1st day out and boat is broken

[msavold]

@Michael Guzzo - I've read your post over a few times and I'm a bit baffled.

The folks on here that know the boat much better than me might correct me here but...

This week end I launched our SX240 with a boat full of people (one a Lieutenant Commander in the Navy...), triumphantly announced "we're off", throttled up and... we didn't move. Gave it more gas - still nada, More noise but no movement. And the light bulb came on. Walked to the back, popped the hatch, re-seated both plugs that were just loosely in the ports, and we were off. Bilge pump was on and not a drop of water came out.

My point is that AFAIK, there are only five ways that a substantial amount of water can get into the bilge: 1) drain plug not in (ask me later how I know that one), 2) clean out plug tray not sealed around the perimeter (the white part with all the screws in it which on some later boats has shipped without adequate sealant), 3) the hose clamps loose around the black hose you can see when you look at the plugs, the one that connects the bottom of the boat where the pumps are to the tray at the top (note: clamps only visible when you remove the inspection hatch in the clean out plug tray, the one between the two plugs), 4) a CRAPLOAD of water on the boat from say, a sub move or a wave, and 5) a gash in the side of the boat!

As an aside, from what I've read here from the unfortunate few that have taken on water after a true plug blow out while under way, it's much more of a catastrophic event - as in "oh, look, there, in the sky, there goes our plug!". Which is why plug locks - or at least nerf footballs, if not both, come so highly recommended here.

So, don't beat yourself up over this - assuming that the drain plug was in (& not leaking somehow), you didn't take a huge wave or gash the bottom of the boat, there is really NO WAY that you could have foreseen either of the other two possibilities - new boat owner or otherwise. And just having the plugs out - without one of the other two issues (clamp/sealant) present, should just make noise but not let water in.

And then there is the matter of the bilge pump not running unless the switches are on both on and "combined" (basically an 'emergency' condition - when one battery doesn't have enough juice and both might get 'er going)...
Huh?
I just checked - your boat has something like 167 HOURS on it per your old post? And the bilge pump has NEVER worked properly? (How could it have if it was wired "weird". I think we've pretty much all had that "oh, crap the drain plug!" moment - at the very least there must have been some occasion for the bilge pump to come on...) Why do I see a BS flag waving?
(BTW, remember that when the hull is in water the bilge pump is ON. Since it should be on even before starting the engines, when you hit the switch you should be able to hear it run for a few seconds.)

Do you have service records on the boat? Can you get them to see what's been done in the past 167 hours? Just out of curiosity mind you. Bottom line - if they're going to fix what we all pretty much think was THEIR screw up, and assuming your drain plug was tight . there's nothing you did to get that much water into the boat or could have done to prevent it.

 

[swatski]

@Michael Guzzo - I've read your post over a few times and I'm a bit baffled.

The folks on here that know the boat much better than me might correct me here but...

This week end I launched our SX240 with a boat full of people (one a Lieutenant Commander in the Navy...), triumphantly announced "we're off", throttled up and... we didn't move. Gave it more gas - still nada, More noise but no movement. And the light bulb came on. Walked to the back, popped the hatch, re-seated both plugs that were just loosely in the ports, and we were off. Bilge pump was on and not a drop of water came out.

My point is that AFAIK, there are only five ways that a substantial amount of water can get into the bilge: 1) drain plug not in (ask me later how I know that one), 2) clean out plug tray not sealed around the perimeter (the white part with all the screws in it which on some later boats has shipped without adequate sealant), 3) the hose clamps loose around the black hose you can see when you look at the plugs, the one that connects the bottom of the boat where the pumps are to the tray at the top (note: clamps only visible when you remove the inspection hatch in the clean out plug tray, the one between the two plugs), 4) a CRAPLOAD of water on the boat from say, a sub move or a wave, and 5) a gash in the side of the boat!

As an aside, from what I've read here from the unfortunate few that have taken on water after a true plug blow out while under way, it's much more of a catastrophic event - as in "oh, look, there, in the sky, there goes our plug!". Which is why plug locks - or at least nerf footballs, if not both, come so highly recommended here.

So, don't beat yourself up over this - assuming that the drain plug was in (& not leaking somehow), you didn't take a huge wave or gash the bottom of the boat, there is really NO WAY that you could have foreseen either of the other two possibilities - new boat owner or otherwise. And just having the plugs out - without one of the other two issues (clamp/sealant) present, should just make noise but not let water in.

And then there is the matter of the bilge pump not running unless the switches are on both on and "combined" (basically an 'emergency' condition - when one battery doesn't have enough juice and both might get 'er going)...
Huh?
I just checked - your boat has something like 167 HOURS on it per your old post? And the bilge pump has NEVER worked properly? (How could it have if it was wired "weird". I think we've pretty much all had that "oh, crap the drain plug!" moment - at the very least there must have been some occasion for the bilge pump to come on...) Why do I see a BS flag waving?
(BTW, remember that when the hull is in water the bilge pump is ON. Since it should be on even before starting the engines, when you hit the switch you should be able to hear it run for a few seconds.)

Do you have service records on the boat? Can you get them to see what's been done in the past 167 hours? Just out of curiosity mind you. Bottom line - if they're going to fix what we all pretty much think was THEIR screw up, and assuming your drain plug was tight . there's nothing you did to get that much water into the boat or could have done to prevent it.

Clean out plugs don't have to be all "in" or "out", they can be kind of crooked and kind of stuck there enough to let the pump function okay, but at the same time letting water under pressure fill the engine compartment (through bilge) quickly. That clamp on the rubber hose/pipe will not completely stop water under pressure.

Re: bilge pump, I would think if the PO always ran it "combined" this bilge pump would be working.

 

[tdonoughue]

That certainly wins, I think, for suckiest first trip. Myself, I waited until the second trip in the boat to forget to seat the plugs, leading to water in the bilge and the discovery that the breaker for the bilge pump was faulty. Fortunately, I caught it in time... Came back in, drained everything, etc.

I agree with everyone. You did everything you could and did a good job of catching it all. Highly questionable dealer, of course, at least for how they prepped or inspected it. Or didn't. Good that they are saying they will fix it, but I would be sure to check over their work carefully...

 

[Michael Guzzo]

I completely agree @Gym . And the dealer had so much time to prep it because my financing took 3+ weeks. Even so they were scrambling the morning I got there to clean the boat, install the Bimini, and the salesperson had to drive to the shop down the street to pick up one of the 4 big screw bolts (not sure the correct name) for the tower. We noticed it was missing during the water test and then I had to point out that it was still not there the day of sale. All in all I waited around about 1.5 hours to finally get the boat.

Believe it or not this is a huge power sports dealership that sells tons of new and used Yamaha boats. They are not however on a body of water.

I did get the boat for about $4k below NADA but it's not seeming like it was worth the hassle.

 

[Michael Guzzo]

Thanks @msavold and everyone else for making me feel less incompetent. I am going back and forth with how I am going to handle this situation. I will definitely keep everyone posted on the outcome.

 

[d_coyne1984]

I believe the law in MN states that you have 30 days to legally back out of any contract. I'm not sure if Florida has a similar law on the books, but might be something to look into. That said, the issues you had are part of the Yamaha Jet drawbacks and can happen in any boat, new or used. If they are willing to fix it at no cost to you and if you feel like you got a good price on the boat, it might be worth it to stick with this boat. It sounds like the salesmen who took you out might not have known what the eff they were doing. I have learned from my own experiences and from those of others on here that you never let anyone EVER install your clean out plugs, install your bilge drain plugs, attach your trailer winch and safety chain, or your transom straps without thoroughly inspecting them yourself. Now that you know these things I doubt that you will ever have an issue like this again.

 

[Michael Guzzo]

I just called the dealership service center to check in and was told my boat was up and running and would be ready for pickup today after 4. It turns out that the wiring for the bilge was not incorrect but rather the 2nd battery (which is not used to start the engine) was dead when I picked up the boat. I am not sure which is worse. Being that it worked fine when we had the water test and dead a week or so later I requested that they provide me with a new battery. The sales person is "seeing what he can do". I also asked the service manager about the possibility of an issue with the clean out plugs/ports and he says they took it on a water test today and all is fine. Not sure what else I could do.


I have drafted up an e-mail documenting all of the issues that I encountered throughout the process, in it I am requesting that they warranty any resulting issues I may encounter over the next ? months (haven't figured that number out yet). Now I just need to figure out who to send it to.

 

[Smassey22180]

Leaks are a common problem with these boats. I am in the habit of checking the ski locker ever so often. If I get any water in the bilge, it is visible in the ski locker at idle (with internal plugs removed).

 

[Bruce]

@Smassey22180, do you not have your bilge pump on when your boat is in the water?

Leaks should not be common. If you do have a leak find it and seal it.

 

[Zarrella]

Good Luck....I think you are going to be fine. I personally would do another oil change myself right away for piece of mind.
And I would order the plug rebuild kits if the Dealership did not replace or rebuild them.

 

[Smassey22180]

@Smassey22180, do you not have your bilge pump on when your boat is in the water?

Leaks should not be common. If you do have a leak find it and seal it.

The pump is on but as we all know, they sometimes jam up. And yes leaks should not be common but they are with our boats. This forum has several leak posts per day. You won't see that on the SeaRay forum . My goal is a 100% dry bilge because the wet causes mildew here in FL.

 

[2nazt]

Leaks are not a common thing. Most people report a leak here and then fix it. People usually won't write a post to say their bilge is dry. I just had my boat in the ocean moored to a ball and used heavy in 3-6' seas in the Keys, and when I retrieved it on the trailer and pulled plug it was dry not even a drop came out.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Sorry to read about your bad experience the very thing I recently posted about new boat owners not knowing about the perils of a loose clean out plug and not having the experience to recognize that there is a problem with the boat .
Let me say that there is a way to get the water out of the engine more efficiently that just changing the oil and filter a few times.
First drain as much of the water and oil as you can from as far down in the sump as possible, then pour in a quart of dextron 2 transmission fluid and let it sit a while, crank over the engine a few times but do not start it or run it, check the color of the trans fluid if it is milky suck it out and put in another quart, when it stops discoloring and stays red, you have removed the majority of the water.
Transmission fluid is a catalyst for water and oil, IMAGINE THAT! And it will also remove any small amount of water that may be left behind after you change it all out ,just add a pint to your oil to finish the job, it also is a good detergrnt for oil it will remove dirt and sludge. Oh one more thing clean the throttle body really good and oil it well because they can get corroded and stick if they get wet and you had water in your air cleaner .

 

[haknslash]

Leaks are not a common thing. Most people report a leak here and then fix it. People usually won't write a post to say their bilge is dry. I just had my boat in the ocean moored to a ball and used heavy in 3-6' seas in the Keys, and when I retrieved it on the trailer and pulled plug it was dry not even a drop came out.

When we were in rough water with 3'+ waves along with massive wakes taking a few bow shots, lots of water spray, etc and my bilge area was as dry as it was when on the trailer. In fact the only time it got water in there was when I was flushing and cleaning the boat and I opened all the plugs to allow water to drain to the bilge so it would shoot it out.

 

[MrMoose]

Based on my experience with my brand new 2015 AR240, I have to agree with @Smassey22180. My new boat had multiple leaks, and it took a year to find and fix them all. I immediately flagged the issue to the dealership, and their response was "they all leak", and they did nothing about the problem other than to lie on the service records to say that the boat did not leak.
I found a better dealer, who initially said "they all leak a bit, so don't expect a dry bilge". Some types of leaks are hard to isolate and correct, and others are obvious. I really had to stay on top of my dealer to get them to fix all of the difficult ones, like the leaking drive shafts that would give me about 2 gallons of water in the bilge with just 4 minutes of WOT. It was a very painful process, and I'm curious as to whether other manufacturers have the same issues. I had 7 leaks: right drive shaft, left drive shaft, scupper, clean-out tray, clean-out tray access port, rear deck cup holder, helm cup holder. The drive shafts were the big ones. I've seen first-hand a FSH in the showroom that did not have the clamps installed on the clean-out tube; the service tech told the service manager to put in a warranty claim to have it fixed... didn't happen and guess what, a month later it leaked during a test drive; go figure.

 

[Michael Guzzo]

Update: I picked up the boat this afternoon. When I got to the dealership service center the service manager (who was awesome both my visits there) informed me that the owner would offer me a 2 year warranty which normally costs $2,500 for a boat my age for 50% off. In addition, if I have not used the warranty once the 2 years is up they will refund me the full $1,250. I don't really see much difference between this and a free 2 year warranty. He said that it will cover everything but cosmetic issues. I have to decide by tomorrow if I will buy it or not but I am definitely leaning towards yes.

They did replace the dead battery with a new one. They also informed me that the new Bimini had a small tear in it. An almost comical story was that one of the younger kids that works there went to bring the boat out with a forklift and lifted it while the rear ladder was down bending it and the bracket piece that holds it in. They had already promised to drive to my house (40 minutes away) to fix the bimini so they will now be bringing a new ladder and bracket on that trip to replace as well.

On a positive note I took it straight from the service center to a nearby lake and the boat is running great!

 

[msavold]

@Michael Guzzo , well played, sir!
(BTW, the warranty is a Yamaha Y.E.S. warranty, right?)

 

[Michael Guzzo]

Not sure to be honest @msavold. I suppose I will check that upon purchasing it tomorrow.

 

[itsdgm]

Glad to hear that your second outing went much better than the first.

1. Make sure to check your oil. For water (milkshake looking), and to make sure that the level is ok.

2. Call other dealers and see what they sell the YES warranty for. However, last I was aware, you couldn't extend a YES warranty if the original warranty had expired. But maybe a dealer can? Either way, look over the warranty carefully. Ask specific questions. Some of the aftermarket warranties look good on paper, but.....

Anyway, glad to see that you're headed in the right direction.

 

[4x15mph]

@Michael Guzzo , glad to hear you are back on the water. Pick up a set of Ez-locks for those plugs so that they stay seated. That may have been mentioned but if not, I would get these installed asap to prevent any future blowouts.