Distortion, new speakers no amp

[David Analog]

You can't ruin speakers without enough Watts. You ruin the speakers by clipping (Distorting) the signal going to the speakers, this usually happens in an underpowering situation because people turn their HU up as loud as it gets and the distortion ruins the speakers, not the lack of wattage.

Right, you cannot ruin speakers without enough watts. Too much power does thermal damage to speakers. Distortion isn't the cause. If distortion was the cause then every time you listened to a guitar riff using an Ibanez tube screamer your speakers would be toast. Distortion is certainly a symptom of over-driving an amplifier, but not the root cause of speaker failure. Music is a ratio of tremendous short term power to very minimal continuous power. When you over-drive an amplifier into hard clipping, you greatly compress the signal thereby creating an inordinate degree of continuous power, which turns your speakers into tiny toaster ovens. Speakers don't function without resistance and resistance creates heat. The most sensitive speakers are only single digit efficiency which means that well over 90% of the amplifier power is converted to heat. Power Kills. If you have big power driven into compression it is infinitely more dangerous than small power driven into compression.

 

[David Analog]

I think it is that large titanium tweeter vs silk in JLs.
ICON8s are not bad at all, just not super soft. Nothing like the old style HLCDs shrill, punishing, and harsh, lol. More like just very bright.

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JL Audio takes an interesting approach to tweeters. You'll find that the JL Audio MX650 uses a 0.75" dome, while the M770 uses a 1.0" dome, while a M880 uses a 1.2" dome. As the midbass increases in size so does the tweeter. As the larger midbass cones cannot produce well in the upper mids, the tweeter gets larger to take more responsibility for lower treble. Thus, there is no gap in the response and you have a smoother response. Also, JL Audio uses a coated soft silk dome that has a much lower inherent resonance, and is better damped without the harsh spikes and peaks.

 

[swatski]

JL Audio takes an interesting approach to tweeters. You'll find that the JL Audio MX650 uses a 0.75" dome, while the M770 uses a 1.0" dome, while a M880 uses a 1.2" dome. As the midbass increases in size so does the tweeter. As the larger midbass cones cannot produce well in the upper mids, the tweeter gets larger to take more responsibility for lower treble. Thus, there is no gap in the response and you have a smoother response. Also, JL Audio uses a coated soft silk dome that has a much lower inherent resonance, and is better damped without the harsh spikes and peaks.

Totally makes sense.
Wish we had a @David Analog channel here on the forum.

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[jameskeller76]

I would be very interested in what you find with that swap!

I have 10 DB651s and really like those. To me they sound very soft and musical yet plenty loud without any distortion when properly powered.

My new (tower) Wet Sounds ICON8s are very good speakers, excellent quality etc. However, I would NOT describe the Icons as mellow sounding speakers by any stretch (or particularly musical for that matter). Perfectly good when under way. But when we are stationary I find myself turning the Icons down and cranking the in-boats (DBs).

My zoning works very well with the WS420.

Curious what you'll find.

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Here's my unprofessional review:

I got the WS420 installed and started installing the new WS XS650s. It dawned on me that this would be a good opportunity to compare so I installed 2 of them and left the other 2 DB651's in place. I went through the WS setup, pulled all but the boat RCA, 75% volume, flat, gains down, etc etc, you know the drill. So I cranked up the gain until I heard some distortion and it turns out the DBs were distorting but the XSs still sounded good. So I back down the gain so both were playing clearly. This is where I could really see the difference. When I started adjusting the bass, mids, highs the XSs really shined. They will move some serious air for a little speaker. They would keep pumping away with clear bass and highs but the DBs would distort. When you look at the construction its not surprising that they can handle more. The surround in bigger and beefier, the weight is at least twice as much. All in all just a nicer speaker and they sound great.

Here's a comparison pic. The XS is a monster compared to the Polks.



Note, you have to drill new holes for the WS XS650, they are wider.

 

[Jgorm]

View attachment 58629

That speaks volumes. Magnet size correlates very well with speaker performance.

 

[swatski]

Here's my unprofessional review:

I got the WS420 installed and started installing the new WS XS650s. It dawned on me that this would be a good opportunity to compare so I installed 2 of them and left the other 2 DB651's in place. I went through the WS setup, pulled all but the boat RCA, 75% volume, flat, gains down, etc etc, you know the drill. So I cranked up the gain until I heard some distortion and it turns out the DBs were distorting but the XSs still sounded good. So I back down the gain so both were playing clearly. This is where I could really see the difference. When I started adjusting the bass, mids, highs the XSs really shined. They will move some serious air for a little speaker. They would keep pumping away with clear bass and highs but the DBs would distort. When you look at the construction its not surprising that they can handle more. The surround in bigger and beefier, the weight is at least twice as much. All in all just a nicer speaker and they sound great.

Here's a comparison pic. The XS is a monster compared to the Polks.

View attachment 58629

Note, you have to drill new holes for the WS XS650, they are wider.

Great review, very very helpful, thank you for sharing!

Now, you are making me wonder..., lol.
When I did mine, 4 DBs did not do the trick. I think I am going to keep my 10 DBs in place as I am very happy with those. However, for anyone swapping just the factory 4 in a 240 - the XSs like yours would be the way to go for sure! (or JL MXs).

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[jameskeller76]

Great review, very very helpful, thank you for sharing!

Now, you are making me wonder..., lol.
When I did mine, 4 DBs did not do the trick. I think I am going to keep my 10 DBs in place as I am very happy with those. However, for anyone swapping just the factory 4 in a 240 - the XSs like yours would be the way to go for sure! (or JL MXs).

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I'm currently at 4 XS, Kicker KMT tower speakers, and a 10" JL sub. some mid cabin speakers might be the next install.

 

[David Analog]

Yes, the Polk dB and Wetsounds XS650 live in completely different realms.
The Polk dB, despite Polk assertions as "marine rated", really is not a marine product in any sense. It has a painted metal basket, open midbass voice coil, linen spider, no protection from the elements, etc. But in my opinion, the Polk dB651 absolutely owns the entry-level price point in sound quality.
The Wetsounds XS650 has a deeper basket and larger spider = longer controlled excursions = better midbass. Sealed midbass cone = more surface area = better midbass. Synthetic fiber spider which means it won't fatigue from high humidity = will stay tight sounding season after season. Encapsulate magnet, composite basket, coated tinsel leads, to prevent corrosion/rust. And so much more that goes into making a true marine speaker and a high performance speaker.
The new Wetsounds Revo6 replacement and the JL Audio MX650 have all the same construction qualities and add encapsulating the crossover components.

On a side note, a larger magnet size doesn't necessarily translate to better quality or better sound. This is most true when it comes to woofers. A magnet is kind of like a differential on your car. The largest ratio or the smallest ratio is not always the best. The ratio has to match the rest of the drive train and the purpose for which the vehicle was intended.

 

[bigblank69]

/\ this.

Magnet size can also differ by material. The Polk MM651 uses a neodynamium magnet, which is smaller then the ferrite magnet on the Db651... but neodynamium is much stronger of a magnet, so it's motor has more force than that of the db651.