Cobra Fins - Painting/Powdercoating & Engagement

[Jmulvihill]

I am currently in the market for a Yamaha boat, with the particular one I am interested in having twin 1.8s and no AK. This particular one also has no steering enhancements, so if I do get it, the Cobra Super Ultimate with Mega Fangs steering may be one of the first things I add. I really don't care to get in to the JBP vs Cobra systems. I am sure both are great, but for me, the differences that the Cobra system offers seem to align with how I will be using the boat.

I just have a couple of questions.

1) I saw the thread where Jeff painted some fins/fangs with Rustoleum for a gent who helped him out on some measurements, and in the same thread another gent who had powder coated his Cobra items. With regard to longevity, I would assume that the powder coating would generally hold up better but wanted to see if that is really the case. I believe that the powder coating in the thread was textured, and I would probably lean towards smooth, but would like to know if there are people who have done one and wished they had done the opposite & how each has held up over time. Textured seems like over time it could cause more micro-cavitation on the edges and potentially cause faster breakdown and pitting of the powder coating, but it my be a total non-issue in this application. Any words of experience would be welcomed in this area.

2) I keep seeing threads where one of the big negative differences people seem to highlight on the JBP vs Cobra systems are that the fins on the Cobra system are always down/engaged. But that seems to fly contrary to what Jeff outlines in many posts that I have read, in that the Cobras can be adjusted to many different deployment speeds, so anywhere from always "on" to flipping up at varying speeds based on the hole on the fin that is used. I just want to get verification that I heard Jeff correctly, as it seems that the Cobras offer even more flexibility based on what each boater wants/needs. From what I saw, it really does not look like changing that mounting to a new hole would be very hard such that if I want it to flip up with my usual boating, but if I were to plan a skiing outing I could change it to stay down all the time and then move it back when we were done. If I have misunderstood the Cobra threads and videos and they are really always on, please advise.

Thanks all! I am finding great info on this forum! Fingers crossed that the boat I am looking at doesn't get sold, holds up under inspection/trial this weekend and the deal goes through smoothly. Have a great weekend all!!

 

[biffdotorg]

In on page one.....

 

[Jmulvihill]

Oh heck, it was not my intent to drag in that can of worms. My apologies up front if I inadvertently did... I specifically was trying to avoid it...

 

[mwalker4]

I am currently in the market for a Yamaha boat, with the particular one I am interested in having twin 1.8s and no AK. This particular one also has no steering enhancements, so if I do get it, the Cobra Super Ultimate with Mega Fangs steering may be one of the first things I add. I really don't care to get in to the JBP vs Cobra systems. I am sure both are great, but for me, the differences that the Cobra system offers seem to align with how I will be using the boat.

I just have a couple of questions.

1) I saw the thread where Jeff painted some fins/fangs with Rustoleum for a gent who helped him out on some measurements, and in the same thread another gent who had powder coated his Cobra items. With regard to longevity, I would assume that the powder coating would generally hold up better but wanted to see if that is really the case. I believe that the powder coating in the thread was textured, and I would probably lean towards smooth, but would like to know if there are people who have done one and wished they had done the opposite & how each has held up over time. Textured seems like over time it could cause more micro-cavitation on the edges and potentially cause faster breakdown and pitting of the powder coating, but it my be a total non-issue in this application. Any words of experience would be welcomed in this area.

2) I keep seeing threads where one of the big negative differences people seem to highlight on the JBP vs Cobra systems are that the fins on the Cobra system are always down/engaged. But that seems to fly contrary to what Jeff outlines in many posts that I have read, in that the Cobras can be adjusted to many different deployment speeds, so anywhere from always "on" to flipping up at varying speeds based on the hole on the fin that is used. I just want to get verification that I heard Jeff correctly, as it seems that the Cobras offer even more flexibility based on what each boater wants/needs. From what I saw, it really does not look like changing that mounting to a new hole would be very hard such that if I want it to flip up with my usual boating, but if I were to plan a skiing outing I could change it to stay down all the time and then move it back when we were done. If I have misunderstood the Cobra threads and videos and they are really always on, please advise.

Thanks all! I am finding great info on this forum! Fingers crossed that the boat I am looking at doesn't get sold, holds up under inspection/trial this weekend and the deal goes through smoothly. Have a great weekend all!!

Most people have them set up to be on at all times. The cross bar can be changed to be up while at higher speeds and down at low speeds.. I have never tried so can't tell how well it works.

Additionally, they can be adjusted to be fixed at a higher position. It stays in the same position at all speeds. At higher speeds some of the fin will be out of the water thus reducing but not eliminating the fins impact. During low speed all of the fin is in the water but not as much below the hull and thus might have some marginal reduction in impact.

 

[Jmulvihill]

Most people have them set up to be on at all times. The cross bar can be changed to be up while at higher speeds and down at low speeds.. I have never tried so can't tell how well it works.

Additionally, they can be adjusted to be fixed at a higher position. It stays in the same position at all speeds. At higher speeds some of the fin will be out of the water thus reducing but not eliminating the fins impact. During low speed all of the fin is in the water but not as much below the hull and thus might have some marginal reduction in impact.

Thanks so much for your confirmation. This makes sense. It does not pop up at speed due to the water resistance like the JBP fins, but rather based on the mounting hole used, it just naturally rises out of the water as the hull rises on plane... It that the correct interpretation? Have a great weekend!! I appreciate ya!!

 

[Dixie Highway]

@Cobra Jet Steering LLC can probably explain better, but there are different types of systems too. Some move, some don’t. The Super Magnums I have so not move, but I understand the Ultimate system does.

 

[Gunner]

I have Vipers on my 190. I painted them and after one season of mostly salt water they look like I painted them yesterday. Gave them a good cleaning then hit with two coats of rustoleum primer, two coats of rustoleum paint and then a couple coats of clear coat.

 

[mwalker4]

Thanks so much for your confirmation. This makes sense. It does not pop up at speed due to the water resistance like the JBP fins, but rather based on the mounting hole used, it just naturally rises out of the water as the hull rises on plane... It that the correct interpretation? Have a great weekend!! I appreciate ya!!

Sort of, One of the sets of holes is angled to catch the flow and rise at speed, the others are flat and do not catch the flow, thus the spring keeps them down at the same level all speeds.

 

[Jmulvihill]

Sort of, One of the sets of holes is angled to catch the flow and rise at speed, the others are flat and do not catch the flow, thus the spring keeps them down at the same level all speeds.

OK, I guess I need to do some additional research so I can better understand how the Super Ultimate fins & Mega fangs work. But, I have to get the boat first, so fingers crossed that will go OK this weekend...!!

 

[Weeb]

CJS is a little confusing some have springs other models don’t. You probably want the ones that don’t.

 

[Jmulvihill]

CJS is a little confusing some have springs other models don’t. You probably want the ones that don’t.

Well, the description of the Super Ultimate Steering system for twin engines say that they are spring loaded and "can be set at the level of influence YOU choose to meet your personal needs", and "can easily be set to go up at speed or stay in the water at all speeds"...

That seems to be the best of both worlds, in that I could set them down all the time or adjust (however that is accomplished) to pop up at a higher speed if desired... Then add in the Mega Fangs Plus... If Jeff's other systems force always down or always pop-up, that seems like it is more limiting, but I am not familiar with all of the ins and outs that others here with vast more experience have, so appreciate the guidance in helping me better understand.

Thanks again all!!

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

@Jmulvihill The ultimate version of my steering systems are capable of being set to stay in the water at speed or go up out of the water you choose. I always recommend keeping them in the water at speed as you get so much more handling and instant response and that setting is pretty addictive like driving a sports car on a dry road.. the actuator between the fins rides under the water exiting the nozzle and that water exiting the nozzle holds the fins down at speed.
If you change the angle of that actuator so that it catches the water exiting the nozzle it lifts the fins up at speed so basically not giving you any benefit above the docking and slow speed assistance, so for help with water sports or rough conditions or waves, strong currents , heavy boat traffic etc. you should choose to go with the all time steering setting so that is why I always recommend the down at speed option especially when you can choose from a variety of high speed settings. Also in the up at speed mode the spring returns the fins to the water when the boat slows down.
For the full time settings the spring acts as a backup if the engine is shut off or stalls it will place the fins in the water.
In the full time setting the nice thing about the water exiting the nozzle and actually holding the fins down at speed is that you don't need to worry about the spring fatiguing as the water jet is doing all the work holding down the fins even at W O T.
As for the super fins, these have replaced the original version of the Ultimate and the Magnum fins. Super fins have a larger extended fin surface above the bottom of the nozzle so they add more slow speed forward and reverse influence to the system only when the boat is off plane , when it gets up on plane any part of the fins above the bottom of the nozzle is out of the water and any part below the nozzle is still providing extra steering and improving the handling, therefore having the different levels of influence puts you in control of the steering system while the system puts you in control of the boat. As for coloring the fins I used the Rustolium all in one paint and as far as I know it works pretty nicely and it sure beats spending a lot of money for colors that are not even visible unless the boat is out of the water. I always stay focused on steering system features and benefits.
I have super ultimate systems for the general populous of Yamaha jet boats twin and single engine prior to the articulating keel models and Super ultimate A K for the articulating keel section of the twin engine boats starting in 2015 for the 24 foot boats and 2017 for the 19 and 21 foot boats and a special version of that Super ultimate AK-19 for the single engine boats starting with the 2019 models and the latest nozzles . I also make super magnum systems and viper systems for various models as well as fangs and mega fang plus also for various models, each section on my web site tells you what boats the particular system is compatible with. I also use this special super fin to provide exceptional steering with very minimal increase in steering resistance at the helm with minimal fin protrusion under the nozzle. to minimize any possible contact with the ground when deployed.

 

[Jmulvihill]

@Jmulvihill The ultimate version of my steering systems are capable of being set to stay in the water at speed or go up out of the water you choose. I always recommend keeping them in the water at speed as you get so much more handling and instant response and that setting is pretty addictive like driving a sports car on a dry road.. the actuator between the fins rides under the water exiting the nozzle and that water exiting the nozzle holds the fins down at speed.
If you change the angle of that actuator so that it catches the water exiting the nozzle it lifts the fins up at speed so basically not giving you any benefit above the docking and slow speed assistance, so for help with water sports or rough conditions or waves, strong currents , heavy boat traffic etc. you should choose to go with the all time steering setting so that is why I always recommend the down at speed option especially when you can choose from a variety of high speed settings. Also in the up at speed mode the spring returns the fins to the water when the boat slows down.
For the full time settings the spring acts as a backup if the engine is shut off or stalls it will place the fins in the water.
In the full time setting the nice thing about the water exiting the nozzle and actually holding the fins down at speed is that you don't need to worry about the spring fatiguing as the water jet is doing all the work holding down the fins even at W O T.
As for the super fins, these have replaced the original version of the Ultimate and the Magnum fins. Super fins have a larger extended fin surface above the bottom of the nozzle so they add more slow speed forward and reverse influence to the system only when the boat is off plane , when it gets up on plane any part of the fins above the bottom of the nozzle is out of the water and any part below the nozzle is still providing extra steering and improving the handling, therefore having the different levels of influence puts you in control of the steering system while the system puts you in control of the boat. As for coloring the fins I used the Rustolium all in one paint and as far as I know it works pretty nicely and it sure beats spending a lot of money for colors that are not even visible unless the boat is out of the water. I always stay focused on steering system features and benefits.
I have super ultimate systems for the general populous of Yamaha jet boats twin and single engine prior to the articulating keel models and Super ultimate A K for the articulating keel section of the twin engine boats starting in 2015 for the 24 foot boats and 2017 for the 19 and 21 foot boats and a special version of that Super ultimate AK-19 for the single engine boats starting with the 2019 models and the latest nozzles . I also make super magnum systems and viper systems for various models as well as fangs and mega fang plus also for various models, each section on my web site tells you what boats the particular system is compatible with. I also use this special super fin to provide exceptional steering with very minimal increase in steering resistance at the helm with minimal fin protrusion under the nozzle. to minimize any possible contact with the ground when deployed.

Jeff -

Nice to meet you and my thanks for the awesomely detailed response. I will be contacting you soon, as I think the deal is sealed for the Yamaha I was looking at. 2014 212SS Went and looked at it today and really liked it. Was in really good shape and ran well. Only issue was after the short test run, there was about a gallon of water in the bilge that came out when plug was removed. Current owner is going to have his dealer check it over for any issues, then will go and close the deal at his bank.

So with this boat, what would your recommendation be for Cobra system components? Super Ultimates with Mega Fang Plus...?

Thanks again!!

Joe...

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Yes the super ultimate system with the mega fang plus upgrade and a set of EZ locks for the clean out plugs .

 

[Ratket]

@Jmilvihill update ur Profile, with some info- where you are from/ Boat/year/ the water in the back could be from A few different sources.
This forum is very very helpful and full of great members, you will find answers for everything.

 

[Ratket]

Yes the super ultimate system with the mega fang plus upgrade and a set of EZ locks for the clean out plugs .

Get the Easy Locks!!! Best insurance you can buy to prevent a Blow out, super easy to install.

 

[Jmulvihill]

@Jmilvihill update ur Profile, with some info- where you are from/ Boat/year/ the water in the back could be from A few different sources.
This forum is very very helpful and full of great members, you will find answers for everything.

Yes, it has been VERY helpful in my researching process to buy my first Yamaha. The water in the bilge posts were very helpful, as I had already read up on that so knew some of the culprits when I saw it today.

The boat is technically not mine yet, but unless the current owner decides to sell it out from under me, which my gut tells me he won’t as he was a really nice gent, I should have it in the next week or 2. I will definitely update the profile then. Don’t want to do it now and jink the deal. I already had one close call with a nightmare water trial on another boat, so I am a little gun shy...

The boat is a 2014 212SS, just over 100 hours. One owner, and it seems like he took really good care of it. Typical scratches and love taps, but just shows that they had fun with it. Once all goes through, I will get it all updated in the profile.

Joe...

 

[Jmulvihill]

Get the Easy Locks!!! Best insurance you can buy to prevent a Blow out, super easy to install.

Yep, they were on the list. There was only one option for it, so the choice was easy...!

 

[Ratket]

If you don’t mind, what are you getting it for?

 

[Ronnie]

I can't speak to the rustoleum v. powder coating question but as for the Cobra Jet Fins, the fangs are not adjustable at all but the main fins are fully adjustable, meaning you can have them always in the water or retract at speed and the depth they are in the water is also adjustable. I have mine set to stay in the water all the time. I have experimented with different settings in the past but found for my boating always in is best, plus I don't want to go through the effort of adjusting them most of the time. It's easy to do when the boat is on the trailer (two wrenches and a few small nuts and bolts) but I don't like to do so when the boat is in the water.