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Batteries <electric vehicle battery>

BlkGS

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Counter point... ICE sales are only falling because build priority is being given to EVs, and ICE vehicles aren't being given the chips needed to produce them. Most automakers still qualify for a big government bribe, and people have thebattitude of "if I don't like an EV I can sell it and make a profit". It's not the free market at work, it's automakers prioritizing one supply chain over the other. It's not like ICE has dropped at all - the wait list at our local dealer for a new 911 is over 2 years long. People are paying 10k over sticker or more for a freaking Kia Telluride. All the auto makers are also trying to supress supply because they're making more money ey by selling less vehicles. Frankly, in different times, this sort of behavior would be seen as price fixing and would be investigated as anti trust violations. Lucky for us, our whole government is so corrupt with industry money and influence we needn't worry about that happening.

I think you're really underestimating how big of a factor price is. It's like, the #1 criteria for most buyers. Past that, how is the EV better? Torque? My wife doesn't care about that. Acceleration? She doesn't care about that either. Never going to a gas station? We get gas at Sam's club and we go there weekly, so no benefit there. We've already established an electric powertrain isn't really driving reliability for most vehicles. So what's the perk for a pretty typical family like us? Even barring the range issues.
 

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Not saying that, just that long term EVs won't be a 100% switch... probably not even a 50% switch. I could see the EV market capping at like 30% to 40% of the total market.
NEVER said it would be 100%, in fact repeatedly said it doesn't fit every use case. I'd say we'll hit 60-70% market penetration over the next 10 years. The only reasons not to switch to an EV are:
  1. Cost - which is coming down as the manufacturers switch over their production lines to more EVs. The cheapest model is down to 27k (with a 7500 tax credit on top of that), still higher than ICE comparables, but the gap is closing all the time.
  2. Charging time - which is coming down every year. I suspect this will combine with range improvements - meaning, if a car has a 500 mile range and you can do an 80% quick charge that might suffice for road trips.
  3. Towing - this will remain a challenge. I suspect PHEV trucks might be the focal point. Possibly diesel electric PHEVs (like trains) will work best in this niche.
  4. Range- this is mostly solved already for most urban drivers, but they'll continue to compete on range and charging improvements
  5. Charging Availability: this is still a gap, but is a massive focus for all the petroleum companies. Most home owners will put in their own charger.

We've already established an electric powertrain isn't really driving reliability for most vehicles.
What are you talking about here? EVs have a massive advantage from a maintenance perspective over ICE vehicles. There is an order of magnitude fewer moving parts in EV vs ICE (20 vs 2000). This not only impacts maintenance, but reliability too. If you told me techonolgy A had 100x fewer moving parts than the current tech in any application, and that it provides comparable or better performance/reliability etc, I'd say - well thats a no brainer in terms of a conversion.
 

fatboyroy

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Counter point... ICE sales are only falling because build priority is being given to EVs, and ICE vehicles aren't being given the chips needed to produce them. Most automakers still qualify for a big government bribe, and people have thebattitude of "if I don't like an EV I can sell it and make a profit". It's not the free market at work, it's automakers prioritizing one supply chain over the other. It's not like ICE has dropped at all - the wait list at our local dealer for a new 911 is over 2 years long. People are paying 10k over sticker or more for a freaking Kia Telluride. All the auto makers are also trying to supress supply because they're making more money ey by selling less vehicles. Frankly, in different times, this sort of behavior would be seen as price fixing and would be investigated as anti trust violations. Lucky for us, our whole government is so corrupt with industry money and influence we needn't worry about that happening.

I think you're really underestimating how big of a factor price is. It's like, the #1 criteria for most buyers. Past that, how is the EV better? Torque? My wife doesn't care about that. Acceleration? She doesn't care about that either. Never going to a gas station? We get gas at Sam's club and we go there weekly, so no benefit there. We've already established an electric powertrain isn't really driving reliability for most vehicles. So what's the perk for a pretty typical family like us? Even barring the range issues.
if you buy a tesla you dont get 10K over sticker, you pay listed price (tesla owners correct me if im wrong). Dealer is what charge it, tesla refused setting up traditional dealer and is a great model I would think. Other manufacturer EV or not you will get overhead price cause of the crook dealership.
 

djetok

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I'm curious where you get this information. Most studies show that the average miles driven by Americans per day is around 25 miles/day. Since most new electric cars now have a range of >150 miles, this is plenty for the vast majority of Americans. Plently of EVs have >200 miles range, and some (more all the time) have >300. Sure, this won't cover every driving scenario, but is probably covers 80% of Americans.

Regarding your towing comment - towing with an EV wouldn't be useless for all of us. Frankly I'll bet that many people towing their boat tow less than 100 miles round trip to their ramp. This is perfectly doable for most truck being built.

Chevy just announced the latest EV - The Chevy Blazer. The SS model will have 0-60 in <4 seconds and a range of over 300 miles. I went to reserve one, and all their reservations are filled (less than 10 days from annoucement).

Now back to my search for battery recommendations for my boat!
I have been doing tons of research on this lately. I drive 60 miles per day to work and back. By my calculations, it works out for me, but I would have to hit a supercharger greater than the 50 amp a couple times a week. I mean you could have a level 3 charger installed at your home, but most homes would have to upgrade their service to the house to support a supercharger. A level 2 charger still takes 4 to 5 hours on a 230 mile F150 to charge from 15 to 80 %. When the 320 mile f150's are more readily available it will charge quicker because it has 2 chargers built in. We even went in to drive the BMW I4 m50 for the wife and ended up getting another dino powered BMW for her.
 

BlkGS

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NEVER said it would be 100%, in fact repeatedly said it doesn't fit every use case. I'd say we'll hit 60-70% market penetration over the next 10 years. The only reasons not to switch to an EV are:
  1. Cost - which is coming down as the manufacturers switch over their production lines to more EVs. The cheapest model is down to 27k (with a 7500 tax credit on top of that), still higher than ICE comparables, but the gap is closing all the time.
  2. Charging time - which is coming down every year. I suspect this will combine with range improvements - meaning, if a car has a 500 mile range and you can do an 80% quick charge that might suffice for road trips.
  3. Towing - this will remain a challenge. I suspect PHEV trucks might be the focal point. Possibly diesel electric PHEVs (like trains) will work best in this niche.
  4. Range- this is mostly solved already for most urban drivers, but they'll continue to compete on range and charging improvements
  5. Charging Availability: this is still a gap, but is a massive focus for all the petroleum companies. Most home owners will put in their own charger.


What are you talking about here? EVs have a massive advantage from a maintenance perspective over ICE vehicles. There is an order of magnitude fewer moving parts in EV vs ICE (20 vs 2000). This not only impacts maintenance, but reliability too. If you told me techonolgy A had 100x fewer moving parts than the current tech in any application, and that it provides comparable or better performance/reliability etc, I'd say - well thats a no brainer in terms of a conversion.
Moving parts aren't what drives failures anymore. Most of the time what takes a vehicle.off the road now is either an electronic component, or a system still existing in an EV. You dont see engines that need rebuilt often anymore, you see BCMs that had a capacitor fail or climate control units that bricked themselves now. Engines and transmissions past a VERY long time now due to modern development and design methods. That's a big part of the reason the average car age keeps dragging out... the cars are lasting that long.

While there may be an advantage as the time on thenroad heads towards infinity, in the practical.world where a 20 year old car gets replaced if anything goes wrong, an EV has no advantage there. If anything, the additional electronic components are likely to present more opportunities for issues.
 

BlkGS

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if you buy a tesla you dont get 10K over sticker, you pay listed price (tesla owners correct me if im wrong). Dealer is what charge it, tesla refused setting up traditional dealer and is a great model I would think. Other manufacturer EV or not you will get overhead price cause of the crook dealership.
This is a valid point, and frankly, probably a big part of their current success. They were granted immunity from state laws by virtue of money and influence, and it really.is paying dividends for them.in these times of supply constraint. If the Kia dealer wants to charge you 70k for a Telluride that should be 50k, outside of the worse interior and such, I can totally.understand buying a more expensive car at msrp vs paying some dealer's overcharging.
 

Nakk

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Counter point... ICE sales are only falling because build priority is being given to EVs, and ICE vehicles aren't being given the chips needed to produce them.
Tesla sells more EVs than everyone else put together. There is no federal credit to buy a Tesla. Tesla doesn't shift priorities to EVs because they don't sell ICE. Frankly, everyone else is still playing catch up to Tesla.

I think you're really underestimating how big of a factor price is. It's like, the #1 criteria for most buyers.
No, I agree that up front cost is the single biggest hurdle EV makers must overcome. Cost over five years is basically on parity with ICE cars like a Honda Accord, and over 10 years a good EV is cheaper than the cheapest economy car. However, that doesn't change the fact that not everyone can suck up the initial purchase price to take advantage of the cheaper overall cost of an EV.

Past that, how is the EV better? Torque? My wife doesn't care about that. Acceleration? She doesn't care about that either. Never going to a gas station? We get gas at Sam's club and we go there weekly, so no benefit there. We've already established an electric powertrain isn't really driving reliability for most vehicles. So what's the perk for a pretty typical family like us? Even barring the range issues.
You have a couple of misconceptions here, because you have never owned an EV. I've already mentioned these, but you asked, so:

The annoyance of filling up with gas is a pain that you have learned to live with, because you had to. Once you're free of that it's like a weight being lifted off of your shoulders. When you go to Sam's club you have to spend time filling up. If there is a line, like there always is at our Costco, you have to wait in line. You're in the tiny minority if you don't have to sometimes fill up before you can go somewhere. With an EV, you only spend time charging on long trips. Other than that, you spend a couple of seconds plugging in after parking at home. That's it. your car is always ready to go. You say it's no big deal because you don't know any better. Three years ago I agreed with you. Today I still revel when driving past Costco, or starting a trip across town without worrying about whether or not I need gas.

Speaking of gas, how much do you pay to fill up? My truck costs me damn near $200 these days. If I were foolish enough to drive my blazer on my four or five times a eek drive to the Columbia River Gorge I'd be spending about $230/week just to go kiteboarding! Ouch! Instead I spend about $5 driving my Performance Model Y. yes I know that's a lot, but it's a windy road and I drive it pretty hard. Oh, and it does cost me a few cents to keep the car cold all day, but that's a great investment when my expensive kites don't have to degrade in the heat. A $10,000 quiver of kites is worth taking care of, don't you think? Another way I save money with an EV.

When it's hot out is your car hot inside after coming out of the store? Mine isn't. When it's frigid out, is your car cold inside when you finish an errand? Mine isn't. After spending a day on the river in 100 degree heat, my car is nice and cool after lugging my gear up from my slip. I'll even admit if it's really hot out I turn the temp in my car down to 63 degrees 15 minutes or so before I get back to it. It's so pleasant after hoofing it in the heat to get into a cold car! If you have a dog, you can actually leave your dog in the car when you're in the store because the car stays cool and comfortable.

The driving experience in an EV is just better. My wife didn't care about acceleration or torque either. But she does love how effortless it is to drive an EV. There is no transmission, so it's always in the right gear. Just push a little on the right peddle and you go faster, smooth as silk. You want to go slower just lift your foot a little of the right peddle. You almost never touch the brake peddle. Admittedly, it does take a drive or two to get used to one pedal driving, but then you wonder how you ever lived without it. Merging, passing, accident avoidance, an EV does these things effortlessly. An EV usually has a near perfect 50-50 weight balance. This also just makes driving it more enjoyable. It just feels better. Why is there a long wait list for a 911? Because it's a sublime driving experience. An EV is a better driving experience yet. (Except at track day.) You may say you don't care, but once you experience it, it would be hard to go back. It's just way more pleasant to drive an EV.

Speaking of driving, It's so nice to let the car drive while I eat a sandwich or open a pop. Or when I'm stuck in traffic. Or when it gets tedious on long freeway drives.

Yes, we've established that EVs are insanely more reliable than ICE rigs. Far fewer moving parts means far fewer failures. Coolant changes? Not required--ever--in my car. I might have to do the brakes after 200,000 or 300,000 miles because I drive harder than most. My wife's brakes will probably go 500,000 miles. That'll be after I'm gone from this world. It's nice to know that I will NEVER have to do another brake job. OK, one more on my Y if I'm still up to such things in that many years. How about switches? I've restored a lot of cars, switches are a big failure point and hard to find once the car is 10 years old. Count up the switches in your car. Mine has nine. Since Tesla uses the same switches as much as possible across all platforms, I should be able to easily replace these switches 30 years from now. Of course, 99% of ICE vehicles sold today will be junk long before most of the switches fail... Yes, you can keep an ICE rig running for a long time--with a lot of maintenance and a lot of work over the years. Or, you can just drive an EV.
 

Nakk

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Moving parts aren't what drives failures anymore. Most of the time what takes a vehicle.off the road now is either an electronic component, or a system still existing in an EV. You dont see engines that need rebuilt often anymore, you see BCMs that had a capacitor fail or climate control units that bricked themselves now. Engines and transmissions past a VERY long time now due to modern development and design methods. That's a big part of the reason the average car age keeps dragging out... the cars are lasting that long.

While there may be an advantage as the time on thenroad heads towards infinity, in the practical.world where a 20 year old car gets replaced if anything goes wrong, an EV has no advantage there. If anything, the additional electronic components are likely to present more opportunities for issues.
Sorry, but incorrect. Transmissions fail rather regularly after 100,000 miles--or less. How do you think transmission shops make money? Engines last as well, unless a seal goes bad or someone is lack on oil changes or it overheats or a valve goes bad, or... The local auto repair shop guy is booked out months in advance because of engine and transmission failures. Yes, electronic failures are an issue, but you are mistaken that EVs have more than ICE rigs. Please watch the excellent Sandy Munro tear down videos. My Model Y has 25% of the chips of a typical ICE rig, newer Teslas have even fewer. That's one of the reasons Tesla production was affected far less by the chip shortage as opposed to ICE production. So you're partly right; the extra electronic components in an ICE rig will cause even more reliability issues.
 

Julian

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Speaking of driving, It's so nice to let the car drive while I eat a sandwich or open a pop. Or when I'm stuck in traffic. Or when it gets tedious on long freeway drives.
This isn't a feature only EVs have....but yes, Tesla's self drive is probably the front runner. I LOVE letting my Audi do (most) of the driving on long drives. Yes I will take over when I want to, but it makes a long drive so much nicer. I arrive WAY less tired!

Oil, transmission, coolant changes/flushes....can't wait for all that crap to be behind me! I was swamped with work last month and my wife took the Audi to the Stealership for an oil change.....$225!!!!! DAMN.

I'm not likely to give up both my cars anytime soon, especially because I need to tow the boat. But if I didn't have the boat, I could easily see my wife and I only having one EV car, and relying on a car on demand auto drive service if we ever needed to both be out in different directions (which happens less and less).
 

Nakk

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I have been doing tons of research on this lately. I drive 60 miles per day to work and back. By my calculations, it works out for me, but I would have to hit a supercharger greater than the 50 amp a couple times a week. I mean you could have a level 3 charger installed at your home, but most homes would have to upgrade their service to the house to support a supercharger. A level 2 charger still takes 4 to 5 hours on a 230 mile F150 to charge from 15 to 80 %. When the 320 mile f150's are more readily available it will charge quicker because it has 2 chargers built in. We even went in to drive the BMW I4 m50 for the wife and ended up getting another dino powered BMW for her.
You're operating under a few misconceptions. First, nobody but a billionaire is going to install a level 3 charger at their home, the cost is prohibitive for private use. Second, although I wouldn't recommend it your use case would work with just a 120v wall plug for a charger. Figure a 5 mph charging rate charging overnight should get you 60 miles of added range. Most electrical panels in homes built in the last 40 years can easily handle another 40 amp 220V circuit, which is all anyone would ever need to charge a couple of EVs. I agree, I would never buy an I4... Ugh!
 

djetok

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You're operating under a few misconceptions. First, nobody but a billionaire is going to install a level 3 charger at their home, the cost is prohibitive for private use. Second, although I wouldn't recommend it your use case would work with just a 120v wall plug for a charger. Figure a 5 mph charging rate charging overnight should get you 60 miles of added range. Most electrical panels in homes built in the last 40 years can easily handle another 40 amp 220V circuit, which is all anyone would ever need to charge a couple of EVs. I agree, I would never buy an I4... Ugh!
I agree on the level 3 . That is why I pointed out upgrading service to the home. 4 to 5 k just for the upgrade, not including the charger itself. My figures where based off a level 2 charger at the house in the garage and also at my business.

Well, I ordered one. I was not a fan of the model 3. We looked at some used ones and the build quality on the 3 cars we drove was not up to the build of the I4. I have a BMW dealership a couple miles from my home and Tesla has a service center only and its very small.
 
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Nakk

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This isn't a feature only EVs have....but yes, Tesla's self drive is probably the front runner. I LOVE letting my Audi do (most) of the driving on long drives. Yes I will take over when I want to, but it makes a long drive so much nicer. I arrive WAY less tired!
True.

Oil, transmission, coolant changes/flushes....can't wait for all that crap to be behind me! I was swamped with work last month and my wife took the Audi to the Stealership for an oil change.....$225!!!!! DAMN.
Absolutely!!! I do all of my own work, and my work load maintaining cars is now a fraction--a small fraction--of what it was before getting two Teslas.

I'm not likely to give up both my cars anytime soon, especially because I need to tow the boat. But if I didn't have the boat, I could easily see my wife and I only having one EV car, and relying on a car on demand auto drive service if we ever needed to both be out in different directions (which happens less and less).
Yep, if you tow, most folks will still need an ICE rig. My '92 Blazer is not going anywhere in the foreseeable future. And as it's getting less than 1000 miles a year on it, I'll likely never need to replace it. The Blazer still needs oil changes and coolant changes though, just because of time.

We thought of just getting one EV, but it became a fight who got stuck driving the ICE. Plus all of the maintenance... The best thing we ever did was go all in on EVs. We're saving over $4,000/year just on gas!
 

BlkGS

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Sorry, but incorrect. Transmissions fail rather regularly after 100,000 miles--or less. How do you think transmission shops make money? Engines last as well, unless a seal goes bad or someone is lack on oil changes or it overheats or a valve goes bad, or... The local auto repair shop guy is booked out months in advance because of engine and transmission failures. Yes, electronic failures are an issue, but you are mistaken that EVs have more than ICE rigs. Please watch the excellent Sandy Munro tear down videos. My Model Y has 25% of the chips of a typical ICE rig, newer Teslas have even fewer. That's one of the reasons Tesla production was affected far less by the chip shortage as opposed to ICE production. So you're partly right; the extra electronic components in an ICE rig will cause even more reliability issues.
There's like, hardly any transmissions shops around anymore. Just about everyone is using the zf 8 speed in anything of decent size which appears to be all but indestructible. Maybe transverse transmissions are more problematic, or ones in economy cars, but you don't really see modern vehicles of decent size and cost getting a transmission replaced.

All our auto shops are booked out for months doing suspension work, because vehicles are getting heavier and heavier, and putting cheaper parts in suspensions is easy because if something breaks you can blame potholes. Again, not something that an EV is immune to.

I'd have a very hard time believing that an EV uses less electronics than an ICE. They'd have the same basic control modules, the PCM in an ICE would be just for motors in an EV, and the EV would have a charge controller and battery thermal controller. Maybe they've got a more optimized design for those modules, but thenreality is that interior features and things like that are the stuff that goes wrong nowadays, and is electronic in nature.
 

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I agree on the level 3 . That is why I pointed out upgrading service to the home. 4 to 5 k just for the upgrade, not including the charger itself. My figures where based off a level 2 charger at the house in the garage and also at my business.
Ahh, gotcha. The few hours of charging time aren't an issue though, that all happens when you're off doing something else. The way I see it, I spend well less than a minute a week charging. That's my time investment in the procedure.
 

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Self driving... that's a big turn off for me. Personally, I think it should be outlawed until laws are rewritten such that the automated vehicle is ALWAYS at fault, and the company that created the autonomous vehicle is liable for all damages. Right now, technically the driver is supposed to be in control of the vehicle.per laws. So if im.the driver but I'm not driving who is liable? If I'm in the backseat with the wife while the car drives itself into a church bus, whose at fault? If I'm taking a nap while the car doesn't take evasive action and I get side swiped, whose fault.is it?

I think until laws exist to clear up those sorts of situations, and frankly the only reasonable way is for the manufacturer of the autonomous vehicle to be fully liable, the tech should be banned and only driver aid systems should be allowed.

I'd be curious to see how insurance reacts to accidents when these autonomous systems are involved. I suspect they'd deny your claim the second you told them you were napping when the incident happened and the car was driving itself.
 

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There's like, hardly any transmissions shops around anymore. Just about everyone is using the zf 8 speed in anything of decent size which appears to be all but indestructible. Maybe transverse transmissions are more problematic, or ones in economy cars, but you don't really see modern vehicles of decent size and cost getting a transmission replaced.

All our auto shops are booked out for months doing suspension work, because vehicles are getting heavier and heavier, and putting cheaper parts in suspensions is easy because if something breaks you can blame potholes. Again, not something that an EV is immune to.

I'd have a very hard time believing that an EV uses less electronics than an ICE. They'd have the same basic control modules, the PCM in an ICE would be just for motors in an EV, and the EV would have a charge controller and battery thermal controller. Maybe they've got a more optimized design for those modules, but thenreality is that interior features and things like that are the stuff that goes wrong nowadays, and is electronic in nature.
No transmission is more reliable than a good transmission. That is a simple fact. A Tesla will never, ever, have a transmission failure. You can not accurately say that about any car that incorporates a transmission.

Agreed on suspension work. That's one of the reasons I like Teslas over other EVs--higher quality suspension parts and far fewer frame parts.

Watch the video. Munro strips cars down to the nuts and bolts. They counted the chips. You can believe it or not, but I don't see Munro lying when he is selling reports to automakers for $50K and $80K. EVs are simpler, so they require fewer controls. That's a simple fact. Of course not all of the fewer chip count is attributable to the basic nature of an EV. Tesla is the acknowledged world leader in simplifying production and assembly.
 

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Self driving... that's a big turn off for me. Personally, I think it should be outlawed until laws are rewritten such that the automated vehicle is ALWAYS at fault, and the company that created the autonomous vehicle is liable for all damages. Right now, technically the driver is supposed to be in control of the vehicle.per laws. So if im.the driver but I'm not driving who is liable? If I'm in the backseat with the wife while the car drives itself into a church bus, whose at fault? If I'm taking a nap while the car doesn't take evasive action and I get side swiped, whose fault.is it?

I think until laws exist to clear up those sorts of situations, and frankly the only reasonable way is for the manufacturer of the autonomous vehicle to be fully liable, the tech should be banned and only driver aid systems should be allowed.

I'd be curious to see how insurance reacts to accidents when these autonomous systems are involved. I suspect they'd deny your claim the second you told them you were napping when the incident happened and the car was driving itself.
You're operating under a misconception. Nobody is selling autonomous vehicles to consumers right now. While Tesla's Autopilot may become L3 or better, it is currently L2--constant driver monitoring required. Any accident in ANY consumer vehicle is legally and factually the fault of the driver. That said, the fact is that while there are accidents, the accident rate for a Tesla with autopilot engaged is a small fraction of the overall accident rate. That's why I pay less insuring my expensive Tesla's with USAA than I paid for my Nissan's which cost less than half as much.

You are correct in that the law will have to catch up once L3 or better autonomous vehicles are available.
 

BlkGS

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No transmission is more reliable than a good transmission. That is a simple fact. A Tesla will never, ever, have a transmission failure. You can not accurately say that about any car that incorporates a transmission.

Agreed on suspension work. That's one of the reasons I like Teslas over other EVs--higher quality suspension parts and far fewer frame parts.

Watch the video. Munro strips cars down to the nuts and bolts. They counted the chips. You can believe it or not, but I don't see Munro lying when he is selling reports to automakers for $50K and $80K. EVs are simpler, so they require fewer controls. That's a simple fact. Of course not all of the fewer chip count is attributable to the basic nature of an EV. Tesla is the acknowledged world leader in simplifying production and assembly.
Only when taken to infinity. If you consider the lifespan as "until the car gets totalled by being t boned by a teenage girl watching tik toks and not paying attention" a good transmission can be equivalent to no transmission. If you were able to drive it forever, sure, but reality is, most cars get scrapped due to an accident, or a BER repair to something. Many years ago, I had a buddy who scrapped his car because his AC went out, and it was R12. To convert the car to r134 was going to cost more than the car was worth, so he sold it to a junkyard because nobody would buy it with no AC in FL. It was fine other than the AC.
 

BlkGS

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You're operating under a misconception. Nobody is selling autonomous vehicles to consumers right now. While Tesla's Autopilot may become L3 or better, it is currently L2--constant driver monitoring required. Any accident in ANY consumer vehicle is legally and factually the fault of the driver. That said, the fact is that while there are accidents, the accident rate for a Tesla with autopilot engaged is a small fraction of the overall accident rate. That's why I pay less insuring my expensive Tesla's with USAA than I paid for my Nissan's which cost less than half as much.

You are correct in that the law will have to catch up once L3 or better autonomous vehicles are available.
GM Supercruise allows you to not have hands on the wheel. I believe that's the same for tesla's equivalent. The second you allow someone to not have to have hands on the wheel and/or don't track to make sure they're actually paying attention, you can call it whatever level you want, people will treat it as an auto pilot that they set and don't worry about. There have been several notable instances of this already.
 

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Only when taken to infinity. If you consider the lifespan as "until the car gets totalled by being t boned by a teenage girl watching tik toks and not paying attention" a good transmission can be equivalent to no transmission. If you were able to drive it forever, sure, but reality is, most cars get scrapped due to an accident, or a BER repair to something. Many years ago, I had a buddy who scrapped his car because his AC went out, and it was R12. To convert the car to r134 was going to cost more than the car was worth, so he sold it to a junkyard because nobody would buy it with no AC in FL. It was fine other than the AC.
Hmmmmm.
Transmission Recall
Another
Trans Failures

Aamco still seems to be in business, weird since transmissions never fail, right?
AAMCO

Seriously, I could make this reply pages and pages long. transmissions and engines still fail, and many, many cars are in the junk yard because of it. That's a fact.
 
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