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Drove a lightning yesterday...

BlkGS

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Have you driven or ridden in the Mach E? Just curious what you're comparing it to when you call it kinda small. It's roomier than it looks.

We've put about 15k miles on our base model Mach E over the last 18 months. If someone's looking for a full sized SUV, or a high-performance sports car, or a tow vehicle, it isn't any of those things. If someone's looking for a mid-size SUV that's a great ride, capable in a snow storm, holds five adults comfortably with room for luggage in the back, is fast as hell for a mid-size SUV, and has a range that meets 95% of normal daily needs, it fits the bill pretty well, for us anyway.

If we're doing a trip that's more than 150 miles, we're probably taking my truck unless we know there's an easy Fast Charge spot near our destination.
My point is more that a 60k mach E GT is a lot smaller than a 70k lightning, and doesn't do all the extra stuff the lightning does.

I also don't have any use for a vehicle like that. Certainly a lot of people do, but I have no use for a midsize SUV that can't tow and has compromised cargo space cuz of the hatch. Just me, a lot of people like that form factor.
 

redthumper9

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Seems to be pretty common. Lot of people reserved EVs to try to flip for profit, and that's not happening anymore.
Yep. We actually were day one reservation holders for the new Bronco. Took 521 days to come in and when it did, we almost immediately ordered another one. This one only took about 5 months to come in. Traded her first one and the dealer gave us 7k more than we paid after having it 6 months.
 

Coult45

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My point is more that a 60k mach E GT is a lot smaller than a 70k lightning, and doesn't do all the extra stuff the lightning does.

I also don't have any use for a vehicle like that. Certainly a lot of people do, but I have no use for a midsize SUV that can't tow and has compromised cargo space cuz of the hatch. Just me, a lot of people like that form factor.
Fair point. I would have gladly paid a little more to be able to power my house off the car battery during an outage.
 

@JC!

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I just went the other way and bought a Ram TRX which will also pull my boat/pwc/enclosed trailer, this EV crap is useless around here as the lack of range when doing actual truck stuff is stupid painful.
 

BlkGS

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I hate the TRX, mainly because the big 3 refuse to make sport trucks and instead stuff powerful motors in big stupid lifted off-road trucks that will never go off-road. They should be stuffing those motors into lowered trucks with improved suspensions and seats to take advantage of that power.

But I'm the sort of guy who thinks the supercharged Harley f150 from like 2003 was nearly the ideal truck, with it's only flaw being no option for 4x4 for pulling a boat up a ramp. A lowered SRT hellcat ram is exactly what I'd want, and the only way to get something like that now is a roush nitemare, Shelby super snake, or build it yourself. If they put like a quarter of the effort into sport trucks that they put into off-road trucks I'd be happy.
 

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I would guess the big 3 knows the market. My guess is that there is probably more demand for lifted off-road trucks than sport trucks. This is why we see factory lifted trucks and third party trucks sold at dealerships (like Black Widow). Personally, if I wanted a go-fast vehicle, I would get a sports car not a sports truck. Are there any third party trucks sold at dealerships?

Jim
 

BlkGS

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I would guess the big 3 knows the market. My guess is that there is probably more demand for lifted off-road trucks than sport trucks. This is why we see factory lifted trucks and third party trucks sold at dealerships (like Black Widow). Personally, if I wanted a go-fast vehicle, I would get a sports car not a sports truck. Are there any third party trucks sold at dealerships?

Jim
You can buy a roush nitemare, a Shelby super snake, I think Callaway does some stuff for the silverados, etc at the dealers. They're expensive though, like 100k plus.

Maybe that's the real issue, a well options truck is already into the 70 to 80k range, throw another 20 to 30k worth of sport upgrades on it and you can buy a cheaper truck and a sports car.

They used to sell a lot of sport trucks, I dunno if it's a cost thing, or something to do with CAFE or something, but they certainly don't offer stuff like they used to.
 

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I live in rural Alabama and the EV charging infrastructure is terrible. My wife and I visited San Francisco and there were charging stations everywhere. I actually thought about getting a Model 3 or Mach E for around town driving (since I could charge them overnight at the house) but ended up getting a 6 spd manual WRX. Figured I should get a new manual car since it won’t be long until manual cars are no more. ☹
 
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Coult45

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I live in rural Alabama and the EV charging infrastructure is terrible. My wife and I visited San Francisco and there were charging stations everywhere. I actually thought about getting a Model 3 or Mach E for around town driving (since I could charge then overnight at the house) but ended up getting a 6 spd manual WRX. Figured I should get a new manual car since it won’t be long until manual cars are no more. ☹
I traded my 6 Spd manual 2012 Golf R (and my wife's Forester) for the Mach E. Good decision all around, but I miss driving that Golf. I'll bet your WRX is an absolute ton of fun!
 

2kwik4u

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They used to sell a lot of sport trucks, I dunno if it's a cost thing, or something to do with CAFE or something, but they certainly don't offer stuff like they used to.
I wouldn't say they sold a lot of them. There used to be a lot of offerings of them. As a fellow "sport truck" guy, I get it. We're already driving the things that are about as close to "sport trucks" as we can get currently. I'm pretty certain it's all ROI based calculations on what sells the most units, and how many units they can spread development time across. The market for sport trucks is likely smaller than the market for fast wagons. Enthusiasts, and journalists love them, but the buying public largely doesn't. The only real case for a sport truck in the current market is, well, marketing. Generate some buzz around the product line in general with special editions and that sort of thing, however the development costs are high for something that is actually better than just a drop and trim packages. Hell GM is struggling to compete in the "stadium truck" market against the raptor and trx currently, a sport truck is just another distraction into the market that doesn't' have the buzz these others do.........Don't get me wrong, I would love one as well, but I think we're stuck with a "build it" instead of being able to buy it.

On the lightning front.......well......It's what I would expect from a 1/2 step into the market. They didn't fully commit with a new platform, but still wanted to capture some of that first mover advantage in a hot market. It shows. The design cues look rushed, and you can see the limitations in things like the grill and badging. The absurd rear suspension (Have you seen the rear control arms? They're as big as a person), and the quickly adapted rear drive unit show how rushed the whole project was. I think there was some low hanging fruit there that they did well with, like the best front trunk (I refuse to use frunk as a word, btw) on the market, as well as fitting into a form factor that is highly recognizable and already has some street cred. Rivian has the polarizing front fascia, and headlights. The Hummer is absurdly large and lacks practicality. Silverado, Denali, and RAM are still not to market, but show some promise. Overall, I would like to see Ford do some of the things you talked about, and honestly I agree with the PHEV route for a pickup. Ford already has the Powerboost driveline, just find some packaging space for a larger battery in there and give it some acceptable EV only range (50mi is plenty IMO) and I think they'll find some more people converting. People that owned the original Chevy Volt LOVE them as they spend a lot of time without using the gas engine on their daily commute. It's a great idea for those of us that want a fullsize pickup and actually use it for something other than a commuter.

In terms of full up EV truck landscape. I'm likely to get a refund on me Silverado deposit. I've held back on a Rivian deposit. As the EA chargers are loading up, they're starting to show some cracks in their armor. Beyond that we're seeing some growing pains from Rivian in terms of service, and maintainability. I suspect the big 3 won't have those issues, but they might; at least they have a dealer network already stood up and running to handle it if they do. I'm really on the struggle bus with spending that much money on a vehicle for no real added capability, and arguably more headache. If I'm going to put additional effort into something I don't want it to be route planning and keeping the kids entertained while driving. I think if we weren't towing, sure the charges aren't long and the stops are worth it. Towing's not there yet, and I've made 2-3 trips a year where I simply couldn't have done it with an EV. The latest SilverAYdo retrieval is a prime example. A shade over 600 miles towing a trailer in a single day. Started at dusk and finished after dark. Even if using an EV was possible (There was charging available on an alternate route), it would have added a few hours to my day that was already exceptionally long.

Lots of rants, and a big wall of text there....TL;DR -> Sport truck market is tiny, and we're unlikely to see them again anytime soon. Lightning is a 1/2 step and it shows. I'm disenthused with EV trucks at the moment, and am likely out of that market where I was once all in.
 

seanmclean

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hey desperately need a range extender motor, I would gladly trade the frunk and a ton of range for it.
I would buy the shit out of that. Give me a 75-100mi range unloaded, with a ICE backup. 90% of my driving would be electric only, with no limitations to haul the boat somewhere.
 

BlkGS

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I wouldn't say they sold a lot of them. There used to be a lot of offerings of them. As a fellow "sport truck" guy, I get it. We're already driving the things that are about as close to "sport trucks" as we can get currently. I'm pretty certain it's all ROI based calculations on what sells the most units, and how many units they can spread development time across. The market for sport trucks is likely smaller than the market for fast wagons. Enthusiasts, and journalists love them, but the buying public largely doesn't. The only real case for a sport truck in the current market is, well, marketing. Generate some buzz around the product line in general with special editions and that sort of thing, however the development costs are high for something that is actually better than just a drop and trim packages. Hell GM is struggling to compete in the "stadium truck" market against the raptor and trx currently, a sport truck is just another distraction into the market that doesn't' have the buzz these others do.........Don't get me wrong, I would love one as well, but I think we're stuck with a "build it" instead of being able to buy it.

On the lightning front.......well......It's what I would expect from a 1/2 step into the market. They didn't fully commit with a new platform, but still wanted to capture some of that first mover advantage in a hot market. It shows. The design cues look rushed, and you can see the limitations in things like the grill and badging. The absurd rear suspension (Have you seen the rear control arms? They're as big as a person), and the quickly adapted rear drive unit show how rushed the whole project was. I think there was some low hanging fruit there that they did well with, like the best front trunk (I refuse to use frunk as a word, btw) on the market, as well as fitting into a form factor that is highly recognizable and already has some street cred. Rivian has the polarizing front fascia, and headlights. The Hummer is absurdly large and lacks practicality. Silverado, Denali, and RAM are still not to market, but show some promise. Overall, I would like to see Ford do some of the things you talked about, and honestly I agree with the PHEV route for a pickup. Ford already has the Powerboost driveline, just find some packaging space for a larger battery in there and give it some acceptable EV only range (50mi is plenty IMO) and I think they'll find some more people converting. People that owned the original Chevy Volt LOVE them as they spend a lot of time without using the gas engine on their daily commute. It's a great idea for those of us that want a fullsize pickup and actually use it for something other than a commuter.

In terms of full up EV truck landscape. I'm likely to get a refund on me Silverado deposit. I've held back on a Rivian deposit. As the EA chargers are loading up, they're starting to show some cracks in their armor. Beyond that we're seeing some growing pains from Rivian in terms of service, and maintainability. I suspect the big 3 won't have those issues, but they might; at least they have a dealer network already stood up and running to handle it if they do. I'm really on the struggle bus with spending that much money on a vehicle for no real added capability, and arguably more headache. If I'm going to put additional effort into something I don't want it to be route planning and keeping the kids entertained while driving. I think if we weren't towing, sure the charges aren't long and the stops are worth it. Towing's not there yet, and I've made 2-3 trips a year where I simply couldn't have done it with an EV. The latest SilverAYdo retrieval is a prime example. A shade over 600 miles towing a trailer in a single day. Started at dusk and finished after dark. Even if using an EV was possible (There was charging available on an alternate route), it would have added a few hours to my day that was already exceptionally long.

Lots of rants, and a big wall of text there....TL;DR -> Sport truck market is tiny, and we're unlikely to see them again anytime soon. Lightning is a 1/2 step and it shows. I'm disenthused with EV trucks at the moment, and am likely out of that market where I was once all in.
Honestly, I prefer that Ford stuck with the f150 platform. Sure, it has some oddities, and trying to hold up a giant payload with an IRS means you've got giant control arms. I think these purpose built EV platforms all end up too weird for me. Lightning looks the best out of the EV trucks because it looks like a regular truck.

I ended up making an offer on an Ecoboost f150, doubt heyll take it, but I gave it the old college try.
 

2kwik4u

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Honestly, I prefer that Ford stuck with the f150 platform. Sure, it has some oddities, and trying to hold up a giant payload with an IRS means you've got giant control arms. I think these purpose built EV platforms all end up too weird for me. Lightning looks the best out of the EV trucks because it looks like a regular truck.

I ended up making an offer on an Ecoboost f150, doubt heyll take it, but I gave it the old college try.
ONly one I really hate the styling on is the Cybertruk. Think looks like some stuff I drew when I was in 4th grade. Rivian, Silverado, Denali, and Ram all look fine to me. F150 is fine as well, just another truck, not stellar and not disappointing either.

Good luck on the new pickup!
 

BlkGS

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ONly one I really hate the styling on is the Cybertruk. Think looks like some stuff I drew when I was in 4th grade. Rivian, Silverado, Denali, and Ram all look fine to me. F150 is fine as well, just another truck, not stellar and not disappointing either.

Good luck on the new pickup!
I hate the rivian, cyber truck doesn't count because it's not real. The GMs and Chevy arent terrible, but i want to see one in person before I make a real judgement. The ram isn't close to production enough to assess IMO.

The lightning looks like a regular f150, that's the perk. The drawback is it looks like a cheap ass f150, the grille looks like a cheap piece of plastic, the lightbar looks cheap, the wheels are ugly, the only thing that really is an improvement on the regular truck is the tailgate IMO.

I'm kinda indifferent about this truck. It's a nice truck and basically everything i want, but I also know it won't drove how I want at first, and so I'm looking at suspension mods, and I feel pretty confident that in the next few months prices on trucks is going to come down even more than it has already. The TBSS is running great, and because of the way the deal worked out (and the fact that dealers don't give good money for older vehicles like it), I'd have to sell it private party. So that's a pain, dealing with people aren't really gonna buy it, and honestly, it's a really nice TBSS, so I'm not gonna give it away.

I had toyed with buying a cheap truck for house stuff and as a backup daily driver, found a decent deal on a supercharged 03 Harley f150... But my buddy has me semi convinced it's just another shit box vehicle to maintain. And that means it likely wouldn't be easy to sell the wife on if my car guy buddies don't see it as a smart choice.
 

2kwik4u

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I hate the rivian, cyber truck doesn't count because it's not real. The GMs and Chevy arent terrible, but i want to see one in person before I make a real judgement. The ram isn't close to production enough to assess IMO.

The lightning looks like a regular f150, that's the perk. The drawback is it looks like a cheap ass f150, the grille looks like a cheap piece of plastic, the lightbar looks cheap, the wheels are ugly, the only thing that really is an improvement on the regular truck is the tailgate IMO.

I'm kinda indifferent about this truck. It's a nice truck and basically everything i want, but I also know it won't drove how I want at first, and so I'm looking at suspension mods, and I feel pretty confident that in the next few months prices on trucks is going to come down even more than it has already. The TBSS is running great, and because of the way the deal worked out (and the fact that dealers don't give good money for older vehicles like it), I'd have to sell it private party. So that's a pain, dealing with people aren't really gonna buy it, and honestly, it's a really nice TBSS, so I'm not gonna give it away.

I had toyed with buying a cheap truck for house stuff and as a backup daily driver, found a decent deal on a supercharged 03 Harley f150... But my buddy has me semi convinced it's just another shit box vehicle to maintain. And that means it likely wouldn't be easy to sell the wife on if my car guy buddies don't see it as a smart choice.
Lots of folks hate the Rivian. I kinda like it. Front headlights are still weird, but not bad. R1S is far more attractive than the R1T though, for me anyway.

I've seen some online shots of the CT out testing in the wild. It looks worse now than the launch as they've worked through what's legal and what's not, and what really makes sense. I can't wait until it's launched and we start seeing the complaints about melted cars that were parked next to it (from the glare), or the myriad of other issues that come from driving giant mirror polished stainless sheets around suburbia.

I went the "buy a cheap ass truck" route, and am so far pretty happy about it. It's definitely going to be a bit of a project, but I'm honestly kind of looking forward to "restoring" the truck a bit, and then possibly doing a few small mods. Been looking at drop kits, and scouring the interwebs for a nice set of aluminum wheels. Needs some tint, and tune up, but my time is freeing up a little, and I kind miss having a project car around.......You've got a newborn either here, or about to be here so I'm guessing another chunk of maintenance is NOT what you need in your garage right now. Kind of agree with your car buddies there.
 

BlkGS

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Lots of folks hate the Rivian. I kinda like it. Front headlights are still weird, but not bad. R1S is far more attractive than the R1T though, for me anyway.

I've seen some online shots of the CT out testing in the wild. It looks worse now than the launch as they've worked through what's legal and what's not, and what really makes sense. I can't wait until it's launched and we start seeing the complaints about melted cars that were parked next to it (from the glare), or the myriad of other issues that come from driving giant mirror polished stainless sheets around suburbia.

I went the "buy a cheap ass truck" route, and am so far pretty happy about it. It's definitely going to be a bit of a project, but I'm honestly kind of looking forward to "restoring" the truck a bit, and then possibly doing a few small mods. Been looking at drop kits, and scouring the interwebs for a nice set of aluminum wheels. Needs some tint, and tune up, but my time is freeing up a little, and I kind miss having a project car around.......You've got a newborn either here, or about to be here so I'm guessing another chunk of maintenance is NOT what you need in your garage right now. Kind of agree with your car buddies there.
Unfortunately I think you're right. I might get lucky, the cheap truck only has 130k or so, so that's like 6k miles a year on a 20 year old truck, but it's also a 20 year old truck. Stuff needs replaced on a 20 year old truck.
 

2kwik4u

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Unfortunately I think you're right. I might get lucky, the cheap truck only has 130k or so, so that's like 6k miles a year on a 20 year old truck, but it's also a 20 year old truck. Stuff needs replaced on a 20 year old truck.
I'd take a well cared for 185k mile truck over a barely driven 60k mile truck. I've bought both in the past and I'm fully convinced sitting does more damage than miles.
 

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I'd take a well cared for 185k mile truck over a barely driven 60k mile truck. I've bought both in the past and I'm fully convinced sitting does more damage than miles.
I think the bigger issue is me. I'm not the sort of guy that can drive a vehicle with a worn bushing or ball joint. I'd probably want to rebuild the blower to make sure it has another 100k in it, etc. So yeah, probably would end up being a time sink too.
 

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I think the bigger issue is me. I'm not the sort of guy that can drive a vehicle with a worn bushing or ball joint. I'd probably want to rebuild the blower to make sure it has another 100k in it, etc. So yeah, probably would end up being a time sink too.
I play jump rope with that line myself. When I fix something it's 110% fix, however when I'm not fixing something I have a problem with "if it ain't broke, don't touch it". Riding that fine line between exceptional preventative maintenance and a break/fix only mentality.

If I had more budget I would do way more preventative maintenance. At least that's what I tell myself.
 

@JC!

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Personally, if I wanted a go-fast vehicle, I would get a sports car not a sports truck.
I only have so many stalls in the garage... lol

Is it a compromise? somewhat, but it's also faster than any other ICE vehicle that can still tow all my sh#t around.
 
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