Batteries <electric vehicle battery>

[adrianp89]

Hmmmmm.
Transmission Recall
Another
Trans Failures

Aamco still seems to be in business, weird since transmissions never fail, right?
AAMCO

Seriously, I could make this reply pages and pages long. transmissions and engines still fail, and many, many cars are in the junk yard because of it. That's a fact.

There is another thread about Ford's engine failures in the new Bronco. Failures are still pretty darn common.

 

[Nakk]

GM Supercruise allows you to not have hands on the wheel. I believe that's the same for tesla's equivalent. The second you allow someone to not have to have hands on the wheel and/or don't track to make sure they're actually paying attention, you can call it whatever level you want, people will treat it as an auto pilot that they set and don't worry about. There have been several notable instances of this already.

Yes, there are accidents like I said. I also accurately pointed out that the overall accident rate with Autopilot engaged is a small fraction of the overall rate. You can't fix stupid. Stupid people will abuse the Autopilot just like they abuse the accelerator pedal, the brake pedal and the steering wheel. BTW, Teslas currently track both that your hands are on the wheel at regular intervals, and that your eyes are on the road. If I look away from the road for too long, the car will stop and Autopilot will disengage for the remainder of the trip. If I do that three times, I lose a great deal of Autopilot functionality--permanently. What happens if you fall asleep at the wheel in your car? Does it safely come to a stop while avoiding accidents? Or does it careen off the road, possibly killing you, your passengers and anyone unlucky enough to be driving or walking near you? This happens all of the time. It happens so often that it doesn't even make the news.

Every single Tesla accident that supposedly involves Autopilot makes the national news. If you did that for other cars you'd need a 24/7 news station carrying nothing but accident reports. Literally. BTW, almost every Tesla accident that supposedly involved Autopilot turns out not to have had Autopilot engaged. The car keeps a complete log. People do stupid things, and then they try and blame the car. The news, as accurate as it is, LOL, just reports that Autopilot was in an accident. Then, when the logs prove that Autopilot wasn't engaged, the news is silent. Like I said, you can't fix stupid.

 

[BlkGS]

There is another thread about Ford's engine failures in the new Bronco. Failures are still pretty darn common.

They did that recall based off like 36 engines. And that's a batch of bad parts, that could happen in an EV as well. It's not something an EV is inherently immune from, they also have parts that could be manufactured wrong.

 

[Julian]

Every single Tesla accident that supposedly involves Autopilot makes the national news. If you did that for other cars you'd need a 24/7 news station carrying nothing but accident reports. Literally. BTW, almost every Tesla accident that supposedly involved Autopilot turns out not to have had Autopilot engaged. The car keeps a complete log. People do stupid things,

Not to suggest that auto pilot isn't safer/better at driving vs a human, but the recent news is saying there were more accidents that initially reported:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/06/15/tesla-autopilot-crashes/

 

[adrianp89]

They did that recall based off like 36 engines. And that's a batch of bad parts, that could happen in an EV as well. It's not something an EV is inherently immune from, they also have parts that could be manufactured wrong.

You realize your just arguing to argue if your saying ICE drivetrains are more or just as reliable than EVs. All evidence (along with common sense) says otherwise. There is literally no argument whatsoever.

 

[BlkGS]

Yes, there are accidents like I said. I also accurately pointed out that the overall accident rate with Autopilot engaged is a small fraction of the overall rate. You can't fix stupid. Stupid people will abuse the Autopilot just like they abuse the accelerator pedal, the brake pedal and the steering wheel. BTW, Teslas currently track both that your hands are on the wheel at regular intervals, and that your eyes are on the road. If I look away from the road for too long, the car will stop and Autopilot will disengage for the remainder of the trip. If I do that three times, I lose a great deal of Autopilot functionality--permanently. What happens if you fall asleep at the wheel in your car? Does it safely come to a stop while avoiding accidents? Or does it careen off the road, possibly killing you, your passengers and anyone unlucky enough to be driving or walking near you? This happens all of the time. It happens so often that it doesn't even make the news.

Every single Tesla accident that supposedly involves Autopilot makes the national news. If you did that for other cars you'd need a 24/7 news station carrying nothing but accident reports. Literally. BTW, almost every Tesla accident that supposedly involved Autopilot turns out not to have had Autopilot engaged. The car keeps a complete log. People do stupid things, and then they try and blame the car. The news, as accurate as it is, LOL, just reports that Autopilot was in an accident. Then, when the logs prove that Autopilot wasn't engaged, the news is silent. Like I said, you can't fix stupid.

Don't disagree, I take the reports of pretty much everything in the news woth a grain of salt. Or a whole jar. But it's hard to explain how that guy who got pulled over while reading a book in the back wasn't in Auto pilot isn't it? I'd be skeptical of a claim that it wasn't in auto pilot at that time...

All things considered, I do think that right now its important for these systems to be annoyingly obsessive about ensuring people are paying attention.

 

[BlkGS]

You realize your just arguing to argue if your saying ICE drivetrains are more or just as reliable than EVs. All evidence (along with common sense) says otherwise. There is literally no argument whatsoever.

No, what I'm saying is that the average ICE vehicle will last as long as an EV vehicle, because they'll both be off the road long before the powertraing gives out. Sure, there will be outliers, the tenths of a percent of vehicles with a bad part, a cold solder joint, a defective semiconductor, whatever. But probably 90% of cars on the road aren't taken off the road due to powertrain issues... They're wrecked, beyond economical repair, etc. Those are end games that an EV will still easily have.

 

[Nakk]

Don't disagree, I take the reports of pretty much everything in the news woth a grain of salt. Or a whole jar. But it's hard to explain how that guy who got pulled over while reading a book in the back wasn't in Auto pilot isn't it? I'd be skeptical of a claim that it wasn't in auto pilot at that time...

All things considered, I do think that right now its important for these systems to be annoyingly obsessive about ensuring people are paying attention.

Yes, that idiot did do that. However, as I pointed out, Tesla updated all vehicles--including older vehicles--to track eye movement as well as regular steering wheel interaction. If I try and look at my phone my car let's me know pretty quickly to get my eyes back on the road.

 

[Nakk]

But probably 90% of cars on the road aren't taken off the road due to powertrain issues... They're wrecked, beyond economical repair, etc. .

That would surprise me. Do you have a reference for that claim?

 

[Nakk]

Not to suggest that auto pilot isn't safer/better at driving vs a human, but the recent news is saying there were more accidents that initially reported:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/06/15/tesla-autopilot-crashes/

I'll wait for better data. There a number of disclaimers in that article about the data, and at this point I don't trust any study from this administration, or the Senators listed in the article, until the study and data has been vetted by independent sources. Right off the bat the study is clearly biased as the "click bait" portion of it implies condemnation of Tesla because 70% of the ADAs related accidents involve Tesla, while failing to mention that close to 90% of ADAS equipped vehicles on the road are Teslas. So the 70% number should be touted as evidence that Tesla ADAS is safer than the competition; instead corrupt politicians simply misrepresent the data to try and extort money from Tesla. Biden, Markey, et al have a history of attacking Tesla, IMHO because Tesla pays them no bribes. It is a fact that all other automakers and the UAW pay regular bribes--oops, I mean make campaign contributions and pay speaking fees--to the politicians named in this article, along with the DNC and Joe.

 

[Julian]

I'll wait for better data. There a number of disclaimers in that article about the data, and at this point I don't trust any study from this administration, or the Senators listed in the article, until the study and data has been vetted by independent sources. Right off the bat the study is clearly biased as the "click bait" portion of it implies condemnation of Tesla because 70% of the ADAs related accidents involve Tesla, while failing to mention that close to 90% of ADAS equipped vehicles on the road are Teslas. So the 70% number should be touted as evidence that Tesla ADAS is safer than the competition; instead corrupt politicians simply misrepresent the data to try and extort money from Tesla. Biden, Markey, et al have a history of attacking Tesla, IMHO because Tesla pays them no bribes. It is a fact that all other automakers and the UAW pay regular bribes--oops, I mean make campaign contributions and pay speaking fees--to the politicians named in this article, along with the DNC and Joe.

Wow....because no company has ever covered up, made hard to get, buried bad data about their product? I'm not anti Tesla, but you really seem like a Tesla fan who'll turn a blind eye to anything they do wrong. Yes it is preliminary data but these systems are relatively new in the grand scheme of things and there are bound to be accidents. They'd have been MUCH better off to have released all the data than holding it back and now looking like they had something to hide. I do hope that the additional accidents not reported were held back because they were tiny fender benders vs the one many people recall where the auto drive system thought the truck was an overpass and drove right into it killing the occupant (didn't say "driver" as clearly he wasn't driving). They've change a lot since then as you point out.

EVs drivetrains will, without a shadow of a doubt, out perform ICEs when it comes to longevity. Which is why the automakers are looking at them as a viable way to have a vehicle on the road for over a million miles with relatively low maintenace compared to an ICE. They are already acheiving battery longevity of 1 million miles, and researchers are looking at 4 million mile batteries with single crystal cathodes. This opens up some interesting capabilities....like using your car as a way to run your house during a black out, or as I've said before, enabling fleet vehicles to drive all the time they aren't charging.

 

[djetok]

In my opinion, most people are looking for the economic advantage between the two. I saw a number where EV autos are only 5 % of the vehicles on the road now. With the high prices of autos in general and the likely hood that most people are upside down in their current auto it makes it hard for a lot to switch to ev's.

 

[adrianp89]

In my opinion, most people are looking for the economic advantage between the two. I saw a number where EV autos are only 5 % of the vehicles on the road now. With the high prices of autos in general and the likely hood that most people are upside down in their current auto it makes it hard for a lot to switch to ev's.

Lets be real - they just go further upside down.

 

[djetok]

Lets be real - they just go further upside down.

I agree, but with a economic slow down, bank will be looking to cover their balance sheet. With the high costs of autos the $0 down thing will be a thing of the past. Back in the 80's banks required 20 percent down. 20% back then was a lot less than it is now. 2k vs 8k now on the low side.

 

[BlkGS]

Lets be real - they just go further upside down.

Lol, a friend of mine, a reasonably smart engineer to boot, rolled negative equity from not 1, not 2, but THREE cars over. He bought 2 sports cars in college, then graduated and got married and rolled those into a fancy suv for his new wife to roll in.

Literally, he just paid this off at like 32, because he sold his house. He had not spld.his house and moved I'm sure he'd have traded the jeep he bought her on something else and rolled more negative equity over, lol.

That said, with the tightening of credit markets and things like that its plausible that they stop doing negative equity roll overs. Banks are taking a bunch of risk with car prices so high as it is.

 

[adrianp89]

Lol, a friend of mine, a reasonably smart engineer to boot, rolled negative equity from not 1, not 2, but THREE cars over. He bought 2 sports cars in college, then graduated and got married and rolled those into a fancy suv for his new wife to roll in.

Literally, he just paid this off at like 32, because he sold his house. He had not spld.his house and moved I'm sure he'd have traded the jeep he bought her on something else and rolled more negative equity over, lol.

That said, with the tightening of credit markets and things like that its plausible that they stop doing negative equity roll overs. Banks are taking a bunch of risk with car prices so high as it is.

Sounds like a few people I know. My boss isn't much different lol

 

[Julian]

Not a lot different than buying a boat with a 10 or longer year loan! The interest on these loans is insane and will only be going up in the near term.

Rule of thumb is only spend 10% of your take home pay on your car loan....that takes a huge swath of people out of the new car market (or it should.....but doesn't - they over extend themselves).

 

[djetok]

Not a lot different than buying a boat with a 10 or longer year loan! The interest on these loans is insane and will only be going up in the near term.

Rule of thumb is only spend 10% of your take home pay on your car loan....that takes a huge swath of people out of the new car market (or it should.....but doesn't - they over extend themselves).

Thats a great rule of thumb. I can attest to the banking getting tighter. My commercial lender is a small bank that I have been with for a long time. For the first time ever, they are looking really closely at their loans for repayment. I just sent my docs in and he called said ok. We talked a while and he(the bank) is anticipating a 20 to 25 % default rate.

 

[BlkGS]

Not a lot different than buying a boat with a 10 or longer year loan! The interest on these loans is insane and will only be going up in the near term.

Rule of thumb is only spend 10% of your take home pay on your car loan....that takes a huge swath of people out of the new car market (or it should.....but doesn't - they over extend themselves).

The boat mortgages they offer blow my mind. Pretty sure I saw some 30 year ones. That's nuts, and irresponsible.

 

[Nakk]

Wow....because no company has ever covered up, made hard to get, buried bad data about their product? I'm not anti Tesla, but you really seem like a Tesla fan who'll turn a blind eye to anything they do wrong.

No, I'm just waiting for better data. I do think the investigation is important, but the data is not even close to being complete yet. I would not be shocked if Tesla "massaged" the numbers, nor would I be shocked if the preliminary numbers are inflated. I don't believe incomplete investigations should be used for anything other than indications that the investigation should or should not continue. I do think it should continue, and I also think some of the preliminary data is being used by politicians to further their personal goals. When the investigation is complete, and the data has been reviewed, then it will be worth something. Jumping the gun is never a good idea.

EDITED TO ADD: BTW, just to be clear on me being "a Tesla fan who'll turn a blind eye to anything they do wrong", I think their corporate customer service sucks, and I think many of their business practices are questionable at best. TBH, I'm surprised there aren't more active lawsuits against them. That said, I do think they have the best engineers in the industry.