from surfing until recently. It felt very much like a "one trick pony" as compared to the skate. Adding in the setup time/expense/setup and it just seemed like it wasn't worth it to me. I can throw on a vest, attach the rope and hop out of the back of the boat and be skating in under a minute. Similar 2-3min "tear down" time when I'm done. Then I have a ton of different things to do that isn't limited to going straight behind the boat in the pocket.

The reason I'm looking into it now is because the wife and boys have expressed an interest in it, and I think it will be an easier sell to them than learning to skate. It's relatively low impact, it's "cool", and it's somewhat easy to learn to get up on the board, even if you don't drop the rope. And if I have to setup for something I would MUCH MUCH rather setup for surfing than I would for tubing. Good grief I HATE that damn tube!

SO, if I could find a setup that would be low impact in terms of time and effort, and produce a surfable wave by most of the people on the boat, I think I would get a LOT more watersports enthusiasm from the rest of the family. Anything I can do to help increase the watersports participation is a win IMO.

You can definitely do it using any of the setups in this thread (subject to our discussion above re hole shot on 190 vs 195 engine), although the wild card would be what you consider to be "low impact in terms of time and effort". It is a minor chore to lug all of the necessary equipment onto the boat each time you want to surf (3 ballast bags, tie-down straps, water pump, Wakebooster, surf board(s), surf rope, etc.). The bigger inconvenience is the setup time - I've gotten pretty good at it but it still takes at least 30 minutes to get everything setup and ready to go, and really requires two people when filling the bags. It's fine when with my family but I wish it was faster/easier when I have guests on board.

There's also cost. I think I've put about $3,500 into my setup to get repeatable results and IMHO, it is difficult to drive down that cost without sacrificing something (except possibly eliminating the Wakebooster, but I honestly think it does produce a better wave than not due to my own back-to-back testing). The balance here is that while not inexpensive, it is still far less cost than a dedicated wake boat.

Edited to add: Please don't misunderstand me - I really enjoy my boat and have enjoyed surfing on it. But I want to be very realistic with everyone about what to expect in terms of effort and cost to enable the 19' boats to produce a repeatable, consistent surf wave for a typical 200 lb adult to enjoy.

 

[2kwik4u]

Minimum easy setup is the swim deck ballast bag - about 5-10 min. Wife and kids will have plenty of wave area to play on. It’s just us dudes that are a bit more limited

Do you have a pic or vid of you “skating”- not sure what that is?

Thanks for the min setup. Might try that with a "fat guy" board and see how it works out. Hvae to get GPS speed control for that too I'm sure.

Here's a video of me skating from vacation in early 2019. I'm not doing anything entertaining here aside from being dangerously close to my buddies pontoon boat You can easily see the skate and how I stand on it though.

Here's another video from the same day. Glassy water was nice. Not doing anything but hanging out on the board in this one.

This is a pretty terrible video, but I do a surface spin kind towards the end. This was the summer after the little one was born, so I was a year out of practice and not very good. Nevermind my buddies fingers in the shot.

New video by Mike Dobrick

photos.app.goo.gl

Just now realizing I have no good videos of me riding the thing, despite how much I talk about it. Gonna have to ask Santa for a GoPro this year!

 

[2kwik4u]

You can definitely do it using any of the setups in this thread (subject to our discussion above re hole shot on 190 vs 195 engine), although the wild card would be what you consider to be "low impact in terms of time and effort". It is a minor chore to lug all of the necessary equipment onto the boat each time you want to surf (3 ballast bags, tie-down straps, water pump, Wakebooster, surf board(s), surf rope, etc.). The bigger inconvenience is the setup time - I've gotten pretty good at it but it still takes at least 30 minutes to get everything setup and ready to go, and really requires two people when filling the bags. It's fine when with my family but I wish it was faster/easier when I have guests on board.

There's also cost. I think I've put about $3,500 into my setup to get repeatable results and IMHO, it is difficult to drive down that cost without sacrificing something (except possibly eliminating the Wakebooster, but I honestly think it does produce a better wave than not due to my own back-to-back testing). The balance here is that while not inexpensive, it is still far less cost than a dedicated wake boat.

Edited to add: Please don't misunderstand me - I really enjoy my boat and have enjoyed surfing on it. But I want to be very realistic with everyone about what to expect in terms of effort and cost to enable the 19' boats to produce a repeatable, consistent surf wave for a typical 200 lb adult to enjoy.

yea, I had in my head it would be a 30min ordeal and $4k so I'm not too far off there. GPS speed control, ballast, wakebooster, pumps, straps, boards, board racks, rope. Lots of things to get in order to get setup to surf. You're 100% correct, it's cheaper than a surf boat, but not cheap in general.

 

[Farny]

Thanks for the min setup. Might try that with a "fat guy" board and see how it works out. Hvae to get GPS speed control for that too I'm sure.

Here's a video of me skating from vacation in early 2019. I'm not doing anything entertaining here aside from being dangerously close to my buddies pontoon boat You can easily see the skate and how I stand on it though.

Here's another video from the same day. Glassy water was nice. Not doing anything but hanging out on the board in this one.

This is a pretty terrible video, but I do a surface spin kind towards the end. This was the summer after the little one was born, so I was a year out of practice and not very good. Nevermind my buddies fingers in the shot.

New video by Mike Dobrick

photos.app.goo.gl

Just now realizing I have no good videos of me riding the thing, despite how much I talk about it. Gonna have to ask Santa for a GoPro this year!

So it’s like a wakeboard no boots! Maybe I can put a footpad on my old wakeboard and give it a go.
I keep the ballast, strap and pump on the boat. So fairly quick setup. No ridesteady, just good training and cruise control for the admiral.

one of the reasons we do more surfing now is because it seems harder and harder to find good water to slalom and wakeboard on. Surfing is more realistic in bumpy conditions. We actually LOVE to slalom, but By the time I get the crew up and on the lake, it’s not glass/or as calm. And I don’t like to ski or wakeboard unless we have good conditions.

but when we have glass, the slalom and wakeboards come out!

 

[2kwik4u]

So it’s like a wakeboard no boots! Maybe I can put a footpad on my old wakeboard and give it a go.
I keep the ballast, strap and pump on the boat. So fairly quick setup. No ridesteady, just good training and cruise control for the admiral.

one of the reasons we do more surfing now is because it seems harder and harder to find good water to slalom and wakeboard on. Surfing is more realistic in bumpy conditions. We actually LOVE to slalom, but By the time I get the crew up and on the lake, it’s not glass/or as calm. And I don’t like to ski or wakeboard unless we have good conditions.

but when we have glass, the slalom and wakeboards come out!

The lack of glass water is why I was looking into a foil. Just get up over the bumps/ripples in the water and fly above it

The skate is a little smaller than a board. It has more "rocker" to it, and has a softer edge, and I usually ride mine without the fins so it's "slippery-er" when you're on it. Come out of a deep water start just like a wakeboard, but it's REALLY squirrely until you're up to speed. Ride it a bit slower than a board as well at around 18mph or so. Can go as high as 20-21mph, but the crashes hurt more and the skate gets really "loose" to ride on.

 

[Farny]

Stupid question......Anyone ever run DUAL wakeboosters? like run one on both sides at the same time?

Anyone tried what @2kwik4u is suggesting? I would think they may cancel each other out since they are intended to direct the jet wash to the other side. Anyone got any experience with this?

 

[SCP1]

Stupid question......Anyone ever run DUAL wakeboosters? like run one on both sides at the same time?

On a 212 it does not work, I would expect the same result on any Yamaha. They cancel each other out. We tried this in Shelbyville, this year.

 

[SCP1]

This is the reason I've shied away from surfing until recently. It felt very much like a "one trick pony" as compared to the skate. Adding in the setup time/expense/setup and it just seemed like it wasn't worth it to me. I can throw on a vest, attach the rope and hop out of the back of the boat and be skating in under a minute. Similar 2-3min "tear down" time when I'm done. Then I have a ton of different things to do that isn't limited to going straight behind the boat in the pocket.

The reason I'm looking into it now is because the wife and boys have expressed an interest in it, and I think it will be an easier sell to them than learning to skate. It's relatively low impact, it's "cool", and it's somewhat easy to learn to get up on the board, even if you don't drop the rope. And if I have to setup for something I would MUCH MUCH rather setup for surfing than I would for tubing. Good grief I HATE that damn tube!

SO, if I could find a setup that would be low impact in terms of time and effort, and produce a surfable wave by most of the people on the boat, I think I would get a LOT more watersports enthusiasm from the rest of the family. Anything I can do to help increase the watersports participation is a win IMO.

Keep in mind your kids can go ropeless with no setup and a slight turn (on a kid board). I had no issues with this on my 195.

 

[Farny]

Update - I am working on a homemade wake enhancer for the 19ft Yamaha’s - got the initial idea from @Stang7tl and his great post about one he did for his scarab. Will post results material list and pictures when I get it finished - material costs all in so far $20 (free piece of starboard and bunk carpet from an awesome associate at Lowe’s - thanks Jamie!)

fingers crossed it works!

 

[Farny]

Update - I am working on a homemade wake enhancer for the 19ft Yamaha’s - got the initial idea from @Stang7tl and his great post about one he did for his scarab. Will post results material list and pictures when I get it finished - material costs all in so far $20 (free piece of starboard and bunk carpet from an awesome associate at Lowe’s - thanks Jamie!)

fingers crossed it works!

Ok first test run today. Definitely pushes water to the other side. Seemed to flatten the wave a bit, going to try tweaking the angle a bit. Here are some pics of the prototype…..

 

[Farny]

Tried to post quick video - doesn’t accept .mov extension. one problem - too much water sneaks between the board and pipe. Caused an extra stream of water with a little turbulence. Next mod - close off that gap… but the good news the prototype held up to the water forces.