Engine Troubles

[WilCo]

2013 AR190
~85 hours on the engine

Saturday, went fishing so was idling / wake mode quite a bit. Engine ran a bit rough, but seemed to clear again back to normal after running a bit at throttle.
Sunday, towed the kids on the tube. Ran rough one time, but then smoothed out again. After stopping for a bit to swim at a small island (middle of the lake), was towing the tube back to the dock. Had been going from 5500 rpm to wide open probably about 10 minutes, all the sudden the engine died. Could not get it restarted so flagged down a boat and got towed back to the dock.

Took it to the dealer (Yamaha shop) and they found 0,0,55,0 compression. They called me again this afternoon suggesting I should talk to my insurance about a claim as they would likely recommend replacing the engine (at near what I paid for the boat!).

It doesn't sound right to me. Why can't they determine what is causing the loss of compression (gasket?) versus throwing away an engine. Even if the engine needs to be rebuilt, it should not cost the same as what I paid for the whole boat.

Other ideas?

 

[Bruce]

I would be looking into whether it was a timing chain failure.

Yamaha has often paid for those repairs.

https://jetboaters.net/threads/have-you-had-a-1-8-timing-chain-failure-was-it-in-warranty-and-how-has-yamaha-handled-it.10799/

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

my thought exactly

 

[Neutron]

I agree, chain could have stretched causing the rough running. Then it finally broke.

 

[Bruce]

I also am curious if the engine was running when taken to the dealer but now not running?

 

[WilCo]

I did ask him about that when he called this afternoon after reading through the forum some earlier in the day. Hoping to hear back from them tomorrow morning with good news.

Any idea what the standard Yamaha warranty is? I looked earlier today and didn't find it. I know I had found it previously as I knew to take it to (this same) dealer when I bought it about 2 years ago so they could transfer the warranty.

 

[WilCo]

Engine would not start at all once it died completely. It cranks, but does not start (I verified the kill switch already - has that behavior).

 

[seanmclean]

Standard warranty is 1 year, possibly 5 year YES on it (since you mentioned a transfer), but may be out of date already depending on start date.

 

[swatski]

2013 AR190
~85 hours on the engine

Saturday, went fishing so was idling / wake mode quite a bit. Engine ran a bit rough, but seemed to clear again back to normal after running a bit at throttle.
Sunday, towed the kids on the tube. Ran rough one time, but then smoothed out again. After stopping for a bit to swim at a small island (middle of the lake), was towing the tube back to the dock. Had been going from 5500 rpm to wide open probably about 10 minutes, all the sudden the engine died. Could not get it restarted so flagged down a boat and got towed back to the dock.

Took it to the dealer (Yamaha shop) and they found 0,0,55,0 compression. They called me again this afternoon suggesting I should talk to my insurance about a claim as they would likely recommend replacing the engine (at near what I paid for the boat!).

It doesn't sound right to me. Why can't they determine what is causing the loss of compression (gasket?) versus throwing away an engine. Even if the engine needs to be rebuilt, it should not cost the same as what I paid for the whole boat.

Other ideas?

Unfortunately those are interference engines so if the timing chain goes it creates carnage.
Yamaha has been very good in most cases replacing engines with broken TCs at no cost to owners.

--

 

[Neutron]

I doubt it would crank after a chain broke. OP states it cranks good but no fire

 

[WilCo]

don't have time to read through the entire 16 page thread linked above again, but pretty sure that is expected with a chain break from what I read last night (crank, but no start).
I will call the dealer again today and ask them to specifically check it.

 

[adrianp89]

Mine intermittently cranks but does not start. When it starts it runs great. Dealer cannot figure out issue after four trips back.... this past time it started every time for them.

 

[WilCo]

Dealer was unwilling to check timing belt so talking to corporate. Will see how this develops. Dealer told me I need a new engine for 15-20K.

 

[haknslash]

This is something you would have to take up with Yamaha and not your dealer or have a really good dealer willing to go to bat for you on a KNOWN issue. Yamaha is well aware of this issue. Thy have repaired boats out of warranty to keep customers from spreading the noise and demand recalls for a known issue. Yamaha changed components in 2016.

To test you could do a compression test. If dealer of unwilling to pull your valve cover you can certainly do it. The gasket would need to be replaced but nothing hard about inspecting the chain and timing gears. Sounds like your dealer is unwilling to cooperate.

 

[swatski]

Dealer was unwilling to check timing belt so talking to corporate. Will see how this develops. Dealer told me I need a new engine for 15-20K.

First, it is a timing chain, and he would need to take the head cover off - 8 or so bolts and a new gasket - all it takes. How does he knwo you need a new engine? Where did he come up with 15-20k? Greenhulk sells those blocks for about 5k...
IDK about that dealer...

You best bet may be to press (politely) Yamaha, if it really is the TC - they know it is an issue and have been very cooperative.

--

 

[WilCo]

corporate has been very helpful so far. Dealer is now willing to inspect the timing chain after a call from corporate.
Compression was already done by the dealer. 0,0,55,0

 

[haknslash]

That's good to hear they are once again stepping in. Sounds like timing chain for sure.

 

[boudin]

@WilCo do you recall the approx. RPM at time the motor shut off? If it was a timing chain failure, compression numbers like that indicate bent valves. The good news is that if you do have bent (and not dropped or broken) valves, the head can likely be rebuilt.

1. Removal of the valve cover to diagnose a broken timing chain
2. Removal of the head to inspect the condition of the cylinder domes
3. Take lots of pics, and go from there

The above can be done with the motor in the boat in <30 min by any competent Yamaha tech.

If you find out it's not under warranty, and Yamaha won't cover it, WFO on greenhulk.net is local to you in Houston and will fix it for you for way less than any dealer. If you decide to go that route, let me know and I'll get you contact information.

If you just want a 2nd opinion, I can help.

-Greg

 

[WilCo]

you're a life saver Greg! I was between, I would guess, 5500 and 7500 RPM when it quit. I was towing a tube back to the boat ramp and typically vary speed when doing that.
Looking forward to hearing back from Yamaha today or tomorrow.
I would love WFO's contact information regardless as I doubt I will be using this dealer for future work.

 

[boudin]

PM Sent.