EV discussion - hate or love?

[zpaul]

Now that is EV. And you probably need a energy plant next to it to use 6MW charger.

Fortescue's 6MW electric vehicle charger stuns the EV and mining industries

Fortescue says it has developed a 6 MW charger that can reboot the 1.8 MWh batteries in its giant electric haul trucks in just half an hour.

thedriven.io

 

[Bluewater272]

First time I've bought a vehicle 100% online, so I'm curious to see how the purchase experience is.

Buying the Tesla online was the easiest large transaction I've ever done - and its not even close. I'm not buying any new vehicles for the foreseeable future, but I'm dreading the next dealership experience. I was inside the store for maybe 5 minutes to sign a couple DMV forms and off I went.

 

[zpaul]

Buying the Tesla online was the easiest large transaction I've ever done - and its not even close. I'm not buying any new vehicles for the foreseeable future, but I'm dreading the next dealership experience. I was inside the store for maybe 5 minutes to sign a couple DMV forms and off I went.

And I recently bought truck and what a nightmare that was. First, fighting over price they posted on their website ( if you are not selling for that price - why did you post it?!?!), second fighting over addons I don't want at inflated prices (like no name spray in bed liner for $1200, while LineX was $700), and best part dealing with finance guy for 2-3 hours trying to sell 3rd party warranty, interior protection, prepaid service and on and on. Signing 100 pages of small print.
In that regard just because of Tesla experience people do not want to go back to regular dealership ever again. Everything signed online and you just come at your time slot to get keys, everything is ready15 min and you are on your way.
I would also say that Selling 3 cars to Carvana was an awesome experience too. Took pictures, uploaded all information to their website, got quote, scheduled pick up date, handled the keys, 1-2 days later all the money in the bank! No games.

 

[Murf'n'surf]

They just scheduled a Monday delivery in Cleveland. Holy balls it's moving quick. I'll be impressed if they can work the lease/payoff paperwork that fast.

Supply is way higher than demand, I would like to take on a Rivian but need to wait for an incentive. I would have a Cyber Truck if they didn't look so dumb.

 

[BlkGS]

And I recently bought truck and what a nightmare that was. First, fighting over price they posted on their website ( if you are not selling for that price - why did you post it?!?!), second fighting over addons I don't want at inflated prices (like no name spray in bed liner for $1200, while LineX was $700), and best part dealing with finance guy for 2-3 hours trying to sell 3rd party warranty, interior protection, prepaid service and on and on. Signing 100 pages of small print.
In that regard just because of Tesla experience people do not want to go back to regular dealership ever again. Everything signed online and you just come at your time slot to get keys, everything is ready15 min and you are on your way.
I would also say that Selling 3 cars to Carvana was an awesome experience too. Took pictures, uploaded all information to their website, got quote, scheduled pick up date, handled the keys, 1-2 days later all the money in the bank! No games.

It's funny because it's so true.

All the automakers are trying to do something similar to this but the problem becomes that almost every other vehicle doesn't have fixed pricing, you've got negotiations and all that crap. I don't think I would want to buy a car via super easy method if that meant paying full MSRP.

Clearly there's work to be done here, but I don't think dealers are going to be ok with being told "our new model is going to be listing vehicles with prices at below invoice with all incentives, and you're not going to be able to make money off selling 3rd party warranties or adding financing points".

 

[BlkGS]

Friend of a friend is a fire chief up in St Pete area. They got smashed by the storm, lots of flooding. They had 10 building fires they responded to last night. Of those 10, 8 were linked back to lithium ion batteries in EVs.

So I guess the lesson here is don't let your EV get flooded with salty water, and if you do, park it away from your house.

Edit: Update, the "EVs" that he was talking about were mainly electric bikes. So cheaper, less well sealed battery packs.

 

[Bluewater272]

It's funny because it's so true.

All the automakers are trying to do something similar to this but the problem becomes that almost every other vehicle doesn't have fixed pricing, you've got negotiations and all that crap. I don't think I would want to buy a car via super easy method if that meant paying full MSRP.

Clearly there's work to be done here, but I don't think dealers are going to be ok with being told "our new model is going to be listing vehicles with prices at below invoice with all incentives, and you're not going to be able to make money off selling 3rd party warranties or adding financing points".

If the price is the price, then I'll pay the price. That being said, my Model 3 was discounted off MSRP and I ordered it that way. Sure beats spending hours negotiating and still having no idea if you overpaid or not. You can of course still add on extras if you want, but its all there in the app, not with some 3 pack a day sleazebag offering you a wheel warranty for $2500, and then dropping to $900 when you don't accept. It's all anti-consumer horseshit.

 

[2kwik4u]

Supply is way higher than demand, I would like to take on a Rivian but need to wait for an incentive. I would have a Cyber Truck if they didn't look so dumb.

This was about the best incentive I've seen on them. $6k friends and family discount, $7.5k EV tax Credit, and $2,500 discount for being a '24 model year. On top of that the lease is structured with a very high residual and very low interest rate. I pulled the trigger thinking it's unlikely to get better than this.

 

[BlkGS]

If the price is the price, then I'll pay the price. That being said, my Model 3 was discounted off MSRP and I ordered it that way. Sure beats spending hours negotiating and still having no idea if you overpaid or not. You can of course still add on extras if you want, but its all there in the app, not with some 3 pack a day sleazebag offering you a wheel warranty for $2500, and then dropping to $900 when you don't accept. It's all anti-consumer horseshit.

I don't disagree. But I also can't see a company like Honda ever going to this without it just being MSRP only. Honda of course having the sleaziest of all dealers.

I think the automakers would have to likely start a new brand ground up to be able to accomplish this, especially the domestics, because they massively.inflstr their MSRPs to make people feel good about paying 10% off MSRP, when that's really the intended price, and 20% off MSRP is the norm for a sale price. If they priced everything at MSRP and that's it, nobody but an absolute buffoon would buy them. If they make their easy buy thing at a realistic price, the dealers will have strokes about not having the chance to rip people off.

 

[2kwik4u]

If the price is the price, then I'll pay the price. That being said, my Model 3 was discounted off MSRP and I ordered it that way. Sure beats spending hours negotiating and still having no idea if you overpaid or not. You can of course still add on extras if you want, but its all there in the app, not with some 3 pack a day sleazebag offering you a wheel warranty for $2500, and then dropping to $900 when you don't accept. It's all anti-consumer horseshit.

Agreed. I'll take MSRP over hours of haggling. Not that my time is that valuable, but my lower blood pressure is. The fewer idiots I have to deal with the better.

Wait, why am I here again ?!?!
(sorry, couldn't help myself. I love this board and nobodies an idiot!)

 

[BlkGS]

Agreed. I'll take MSRP over hours of haggling. Not that my time is that valuable, but my lower blood pressure is. The fewer idiots I have to deal with the better.

Wait, why am I here again ?!?!
(sorry, couldn't help myself. I love this board and nobodies an idiot!)

I'm not to that point yet where a few hours is worth tens.of thousands to me yet, lol.

That said, I would accept a slightly worse deal if it was painless. I have a buddy he goes after every last penny, multiple walk out and then haggle more the next day bouts, that sort of thing. I don't have the patience for that.

 

[2kwik4u]

I'm not to that point yet where a few hours is worth tens.of thousands to me yet, lol.

That said, I would accept a slightly worse deal if it was painless. I have a buddy he goes after every last penny, multiple walk out and then haggle more the next day bouts, that sort of thing. I don't have the patience for that.

$10k is a monster discount in this market unless it's an EV.

 

[zpaul]

It's funny because it's so true.

All the automakers are trying to do something similar to this but the problem becomes that almost every other vehicle doesn't have fixed pricing, you've got negotiations and all that crap. I don't think I would want to buy a car via super easy method if that meant paying full MSRP.

Clearly there's work to be done here, but I don't think dealers are going to be ok with being told "our new model is going to be listing vehicles with prices at below invoice with all incentives, and you're not going to be able to make money off selling 3rd party warranties or adding financing points".

That's fair statement. Except all traditional dealers are overpriced and drop prices $5-10k off their new trucks/cars. So if say Ford or Ram would post MSRP $10K lower there would be no need to fight over MSRP. You would just wait like with Tesla end of quarter or end of year to get better financing or some discount.
Biggest gripe I have with dealers is they post prices I like and it is very easy to do research what is fair and what is not, but as soon as you show up the shit show starts.
I am usually pretty upfront - I see this price, see this is special financing, I do not need anything else from you. So if you want to do quick deal - let's do it, if not - I am moving on to another dealer. Do not want to waste my time or their time. Would be much easier if I can click on their site I agree to that price, feel out all BS paperwork and show up to pick up my truck.
Have only one good sales guy at Toyota Dealer, no games, always gets best price he can (verified him at least on 5 cars), but their finance manager never learns, same BS every single time. (Him "You sure you do not want to protect your vehicle for only $120 more a month?!?!" Me "100% I do not want to pay another $7,200 to you sir!")

 

[Murf'n'surf]

That's fair statement. Except all traditional dealers are overpriced and drop prices $5-10k off their new trucks/cars. So if say Ford or Ram would post MSRP $10K lower there would be no need to fight over MSRP. You would just wait like with Tesla end of quarter or end of year to get better financing or some discount.
Biggest gripe I have with dealers is they post prices I like and it is very easy to do research what is fair and what is not, but as soon as you show up the shit show starts.
I am usually pretty upfront - I see this price, see this is special financing, I do not need anything else from you. So if you want to do quick deal - let's do it, if not - I am moving on to another dealer. Do not want to waste my time or their time. Would be much easier if I can click on their site I agree to that price, feel out all BS paperwork and show up to pick up my truck.
Have only one good sales guy at Toyota Dealer, not games, always gets best price he can (verified him at least on 5 cars), but their finance manager never learns, same BS every single time. (Him "You sure you do not want to protect your vehicle for only $120 more a month?!?!" Me "100% I do not want to pay another $7,200 to you sir!")

The auto sales industry needs a rebuild. People do not want to negotiate like they did 30-50 years ago. Show me the price and I will buy it, don't hide add on's and post fake discounts!

 

[zpaul]

The auto sales industry needs a rebuild. People do not want to negotiate like they did 30-50 years ago. Show me the price and I will buy it, don't hide add on's and post fake discounts!

Pretty much how Carvana operates. I probably wouldn't buy used car from them since I still want to see it touch it drive it, but I am pretty happy with selling experience. So far they beat all my trade in offers. Wish they started selling New vehicles with delivery to your door!

 

[BlkGS]

$10k is a monster discount in this market unless it's an EV.

You can easily get that off an f150, ram, Durango, or a handful of other expensive vehicles.

There's hellcat Durango's that are 20-30k off. Granted, their MSRP now is like 110k for a loaded one, but still big discounts lol.

 

[BlkGS]

Pretty much how Carvana operates. I probably wouldn't buy used car from them since I still want to see it touch it drive it, but I am pretty happy with selling experience. So far they beat all my trade in offers. Wish they started selling New vehicles with delivery to your door!

CarMax has done this for a long time too. There's a few dealerships that claim to bo "no haggle" dealers. Not sure that's always a good thing though.

 

[2kwik4u]

You can easily get that off an f150, ram, Durango, or a handful of other expensive vehicles.

There's hellcat Durango's that are 20-30k off. Granted, their MSRP now is like 110k for a loaded one, but still big discounts lol.

That begs the question. Why didn't they just post that price to begin with?

You might be able to get $10k off a vehicle, but I suck at that part of the process, and generally hate it. So much so that I've taken someone with me to do the haggling on my behalf the last 5 times I've bought a vehicle. If I have to haggle personally, I'll just walk away. The anxiety, stress, and time just isn't worth it for me. If I can't afford the list price, I'll likely just not show up to begin with.

I ALMOST bought a Durango R/T when I bought the Audi. I drove it, liked it, and told the guy he was $3k high (on a $40k vehicle). He said "sorry, we don't haggle, that's the price. If you don't buy it someone else will". I replied with an "OK, thanks" and went on my way. Bought the Audi two days later. Durango lot called back 5 days later "You ready to come in and talk numbers?", I said "I already have, you didn't move on price and I don't have time to deal with that crap. I've bought elsewhere and you lost the sale". That Durango sat on that lot for another 4 weeks, ultimately listing for $5k under what my $3k reduction was going to be. I assume they eventually sold it, but cheese and rice what a piss poor way to operate.

So far, the largest issue with getting paperwork on the Rivian (in the 30hrs I've been working on it) is getting payoff paperwork on the Audi. Small bank in central Indiana and I can't get them to send me a formal payoff request, despite talking to the same branch manager 3 times now. All the Rivian side stuff has been pretty easy.

 

[BlkGS]

Honestly, I think car sales is just full of snakes that think they're the slickest person ever born. They honestly think that they're gonna talk people into paying whatever they want because they're sooo slick.

I agree though,iof dealers would just put the best price they can actually offer (not inudimg discounts like you need to be military for this one, current leasee for this one, professional mime for that one, etc)

What irritates me more than anything is all the other bs fees that continually increase. Used to be $250 was a high doc fee. Now some places are charging $2k. Wtf is that even for? That's part of your doing business. Oh this is our "advantage fee" it covers a buncha bullshit that adds no value and we probably didn't even do like uv marking the VIN on the car.

 

[zpaul]

CarMax has done this for a long time too. There's a few dealerships that claim to bo "no haggle" dealers. Not sure that's always a good thing though.

yeah, I was Carmax customer for new cars at the beginning. Then they stopped being competitive and local dealers started giving better prices since Carmax was listing theirs. And eventually Carmax got out of new car game completely.
Last time I went to Carmax they offered $2k less than Carvana.
I would usually use their offers to get my trade in up. Now just sell it, less negotiation with the dealer.
Tesla offers pretty crapy trade ins btw, but they are unloading what they bought immediately, so it is just convenience to sell to them.