AR190 impeller

[WilCo]

Finally had the chance to take the boat out and pull something since I had an extra driver and observer. As warned by the dealership that I had my post-buy inspection/warranty transfer done at, the impeller did not produce sufficient thrust to quickly get someone out of the water...so I'm looking to replace it. Dealership's cost estimate was ~$850 if I remember right with about 2/3 of that being labor.

I'm going to call a non-Yamaha shop that I have used with another boat and see what their estimate is, but thought I'd check here. How easy is it to do on my own?

I have not found any YouTube videos or similar on it and even the threads I see here -- I'm not exactly sure where to start. Like literally where to start disassembling things. Do I need to start at the nozzle at the back of the boat or the engine compartment?

If anyone has done this before and is willing to provide some step by step (really basic) directions, I would greatly appreciate so I can better assess whether I can do this on my own.

Also - best I can tell Solas doesn't have an impeller for a 2013 AR190 so I need to go Yamaha.
Any other parts that I should replace while I'm doing the impeller?

Thanks guys!

 

[Bruce]

Did you buy a used boat with a damaged impeller?

Doing the work yourself I the cost should be closer to $250.

This thread has a good video showing how to remove the pump https://jetboaters.net/threads/yamaha-jet-pump-disassembly-from-grant-browne-youtube.446/

I believe this is your impeller
http://www.partspak.com/productcart/pc/Yamaha-6CW-R1321-01-00-Impeller-6CWR13210100-2942p384754.htm

You will need a spline tool, a wrench to hold the impeller and a large vise to change the impeller.

 

[Bruce]

This post has good info on changing the impeller itself https://jetboaters.net/threads/impeller-stuck-good-broke-my-vise.10220/#post-174992

Dr. @swatski tested many, many combinations of impellers and modifications in his SX190 and found that the factory impeller was best.

 

[WilCo]

Thanks Bruce! I will check them out tonight.

Yes, boat had a damaged impeller that wasn't disclosed. I plan to follow up with better business bureau as dealership was unwilling to assist at all when I reported it.

 

[swatski]

Finally had the chance to take the boat out and pull something since I had an extra driver and observer. As warned by the dealership that I had my post-buy inspection/warranty transfer done at, the impeller did not produce sufficient thrust to quickly get someone out of the water...so I'm looking to replace it. Dealership's cost estimate was ~$850 if I remember right with about 2/3 of that being labor.

I'm going to call a non-Yamaha shop that I have used with another boat and see what their estimate is, but thought I'd check here. How easy is it to do on my own?

I have not found any YouTube videos or similar on it and even the threads I see here -- I'm not exactly sure where to start. Like literally where to start disassembling things. Do I need to start at the nozzle at the back of the boat or the engine compartment?

If anyone has done this before and is willing to provide some step by step (really basic) directions, I would greatly appreciate so I can better assess whether I can do this on my own.

Also - best I can tell Solas doesn't have an impeller for a 2013 AR190 so I need to go Yamaha.
Any other parts that I should replace while I'm doing the impeller?

Thanks guys!

I would need to dig through my notes, Solas does have an impeller (Concord) with the right pitch for 190s. Nice and smooth, good for cruising and maybe a 0.5mph extra on top, maybe.
But in my (fairly extensive) experience the OEM impeller performs best for pulling/towing sports. By far. It looks ugly but that can be deceiving, lol. Has the longest blades and works best overall.

It is a strait forward DIY. The key part being - to get the old impeller off, it can be stuck. I'll post links.

Do you know if your impeller is damaged? shoot some picks from both sides in the pump tunnel that would help.

--

 

[WilCo]

Yamaha told me it's damaged, but I don't even know how to access it yet so haven't laid eyes on it.
When they gave the boat the once over, they said they can see it is damaged, but did not pull it to see the extent of damage (or something like that). They suggested I test it out first to see if it still had enough to tow people. I did that yesterday and it was not acceptable. For example, I could not get up on slalom -- could only get up with dual skis and had to kick one off...otherwise I drug for about 10 seconds. Wakeboard popped right up, but it's a whole lot more buoyant.

 

[WilCo]

alright - watched most of the youtube video -- had seen it this morning when I was looking around, but since it was a jet ski -- assumed that it wasn't the same as the boat. Bad assumption it sounds like.
Looks relatively straight-forward so I may attempt to access the impeller and take some pictures one evening this week, time permitting.

Next stupid question, but I like to learn where to find my own information too...how did you find the part number for the impeller? When I search for yamaha impeller jet boat or similar, I haven't gotten any worthwhile results yet. (EDIT: Found a site - http://www.yamahapartshouse.com/oemparts/#/c/yamaha_sport_boat_2013/parts)

Another likely really simple question for you guys, but it's all new to me. What is a spline tool? All it pulls up when I search is a tool to change the screens on a window.

You guys are awesome and a wealth of info...thanks!

 

[Bruce]

At one time @swatski had a source for $156 impller

Next stupid question, but I like to learn where to find my own information too...how did you find the part number for the impeller? When I search for yamaha impeller jet boat or similar, I haven't gotten any worthwhile results yet.

Google for 2013 Yamaha AR190 parts. Several parts lists will come up.

For example http://www.yamahapartshouse.com/oemparts/l/yam/504f8d1df870023338d0dbf5/2013-ar190-rx1800am-parts

Click on the Jet Unit 1 parts list which includes the impeller.

The diagram shows it is part #25 which is 6CW-R1321-01-00

Another likely really simple question for you guys, but it's all new to me. What is a spline tool? All it pulls up when I search is a tool to change the screens on a window.

I believe the Solas WR014H is the correct spline tool for your boat.

 

[swatski]

alright - watched most of the youtube video -- had seen it this morning when I was looking around, but since it was a jet ski -- assumed that it wasn't the same as the boat. Bad assumption it sounds like.
Looks relatively straight-forward so I may attempt to access the impeller and take some pictures one evening this week, time permitting.

Next stupid question, but I like to learn where to find my own information too...how did you find the part number for the impeller? When I search for yamaha impeller jet boat or similar, I haven't gotten any worthwhile results yet. (EDIT: Found a site - http://www.yamahapartshouse.com/oemparts/#/c/yamaha_sport_boat_2013/parts)

Another likely really simple question for you guys, but it's all new to me. What is a spline tool? All it pulls up when I search is a tool to change the screens on a window.

You guys are awesome and a wealth of info...thanks!

What @Bruce said.

Spline tool is for holding the shaft in a vise without damaging splines. Might as well buy one along with the impeller. For some curious reason the impellers for twins are cheaper, but at $220 or so - you are still better off buying new than refurbishing (don't get me going on that) - and you will have a spare - if you do want to refurbish the one you are taking off.

You will also want the L13 anti-cavitation cone - for sure - see below.

I would not consider Solas for your boat. They look nice and shiny but you would hate it for what you do (competition ski).

Here is some reading on the cone (sorry I'm in a rush but that will give you a good idea):
Check this out, post #25 kind of tells it all:
https://jetboaters.net/threads/anyo...ce-adjustable-pump-cone-in-a-boat.7967/page-2
I would start with no boring of the nozzle.

Here is some newer discussion:
https://jetboaters.net/threads/anyo...ce-adjustable-pump-cone-in-a-boat.7967/page-2

And possible group buy that could save you some money:
https://jetboaters.net/threads/luck...buy-march-1st-to-31st-2017.12544/#post-217479

I find the cone to work as advertised. It is a MAJOR help with cavitation prevention (which is basically impeller slippage - kind of like loss of traction in a car).

You still need to make sure your pump segments and transom plate are sealed - if the pump is missing sealant and sucking air from outside there is not a cure for that. But it does not sound like you have that problem.

Here is what I would recommend best settings for the L13 equipped pump on my (old) 190 boat would be:
1. OEM impeller - in good shape, no nicks and no big gap between the impeller blades and the wear ring - ODed to specs (outside diameter)
2. L13 cone stacked with all three rings (which would equal 12mm - a combination of red, blue, and gold spacer)
3. OEM venturi (85mm stock); You can bore it out to 88mm if you are still having impeller slippage (when pulling/towing heavy)

Also, the ribbon delete is a NO BRAINER - free power gain across the range and bit more on top, expect to see about 200RPM gain at WOT. I don't think the spacer makes a difference. Just make sure you remove the rubber seal along with the ribbon.

Let me know if you have any questions!

--

 

[WilCo]

So I took a picture tonight -- it doesn't look that bad to me. Could this really be the cause of my performance issues?

IMG_4536

• WilCo
• Jun 13, 2017
• 4

Wilco's AR190 impeller

 

[swatski]

So I took a picture tonight -- it doesn't look that bad to me. Could this really be the cause of my performance issues?

IMG_4536

• WilCo
• Jun 13, 2017
• 4

Wilco's AR190 impeller

Oh heck yeah, that could explain your cavitation issues. Looks like you have found some gravel/rocks. These pumps are like huge vacuum cleaners, can pick up large rocks from 3 ft away.
I would definitely pull that pump and the impeller. There is clearly damage on the trailing edges which per se is not a huge problem, but who knows what the leading edges look like. And the OD - that really drives cavitation if you are off specs (the gap between the wear ring and impeller blades).
Do you have the shop manual? if not, please pm me your email I can send you a copy. COmes in handy.

--

 

[Bruce]

That thing has been used to film an episode of will it blend!

 

[WilCo]

well there you go...I didn't think it looked that bad!

 

[WilCo]

Unit is out. Definitely has some leading edge issues. Do I need to replace the ring inside also? Also attached photo of most damaged leading edge.

 

[swatski]

Unit is out. Definitely has some leading edge issues. Do I need to replace the ring inside also? Also attached photo of most damaged leading edge.

Looks like your impeller is definitely shot. Not sure about the wear ring, it may be okay. Is this whitish sealant soft? (like 3M 5200?)
You may be able to fix it, just cut or sand down and re-seal the channel with 3M 5200 or 4200.

--

 

[WilCo]

I had reassembled already before your reply. Took the boat out yesterday and seemed to perform well (forward went forward, reverse went backwards, left went left, etc.) so I call that a success for my first repair job.

I probably won't pull a skiier again for 2 weeks so won't know if that part is fixed or not until then. I did tow a tube and a kneeboard, but both of those don't need the initial surge of power so hard to say for sure if problem solved or not. Regardless, had a great day on the lake so we'll call it success.

 

[WilCo]

Pulled a skiier this weekend and they popped up quickly. Thanks to all for the support!