Batteries <electric vehicle battery>

[Nakk]

But probably 90% of cars on the road aren't taken off the road due to powertrain issues... They're wrecked, beyond economical repair, etc. .

Since you didn't provide a reference, I looked into this. Unfortunately, your claim is not accurate. Roughly 15 - 17 million cars a year were sold from 2014 to 2019, depending on which year you look at. Auto accidents run around 6 million/year for cars and 5 million/year for light trucks. Of those, on average 18% are totaled, the number varies by vehicle age running from a low of around 5% for newer vehicles to a high of around 30% for older vehicles. So about 2.16 million vehicles a year are totaled. Now, a lot of those are rebuilt. let's say .16 million are, that seems fair. That leaves 2 million scrapped due to accidents/year. From 2014 to 2019 vehicles registered in the US grew by 16 million. In that time roughly 80 million new cars were were sold. 80 million minus 16 million is 64 million cars taken out of service, of which 10 million were due to accidents, therefore 54 million just wore out.

TLDR: From 2014 to 2019 vehicles taken out of service due to accident accounted for 15.6% of the total. 84.4% just wore out.

Car ownership statistics
Car sales statistics
Crash statistics
Cars totaled statistics

 

[BlkGS]

Since you didn't provide a reference, I looked into this. Unfortunately, your claim is not accurate. Roughly 15 - 17 million cars a year were sold from 2014 to 2019, depending on which year you look at. Auto accidents run around 6 million/year for cars and 5 million/year for light trucks. Of those, on average 18% are totaled, the number varies by vehicle age running from a low of around 5% for newer vehicles to a high of around 30% for older vehicles. So about 2.16 million vehicles a year are totaled. Now, a lot of those are rebuilt. let's say .16 million are, that seems fair. That leaves 2 million scrapped due to accidents/year. From 2014 to 2019 vehicles registered in the US grew by 16 million. In that time roughly 80 million new cars were were sold. 80 million minus 16 million is 64 million cars taken out of service, of which 10 million were due to accidents, therefore 54 million just wore out.

TLDR: From 2014 to 2019 vehicles taken out of service due to accident accounted for 15.6% of the total. 84.4% just wore out.

Car ownership statistics
Car sales statistics
Crash statistics
Cars totaled statistics

Couple thoughts, not to say you didn't do a great job, and you certainly.looked into it way more than me...

That 84% is just "not reported totaled by a responding insurance company". Or said another way, 16% were higher value cars with full coverage. Less expensive cars where people say "I'm not going to pay for more than liability" would be part of the 84%, and likely a very large portion of it.

That 84% also includes cars that are beyond economic repair, not necessarily non functional, but maybe their paint is shot and they have a leaky ac condenser and the seats are torn. Again, a very common situation, and if it's traded in on a newer car for pennies, the dealer will likely send it to a scrap auction, because the dealer ain't gonna fix it. I had a neighbor as a kid who bought cars from.scrap auctions, put a couple hundred bucks into them, and then sent them over to the Bahamas or other islands.

Anyways, just some thoughts, I don't have time.to actually dig for stats.

 

[tabbibus]

Speaking of totaled... Got rear ended last week. My model S did great. rear bumper for bent. BMW that hit us is toast.

 

[BlkGS]

Speaking of totaled... Got rear ended last week. My model S did great. rear bumper for bent. BMW that hit us is toast.

Reminds me.of the time my dad got rear ended in his sport Trac by a Mercedes gl (the big one at the time). His truck had a plastic bumper step that popped up a little bit, no clips broken or anything, just popped up. He just kinda pressed on it and it went back down. The merc on the other hand folded the entire front end in on itself. Literally radiator forward was crushed, hood, both fenders, both lights... crumple zone did its job, but theynwere going like maybe 10mph.

 

[Nakk]

Looks like those without enough capacity in their electrical panel will soon have an inexpensive means to install an EV charger...
Meter Collar

 

[tabbibus]

Looks like those without enough capacity in their electrical panel will soon have an inexpensive means to install an EV charger...
Meter Collar

That is interesting. That being said, I've used the charger as an excuse to justify a new panel on the last two houses I've lived at. Love me some fresh updated electrical panels!

 

[BlkGS]

Looks like those without enough capacity in their electrical panel will soon have an inexpensive means to install an EV charger...
Meter Collar

Interesting idea. I *think* the meter is actually.property of the utility company, so you'd need their approval to do it. If I was them, I wouldn't allow anyone other than my guys to work on or touch my meters. I suspect FPL would want the ability to remotely switch it off if they want to as well, they're doing that a lot with AC units and such to try to limit load when needed.

 

[DirtHokie]

Government subsidies are bad.

We currently have landfills full tires, now they want to add batteries to that list.

If the government is going to force fuel mileage standards on ICE, then they should force battery recycling standards for EV production.

 

[Nakk]

Government subsidies are bad.

We currently have landfills full tires, now they want to add batteries to that list.

If the government is going to force fuel mileage standards on ICE, then they should force battery recycling standards for EV production.

Agreed on the incentives for EVs, if that is what you're referencing.

You are operating under a false assumption that EV batteries will end up in landfills. First, EV batteries for the most part will outlast the car. When the car finally dies in 500,000 or 600,000 miles, the battery will be removed and used in large scale energy storage systems most likely. Damaged batteries, and batteries that finally fail, will of course be recycled--and there won't be any need for the government to mandate it. The minerals in batteries don't "wear out," and the batteries are far more valuable than the raw ore these minerals are derived from. Think about the effort and expense companies go to in obtaining the mineral components in Lithium batteries. Old EV batteries are a much, much richer and condensed source than ore. Most likely the batteries will be placed in a liquid nitrogen bath, and then shredded. After that standard metal recycling procedures will work just fine.

 

[DirtHokie]

Agreed on the incentives for EVs, if that is what you're referencing.

You are operating under a false assumption that EV batteries will end up in landfills. First, EV batteries for the most part will outlast the car. When the car finally dies in 500,000 or 600,000 miles, the battery will be removed and used in large scale energy storage systems most likely. Damaged batteries, and batteries that finally fail, will of course be recycled--and there won't be any need for the government to mandate it. The minerals in batteries don't "wear out," and the batteries are far more valuable than the raw ore these minerals are derived from. Think about the effort and expense companies go to in obtaining the mineral components in Lithium batteries. Old EV batteries are a much, much richer and condensed source than ore. Most likely the batteries will be placed in a liquid nitrogen bath, and then shredded. After that standard metal recycling procedures will work just fine.

You are assuming they wont? You are assuming that large scale energy storage projects will want to, or be capable of using old car batteries. Most plastic is recyclable, and most does not get recycled, its not cost effective. Household batteries are full of metals, they don't get recycled. Car starter batteries do, most of the time.... I don't see the trend towards cars lasting 500,000 as a normal thing. I see cars becoming more like cheap throw away appliances/ devices like cell phones. The recycling of EV batteries may very well work out, and be both environmentally and commercial viable, but that's usually when the government steps in and screws it up.

 

[Nakk]

You are assuming they wont? You are assuming that large scale energy storage projects will want to, or be capable of using old car batteries.

I'm not assuming anything, tesla has already announced plans do to just this.

Most plastic is recyclable, and most does not get recycled, its not cost effective. Household batteries are full of metals, they don't get recycled.

EV batteries are not the same as plastic. You might want to do some reading on the minerals contained in EV batteries and just how rare and valuable they are. Here's a great read; you should read it all the way through. Minerals in EV batteries

I don't see the trend towards cars lasting 500,000 as a normal thing. I see cars becoming more like cheap throw away appliances/ devices like cell phones.

That is certainly the trend among legacy automakers. For instance, the automatic transmissions in at least several Nissans actually had transmission fluid heaters. This was clearly--IMHO--designed to cause the transmission to fail shortly after the warranty expired. The Nissan Rogue suffered a recall due to this. EVs are not immune to this either. One well known EVbulit by a legacy automaker was shown by Sandy Munro to have a thermal system designed with multiple dozens of coolant hoses--all with substandard connectors. and clamps. The cost to repair this EV once those hoses start failing will likely be prohibitive--especially as many of them will require removing the battery to R&R. The solution of course is to buy cars where the design intent is for the car to last.

The recycling of EV batteries may very well work out, and be both environmentally and commercial viable, but that's usually when the government steps in and screws it up.

I can't argue with that. Hopefully the government stays out of this.