2005 SX230HO Milky Oil

[kjr6306]

Thanks GT5.
Yes, it was #31 in the diagram. It has a very small tear but I may have damaged the gasket when I was removing it. I'm pretty certain now that I have an issue with the head gasket, head, or block. Trying to figure out the timing marks now for setting the cams and crank so I can reinstall everything and have the timing right. I am reading there are timing marks on the cam gears which will help. Then I just need to mark the crank position and I should be good to go to remove the head.

I am having one issue. Is there a trick for removing the water pipe entering the head on top of the valve cover? I removed the rubber gasket and single allen bolt, but the thing won't budge!

 

[Brad_Ct]

That tube can be a pain to get out the first time, all that holds it in is the Allen screw but mine had corroded to the head. Spray around the pipe with penetrating oil and turn it from side to side while pulling it at the same time.

That is another seal that could allow water to get into the oil so check and make sure it doesn’t look like it has been leaking and I would replace the o-ring when putting it back together.

 

[Cambo]

There were some reported leaks in that area some how the sealing failed and would let water into the oil so keep an eye on how it comes apart inspecting for water infiltration

 

[kjr6306]

Sprayed the tube with WD-40 (it’s all I had) several times and let it sit for a couple of days as I had to go out of town. Finally got the tube out.

Are there any timing marks on the cams or sprockets? the only marks I see are on the sprockets but they don't line up to anything at tdc.
he

 

[kjr6306]

After doing some searching and coming up empty, I took a closer look at the cams. At TDC there is a small hole on each cam that lines up with an arrow on the bearing caps. I am going to use these for the timing marks and mark the output shaft in case the crank moves. Zoom in on the picture and you can see there is a line under the arrow to help line up the dots.

 

[kjr6306]

The Head is off. Clearly getting water into one of the cylinders and the gasket is compromised.

 

[kjr6306]

Put a little more thought into this and am still not 100% sure how water can be getting into my oil system. The head gasket is leaking in one small spot from the water jacket to the combustion chamber. If anything I would have low compression and exhaust gases leaking into the water jacket. Nowhere does the oil even come close. The only way water can get into the oil is if the head is cracked or the oil cooler has a leak. I pressurized the water side of the oil cooler and it held so that is not the problem. I did find multiple spots of corrosion on the head and exhaust manifold and am sure one of those spots was leaking a good amount of water into the bilge. The other corrosion on the head is causing the combustion leak so my head is pretty much junk unless I can get someone to weld it. At this point, I am going to try and find a used head. Will post some pictures of the corrosion soon.

 

[kjr6306]

Did a little work this morning and think I finally found my smoking gun. As mentioned, I was not convinced that a bad exhaust manifold or head gasket was the cause of the water getting in my oil (more on this shortly). I made up a blocking plate using a steel plate and a scrap piece of rubber to block off all of the water jacket holes around each cylinder. I also plugged each of the 4 small holes that allow water into the exhaust manifold. Essentially now all of the ways that water normally exits the head have been sealed. Next, I reattached the water inlet pipe back on top of the head and attached a short piece of rubber hose to it. Essentially, this is the only place that water enters the head. Next, I blew air into the rubber hose and listened for air leaks. Basically, this is what a shop would do if you took the head to pressure test it. An air leak was discovered between 2 cylinders on the intake side. I sprayed some soapy water in the area and confirmed a major breach between the oil and water passages. Definitely a crack in this area and this definitely would explain how water could be entering the oil. The head is shot.

Now back to the general problem of water getting into the oil on these engines. In my opinion, there are only 3 ways this is possible. 1) leaking oil cooler. 2) cracked head. 3) blown head gasket (highly unlikely) around the oil galley where oil drains back to the oil pan from the head. I say highly unlikely as there is no pressure in this area. The oil just gravity feeds back to the pan.

The theory that a leaking exhaust manifold will somehow cause water to get back into the oil system is almost impossible as there are no oil galleys anywhere close to the exhaust manifold. A corroded manifold can cause water to leak into the bilge and it can let water leak into the combustion chamber and exhaust manifold but there is no way for that water to get back to the oil system.

Also, a bad head gasket will let water into the cylinder and exhaust gas out to the water jacket. This will cause low compression and can be verified with a compression check or leak-down check of each cylinder.

 

[Beachbummer]

I think the prior reports are that when the corrosion is between the water jacket and the exhaust, water pours into the exhaust, into the cylinders, and then overflows (or drips into)the oil sump.

 

[Cambo]

The theory that a leaking exhaust manifold will somehow cause water to get back into the oil system is almost impossible as there are no oil galleys anywhere close to the exhaust manifold. A corroded manifold can cause water to leak into the bilge and it can let water leak into the combustion chamber and exhaust manifold but there is no way for that water to get back to the oil system.

Unfortunately its not a theory its a confirmed failure and repair we fixed my friends boat and its still running years later. What happens is a small amount of water makes it into the cylinder not enough to hydro lock but some gets in weeps past the rings and gets into the oil. similar to when a fuel injector sticks open from the failed computer and the gas gets down into the oil.

 

[kjr6306]

Sorry....that explanation is laughable. Water weeping past rings on a running engine? Seriously? Even if a small amount of water made it into a cylinder with it running it would be instantly turned to steam and sent out the exhaust.

 

[Babin Farms]

It's really no different than a bad head gasket or cylinder liner allowing coolant into an area where it's not supposed to be.

 

[kjr6306]

It's very different than a blown head gasket. Not trying to be a jerk, just keeping the info real for others that may have this issue. There are oil passages that travel through the head. A blown head gasket could let water get into the oil and vice versa. Simply not the case with a corroded exhaust manifold as there are no oil passages anywhere close to the exhaust manifold. The only place leaking water could go is back into the combustion chamber where it would either hydro lock the engine or turn to steam and sent out the exhaust.

 

[Babin Farms]

But it's been proven that this can be an issue from numerous forum members. They have had milky oil, tore things down, found a corroded manifold, repaired and it fixed the issue.

 

[Scottintexas]

It's very different than a blown head gasket. Not trying to be a jerk, just keeping the info real for others that may have this issue. There are oil passages that travel through the head. A blown head gasket could let water get into the oil and vice versa. Simply not the case with a corroded exhaust manifold as there are no oil passages anywhere close to the exhaust manifold. The only place leaking water could go is back into the combustion chamber where it would either hydro lock the engine or turn to steam and sent outg the exhaust.

I'm not a mechanic so I'm very interested in understanding how this all works,

thanks for sharing your diagnoses method,
did you listen for leaks through the spark plug holes?
just to confirm, you found a crack internally from one cylinder wall to another ?? we've not heard of that problem before,

If you don't think the corroded manifold allows water into the block can you tell me why a stuck fuel injector allows fuel to get into the block, wouldn't it also just get pushed out the exhaust valve,

 

[Cambo]

Sorry....that explanation is laughable. Water weeping past rings on a running engine? Seriously? Even if a small amount of water made it into a cylinder with it running it would be instantly turned to steam and sent out the exhaust.

I'm sorry that your member status here has been very short and would take you a long time to learn all the info to know this is a documented failed part and repair by myself on this site as well as the original Y amaha jet [HASH=6786]#aoterss[/HASH] site . I added info about gas getting past the cylinder as well it sounds like it couldn't happen but it does. To your point about the steam yes the cylinder that has the breach gets steam cleaned one member pulled the head and mentioned how clean it was on that cylinder. My friends boat had steam coming out of the pisser tube while at idle. There is a lot of bad info posted but this is first person cause and effect, the new exhaust manifold solved the problem no more milky oil. Cracked blocks have been the most prevalent cause of milky oil. The cause of the manifold breach was most likely due to a 3/4'' branch that was wedged in the jet housing casing some cavitation but not major, the pissers were still flowing the engine light came on but it never went into limp mode on a 40 minute ride he thought it was a failed heat sensor since the pisser was flowing.

Cars don't have this issue but boats that have water cooled exhaust manifolds can have this happen.

https://community.cartalk.com/t/can-water-in-cylinder-milkshake-oil/48617

 

[WREKS]

I'm trying to mentally figure out how a leak in the exhaust manifold can get water into the oil?? If the leak is in the combustion chamber, the water would instantly turn into steam. I guess theoretically there is the possibility that the water could be sucked in on the intake stroke and make its way into the intake manifold and back into the cylinder head. Is this even possible as it's the only way I can think that it could happen?

Steam will bypass the rings easier than water.

 

[WREKS]

I'm not a mechanic so I'm very interested in understanding how this all works,

thanks for sharing your diagnoses method,
did you listen for leaks through the spark plug holes?
just to confirm, you found a crack internally from one cylinder wall to another ?? we've not heard of that problem before,

If you don't think the corroded manifold allows water into the block can you tell me why a stuck fuel injector allows fuel to get into the block, wouldn't it also just get pushed out the exhaust valve,

Valve stems pass through the exhaust ports. Steam could get to the top of the cylinder head.

 

[kjr6306]

I'm sorry that your member status here has been very short and would take you a long time to learn all the info to know this is a documented failed part and repair by myself on this site as well as the original Y amaha jet [HASH=6786]#aoterss[/HASH] site . I added info about gas getting past the cylinder as well it sounds like it couldn't happen but it does. To your point about the steam yes the cylinder that has the breach gets steam cleaned one member pulled the head and mentioned how clean it was on that cylinder. My friends boat had steam coming out of the pisser tube while at idle. There is a lot of bad info posted but this is first person cause and effect, the new exhaust manifold solved the problem no more milky oil. Cracked blocks have been the most prevalent cause of milky oil. The cause of the manifold breach was most likely due to a 3/4'' branch that was wedged in the jet housing casing some cavitation but not major, the pissers were still flowing the engine light came on but it never went into limp mode on a 40 minute ride he thought it was a failed heat sensor since the pisser was flowing.

Cars don't have this issue but boats that have water cooled exhaust manifolds can have this happen.

https://community.cartalk.com/t/can-water-in-cylinder-milkshake-oil/48617

I'm sorry....your post makes absolutely no sense. It took me quite some time to research the actual causes of water getting into the oil and your responses make it obvious that you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[kjr6306]

I'm not a mechanic so I'm very interested in understanding how this all works,

thanks for sharing your diagnoses method,
did you listen for leaks through the spark plug holes?
just to confirm, you found a crack internally from one cylinder wall to another ?? we've not heard of that problem before,

If you don't think the corroded manifold allows water into the block can you tell me why a stuck fuel injector allows fuel to get into the block, wouldn't it also just get pushed out the exhaust valve,