Batteries <electric vehicle battery>

[Julian]

The Grid has plenty of capacity to handle EVs today. Most people set their chargers to charge their cars only in the middle of the night when the rates per KW are lowest....why are they lowest at night - because that is when their demand is lowest.

China is investing massively in both renewable power generation and EVs. They realize - like many in the US - that EVs translate power to motion at an 80% efficiency rate while ICE does it at like 40-50% efficiency. That alone is flat out simple to understand. Forget the emissions and assume each vehicle produces the same emmisions per KW of power consumed - the EV will produce less simply because it is far better at using power. All those moving parts in an ICE cost it in efficiency - and also cost it in maintenance.

No one is shoving and EV down my throat. I couldn't care less about the emissions. I'll pay less to get around. Never have to worry about going to a gas station ever again. I'll pay less in maintenance. And if I decide to....I'll buy a performance model that will blow most ICE cars off the road. Its appealing to me.

I may follow that up with a solar array on my house that eliminates my electic bill - the same way my neighbor has. His ROI was 6.5 years. Mine will be longer unfortunately as I have too many damn trees and I'm further into the ravine than him.

 

[Beachbummer]

From a purely economical perspective, EVs just work. You don't have to like them, you can even hate them. It's too late to stop them, they are here to stay. Cheaper to operate, amazing torque, and getting cheaper every year.

There's plenty of Oil left, and the next invention that will change how we deal with energy is the light cheap battery. We don't have one yet to rival the storage power of fuel, but the incentives to create it are there. That will be the next evolution of energy.

Currently solar and wind are economically competitive, but you can't have them on demand. Cheap battery capacity would change that. It's coming.

 

[Mesa50]

You left this on the boat - Joylife Metallic Bucket Hat Trendy Fisherman Hats Unisex Reversible Packable Cap, Silver at Amazon Women’s Clothing store

I only repeated the WEF’s stated agendas. None of the above are my ideas. They are the openly stated goals of the people paying your favorite politicians off. In true big tech fashion, YouTube, Twitter, Facebook etc have deleted all the videos of the WEF stating “In the future, you’ll own nothing, and be happy”. However, the stated goals of these billionaire leftists, is openly stated regarding taking away your personal vehicles.

"The Timcast Channel" World Economic Forum Deletes Video On The Great Reset That Says "You'll Own NOTHING" After Backlash (TV Episode 2020) | News

World Economic Forum Deletes Video On The Great Reset That Says "You'll Own NOTHING" After Backlash: Directed by Tim Pool. With Tim Pool.

m.imdb.com

Report: World Economic Forum calls for the end of "personal" vehicle ownership

World Economic Forum calls for the end of "personal" vehicle ownership, replace it with "communal sharing" of cars in an effort to mitigate climate change

www.lawenforcementtoday.com

 

[Beachbummer]

Yeah, don't confuse currently available EVs with communist trying to take your car away. Different topic altogether.

 

[Bluewater272]

Once you realize that the environment means absolutely nothing to the organizations, and politicians pushing EV’s down everyone’s throat, you’ll be able to see what they really want to achieve by forcing you to switch. The World Economic Forum is a powerful lobbying force, aka political pocket liner for a certain political party. They have stated several times what their ultimate goal is, and you’d be stupid to think they don’t really mean it. They are communists at heart, and have promised to make you their slaves. They want to initially get you to drive (not very far) electric vehicles. Then make your home charging station on a separate meter. “Sorry you’ve driven too much this week already”. “No car or A/C for the weekend”. And this week they stated their ultimate goal, which is no private transportation allowed at all. Zero vehicles for their slaves. First it’s vehicles, and then they’ll push for no private property at all. Remember these are the political party pocket liners who have said…. “In the future you’ll own nothing, and be happy”. “Everything you own will be rented”. The earth will never be clean enough, and you will never be green enough, because they don’t care one bit about the environment. They only care about creating a ruling class, and a servant class, while using the false notion of environmental protection as the tool. If that’s the type of control you want to be subservient to, go ahead. Drive what your masters tell you to. They aren’t planning on stopping at just making you drive golf carts.

...cmon man, this is like HBO-grade satire, right?

 

[Mesa50]

Yeah, don't confuse currently available EVs with communist trying to take your car away. Different topic altogether.

Not really. Not when their first agenda was putting everyone into an EV, which forces everyone into centralized living areas due to limited range. EV’s are only possible for city, and densely populated urban dwellers. And they aren’t really green at all, unless you live somewhere where your energy is supplied by hydro electric power, wind, or solar. I’m not opposed to anyone owning an EV that wants one, but you can’t mandate leaps in technology without creating a disaster.

...cmon man, this is like HBO-grade satire, right?

No, but you’ve reduced it to junior high levels of making jokes, and calling names when you have no ability to come up with a legitimate rebuttal.
(GM executive admits their electric vehicles will be fueled by coal.)

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

 

[adrianp89]

This is such a weak argument. For one, competition and corporate greed is pushing range of vehicles higher and higher. Secondly, the median range of gas powered vehicles is 403 miles (US: Median Range Of 2021 Gasoline Vehicles Is 72% Higher Than BEVs) While currently the median of EVs is lower, there are already EVs that surpass the 400 mile range, and most new ones sit in the mid 300s. (https://www.kbb.com/best-cars/top-10-longest-range-electric-cars/) Horse and Carriage people said there would never be a gas station at every corner. We saw how that worked out. Chargers will eventually be everywhere, and charging speed will continue to increase.

Environmental factors can be argued in either direction. I fully agree there should not be mandates. I think the market should handle this alone. EVs are a far superior vehicle hands down. (Coming from a guy that owned a Tesla and now owns a 4XE, and also owns a gas truck)

 

[Bluewater272]

which forces everyone into centralized living areas due to limited range. EV’s are only possible for city, and densely populated urban dwellers.

Hilarious. The average EV these days has 250mi of range, if you have a little more coin to spend, 350+. How often do you think people drive more than 250 miles a day for personal use (just so you don't come back with how is a tractor trailer going to get from CA to NY with a battery)? How often do you have to refuel? Bet its less than once a day.

 

[BlkGS]

I still maintain that ele tric motors are great, but large batteries are stupid. PHEV or range extended EVs truly are what makes sense. Unfortunately, the big money guys that are pushing policies and public opinion aren't on that page, probably because they make more money because they've invested that way, possibly more control, probably because it's an easier sell to the types that just crave new.

All I know is if there was a bit more sense and 1/4 the money being funneled into BEVs into PHEVs or range extended BEVs, we would be WAY further ahead. Imagine if every tahoe, f150, etc came with a small battery and electric motor setup that could give itn40 miles of range per charge, and the main engine could recharge the battery. People could truly have their cake and eat it too.

I suspect FCAlantis is gonna do this with their turbo I6 setup. A Wagoneer L with 40 miles or so of battery range would truly become the ideal family vehicle.

 

[BlkGS]

Hilarious. The average EV these days has 250mi of range, if you have a little more coin to spend, 350+. How often do you think people drive more than 250 miles a day for personal use (just so you don't come back with how is a tractor trailer going to get from CA to NY with a battery)? How often do you have to refuel? Bet its less than once a day.

People who tow or go on long trips would disagree. People who tow on long trips better have a LOT of spare time in their trip.

 

[adrianp89]

People who tow or go on long trips would disagree. People who tow on long trips better have a LOT of spare time in their trip.

Yes - but they are far and few between. Even then people who tow are more than likely 2-3 car households.

 

[Mesa50]

Hilarious. The average EV these days has 250mi of range, if you have a little more coin to spend, 350+. How often do you think people drive more than 250 miles a day for personal use (just so you don't come back with how is a tractor trailer going to get from CA to NY with a battery)? How often do you have to refuel? Bet its less than once a day.

I drive between 40,000 and 50,000 miles per year for work in my own vehicle. Some days it’s only about 120 miles, some days I have to fill up mid day. Today I started at 8:00am. It’s currently 11:05 and I’ve already driven 214 miles. These miles have been up and down mountain roads with elevation changes between 600 feet and 2,200 feet, with approximately 200 lbs of weight in the trunk and myself at 180 lbs. With these driving conditions, along with requiring max A/C, I’d be lucky to get half the listed range of an EV.

 

[BlkGS]

Yes - but they are far and few between. Even then people who tow are more than likely 2-3 car households.

I dissgree that people whongo on long trips are few and far between, but people whontow long distance are a niche. We could.probably quantify it, and insuspect the rv segment is not huge, but neither is thenelectric car market. That said, if there had been a PHEV Expedition, Durango, Wagoneer, etc, we would have bought it, because it would allow for ultimate flexibility and presumably save some money on gas.

Maybe it's just me, but I would say your tow vehicle is also your family vehicle. I'm not gonna tow my boat for vacation with a regular cab truck and have my family drive separately, that'd be silly. So having your family vehicle be a regular ass BEV makes no sense. A PHEV, on the other hand, would make a lot.of sense.

I still maintain that pure battery electric cars make virtually no sense outside of certain limited applications. Electric motors make a ton of sense, and battery cars with a short range but an ICE generator backup make the most sense. At present we could be making 3 to 5 cars with a small battery but an ICE range extender for every 1 full BEV we make now, and that'd drive major market penetration quickly and inexpensively.

 

[adrianp89]

I drive between 40,000 and 50,000 miles per year for work in my own vehicle. Some days it’s only about 120 miles, some days I have to fill up mid day. Today I started at 8:00am. It’s currently 11:05 and I’ve already driven 214 miles. These miles have been up and down mountain roads with elevation changes between 600 feet and 2,200 feet, with approximately 200 lbs of weight in the trunk and myself at 180 lbs. With these driving conditions, along with requiring max A/C, I’d be lucky to get half the listed range of an EV.

Again - you are in a rare minority. Average use is around 14k a year. Pure EV currently does not fit your needs.

 

[fatboyroy]

THe problem I see with EV for average citizen is the upfront cost to purchase a new one. Used market is bad too, I've seen news about purchasing old ev and the battery crapped out and dealer charging them 21K to replace. EV is a 10yr car (battery life, my best guess) thus tesla put 8 year warranty, unless they reduce the replacement battery price significantly, just not fair to force normal people to change car every 10 year. Im not against EV at all, just need more planning/improvement to make it available to our average citizen.

 

[adrianp89]

THe problem I see with EV for average citizen is the upfront cost to purchase a new one. Used market is bad too, I've seen news about purchasing old ev and the battery crapped out and dealer charging them 21K to replace. EV is a 10yr car (battery life, my best guess) thus tesla put 8 year warranty, unless they reduce the replacement battery price significantly, just not fair to force normal people to change car every 10 year. Im not against EV at all, just need more planning/improvement to make it available to our average citizen.

This is definitely a hurdle to overcome, especially as people are holding onto cars longer than ever before. As battery tech improves, life and cost of replacement should be driven down. I would say under 10k is fair for a full battery replacement. That is in line with a engine replacement/rebuild.

 

[BlkGS]

This is definitely a hurdle to overcome, especially as people are holding onto cars longer than ever before. As battery tech improves, life and cost of replacement should be driven down. I would say under 10k is fair for a full battery replacement. That is in line with a engine replacement/rebuild.

Except engines last 30 plus years. My 92 corvette runs as strong today with 140k miles on it as it did when it rolled off the line. No wear, no expectation of end of life... it's gonna run until the car gets scrapped. There's plenty of original 80s or old engines that run like Champs too, and engines only got more reliable since then.

But again, another problem.easily overcome by a small battery and an ice range extender. Hell, you could get by with a battery degraded to 25% or less capacity like this, it just becomes an electric powered ICE vehicle, lol. And the battery cost would drop tremendously because it'd be massively smaller.

 

[Bluewater272]

I drive between 40,000 and 50,000 miles per year for work in my own vehicle. Some days it’s only about 120 miles, some days I have to fill up mid day. Today I started at 8:00am. It’s currently 11:05 and I’ve already driven 214 miles. These miles have been up and down mountain roads with elevation changes between 600 feet and 2,200 feet, with approximately 200 lbs of weight in the trunk and myself at 180 lbs. With these driving conditions, along with requiring max A/C, I’d be lucky to get half the listed range of an EV.

OK, you drive that much...for work. Do you have a personal vehicle? Does your spouse (if applicable)? What is the annual mileage like for those vehicles (or your personal use of your vehicle)? What you described is the exception, not the rule.

 

[Bluewater272]

People who tow or go on long trips would disagree. People who tow on long trips better have a LOT of spare time in their trip.

*yawn*

Yeah, it doesn't work for me for towing either, but it would work in every other facet of my life. Since these are still early days for EVs, its perfectly fine to not buy one. Its also perfectly reasonable to have an EV in addition to whatever ICE vehicle you like. And you do know that no one is actually making you buy one, right? right? I literally don't understand why people on your side of the discussion get so passionate about it - this would be like me telling people who like brussels sprouts about how terrible they are. This is a powerboat forum, by definition none of us are very 'green'.

 

[Mesa50]

OK, you drive that much...for work. Do you have a personal vehicle? Does your spouse (if applicable)? What is the annual mileage like for those vehicles (or your personal use of your vehicle)? What you described is the exception, not the rule.

My personal vehicle is my work vehicle. I am a W2 employee, so I can’t write off mileage. I ended up at 261 miles for the day, so my last 3 stops were all close together. My wife drives our tow vehicle to work 8 miles one way. We have a “fun” vehicle, which is a Lexus RC-F that I plan on supercharging this winter. I don’t want, or care to own an electric vehicle. I am considering purchasing an F150 hybrid for our next truck. Unless someone tells me I have to drive one. Then I would rip the electric shit out of it, and convert it to a coal/diesel hybrid.