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EV discussion - hate or love?

I hope so, lol. Compatibility with T chargers feels like a key benefit.
I initially pulled in and realized I was blocking 2 spots the way I was parked, so I backed up and moved around so I was only blocking the one spot on the end.

This place had a MagicDock, and the handshake just worked as intended. Add 112mi in 32min. capped itself at 150kW for some reason. Truck is supposed to be capable of 220kW, charger was listed at 250kW.

We're making an emergency run to Louisville tomorrow, so I took my lunch break to setup the Tesla App and make sure the truck would take a charge from a Tesla network charger. Aside from the wonky parking, everything went really easy. I've no used EA, ChargePointe, and Tesla to DCFC the truck. Should be enough to get me to Louisville.
 
OK, I promise I don't intend to spam this thread......but I've got a LOT of new experiences that are, at least somewhat, relevant.

SO, I did a run to Louisville and back this weekend from Buffalo. Had a family emergency to deal with, and it was SUPER last minute notice type trip. Like found out on Friday night, and was in the truck Saturday morning type thing. We took the Rivian instead of the Rogue for space reasons. Wife and I, two kids (13/6) and a 50lb lab mix. All in the truck for the trip. Down on Saturday, back on Tuesday.

We've made this trip about 10 times this year because of the move. Average time alone is ~8.5hrs. Average time with family in a single vehicle is ~9.5hrs. Average time with 2 vehicles is ~10hrs. We made the trip down in the Rivian in 9.5hrs. Made the trip home in 10hrs. That's door to door, soup to nuts all in time. SO, over ~550mi journey, the added time to "deal with the EV" wasn't trivial, but it certainly wasn't an issue either. So, IMO, that mystery is debunked, or rather, no longer a valid argument against getting an EV. NOW, with that said, if I was travelling by myself, it would be a different story. I would have added ~90min to the "normal" journey to "deal with an EV". As it works out with the family, the time it takes to charge is really pretty close to the time it takes to get 4 people and a dog out of the car, use the restroom, find a snack, tell 3/5 of them "NO" 700 times, and get back in the car and ready to go again. Only once did we have to "wait on the charger", and that was on purpose so we could make the final leg home without another stop. Would have saved ~15min had me made another stop instead of charging to 98% on that last stop.

I changed as little as possible about my driving style. Cruise was set to 5-7mph over the limit the whole way there and back. We fought a nasty headwind on the way back that really cut into efficiency, but it ended up still being "in the noise" as we never landed at a charger with less than 50mi of range, and again, never had to wait on a charger to get moving again. The Rivian is a THIRSTY truck in terms of consumption. We covered just over 1,400mi and averaged 2.06mi/kWh (485Wh/mi). Turns out, trucks are inefficient when compared to cars; whole shaped like a brick thing, and all.

I charged at 4 different networks. All worked, pretty flawlessly really. Rivian Action Network, Tesla Superchargers, EVGo, and Electrify America. Of course they all had to have their own apps, with their own logins, and own payment methods, and then you have to start the charge with that chargers app before you plug in. That all SOUNDS like a giant PIA, but in reality, it wasn't that bad. I had most of them setup on Friday night in about 30min in preparation for making the trip on Saturday. Once we were on the road and using them, they all just kind of worked. Say a fast charge speed of 218kW. Rivian is supposedly maxed at 220kW, so that appears to be working as it should. I was usually coming in with 15-20% of range left, and was charging into the 75-80% state of charge. Most charge sessions were 20-30min or so, which was enough to get me to the next station. On the way down that translated into the first leg of 3hrs, then about every 2hrs after that for a charge stop. Only twice it a leg feel "too long" or "too short". It honestly wasn't bad at all.

In terms of planning, I had loaded up ABetterRoutePlanner app, and had it connected to my Rivian account for live vehicle data. Then I never touched it. The route planning in the truck worked great. We put in a destination, told it what networks we wanted to prefer, and it routed us south in a minute or so. We headed out with the mantra "In Rivian we trust", and it didn't let us down. Range estimates were spot on even when the "math" didn't work out. Like on the last leg we left with almost 300mi of range, and it was predicting we would have 50mi when we got home, however GPS was telling us it was only 192mi to get there. I'm guessing the range remaining calculation takes into account temperature as well as elevation, as the math said we would land with 108mi, but we pulled in with 51mi of range. Super weird how it knew ahead of time, but was pretty damn accurate. There were several times when we wanted to "swap out" a charger and that was a little bit of a process, but once we figured out the steps it was fairly easy. Say it routed us to an EA charger. We would zoom in (there is satellite imagery on the maps) and see what was around. Well there might be a Tesla charger 3mi further, but was in a Sheetz parking lot instead of a Meijer parking lot. We could add the Tesla, and the truck would recalculate the whole journey and away we went. Fairly painless after the first one.

Now, the truck did really well. I'm like 98% happy with it (see below for the few things I'm not) It was pretty surprising that we had 4 people and a dog in the cab, and all our "stuff" for a few days away from home in DRY storage and I don't have a bed cover. Suitcases, bags, toys, snack cooler, laptop bags, etc ALL fit in the trunk and gear tunnel. Only thing in the bed was the dog crate we brought along just in case. There was ample room in the back seat for the boys and the dog, and Shelly and I were comfy in the front. The front storage area on the floor ahead of the console was great for keeping all her "stuff" that has to ride in the cab (tablet, cross stitch, 3 books, purse, etc), and the cupholders and console held all the "stuff" we needed. Overall, aside from the tire noise from the absurd A/T tires, it was a fairly pleasant place to spend 8+hrs sitting.

I do miss a few things from the Audi. The Rivian seats are hard and not as comfy as the Audi seats. Took awhile to find a truly "neutral" position for me. Back hurt on the way down, was OK on the way back. Rivians driver+ autonomous lane keep tech is decent, and the adaptive cruise works great. HOWEVER, there is no "resume" function in the cruise control. Who in the exact F&<k decided that was a good idea to remove? Every time you cancelled cruise, you had to reset the speed you wanted. Either get there and engage, or set and then use steering wheel controls to adjust setpoint. Totally asinine setup IMO. Speaking of dumbass decisions, adjusting the vents on the screen is effing terrible. Like, seriously I've never spent so much time fiddle-f&,king around with a setting in any car, ever. It's a change just for the sake of being a change, and it's awful.

Overall, as a "first EV road trip ever" type situation, we're all really happy with how it went down. Zero drama or issues along the way, and no real reason to doubt we can make that trip again. Didn't even really have any "range anxiety" with the level of planning and prep combined with the "what you see is what will happen" nav system in the truck. I don't know if Rivian really nailed that and it's not common with all EV's, of if this is just how stuff works now, but I'll take it either way.
 
so how much did the 1400 miles cost?
guessing each of the charging networks charge diff rates? if so, are those posted in the apps so that you would see the rate before pulling in and opening the app? ya know like gas station price signs?
 
so how much did the 1400 miles cost?
guessing each of the charging networks charge diff rates? if so, are those posted in the apps so that you would see the rate before pulling in and opening the app? ya know like gas station price signs?
Each charger has it's rates posted in the app, and on the screen as you pull in. They don't really have "gas signs" like you see on the highway, you have to open the app, or pull right up to the thing to see the rates. Not like they are all over the place either, so you're somewhat limited by range once you get to one. For instance, the one in Marengo, OH doesn't have another charger around for like 30mi or so. If you come in "hot" to that one, you're kinda stuck at their prices, at least to the point you can charge enough to get to the next nearest competitor.

I pulled the below data from transaction history in each app.

Trip Down = $73.22
Pre-Charge in Buffalo, NY = $21.16 (Tesla SC in Fredonia, NY - $0.42/kWh)​
Charge in Cleveland = $0.00 (Free charging with RAN- $0.00/kWh)​
Charge in Marengo, OH = $27.76 (EVGo @ Pilot- $0.62/kWh)​
Charge in Loveland, OH = $24.30 (Tesla SC- $0.41/kWh)​

Around Town
Charge in Louisville, KY = $35.05 (Electrify America- $0.48/kWh) <--This was to run around Louisville for Sun/Mon/Tue before leaving, but still part of the trip.​

Trip up = $115.04
Charge in Cincinnati = $40.08 (Electrify America- $0.48/kWh)​
Charge in Marengo, OH = $35.95 (EVGo @Pilot- $0.62/kWh)​
Charge in Cleveland, OH = $39.01 (EVGo @ Eastgate Plaza- $0.50/kWh)​

Total trip = $223.31; over 1,400mi that's about $0.159/mi or so.

Not shown is the $35 in electrons I put in this morning on the way to the office, as I left the house with about 20mi of range for a 30mi commute. Swung by a local fast charger for ~20min to get enough to get me to the office and home, then to the airport tomorrow.

For reference, I had an all time running cost on the Audi of $0.217/mi. So it's quite similar in total cost. Rough guess would have been 3 tanks of fuel at ~$80/ea or about $240 or so in fuel cost that route.

Tesla had the lowest prices because I "joined as a member", however the family preferred the chargers near the gas stations and most of the Tesla chargers seemed to be near grocery stores, so I didn't use them as much as I could have. Could have saved $30-$50 overall using them exclusively. Also, I only get free charging on the RAN network for 6mo, and there is only one between Louisville and Buffalo and it's not really "on the way" for us, so that will factor in on the next trip I'm sure.

Also, home charging is billed at $0.12/kWh, so I should be seeing a reduction of ~75% in energy costs to drive once I get the home charger installed. Of course, that's not really road trip info, so there's that.
 
Thanks for an honest real life review. This is so much better than auto journalist that have an EV for week and report on it.
 
I noticed that too, love to take EV for road trip like Tesla, but charging is same as gas car at least for Tesla chargers.
Sounds like others way more expensive.
Main benefit - better tech than gas cars, minimal maintenance, and bigger savings charging at home!
 
thanks for the write up with great data.
 
Your experience is kind of what I expected. No real cost savings on a long trip, and "charging infrastructure is the problem" is BS, you had no problem finding chargers, it's the time that is (or is not) an issue for people.

We had our stops down to a 10 minute deal prior to baby 2. Wife uses bathroom while I gas up, baby changed while I use bathroom, in out done. Add the dog in, that added 2-10 minutes (because the wife thinks the dog needs a walk to stretch his legs). I assumed our stops would get faster with the kids getting bigger, instead of needing to change a diaper they can just use the bathroom - maybe that's not as true as I expected.

I think the bigger issues are cost and dorky design, as well as longevity concers.. The design is getting better as the mainstream brands get involved and make real cars that happen to be EVs. Pricing seems to be getting better too as people aren't buying them and manufacturers are having to cut prices and throw incentives at them (which will lead to a weird see saw system where they sell when cheap, and manufacturers say "great we can drop the incentives" and then they stop selling).

I think in 2 years or so the EV landscape will look a lot different. There will be better cars that aren't so dorky and cheap looking, and the pricing will likely have fallen a lot to get them to sell.

I will again say that I think EV adoption would be further along had there been no government intervention. No carbon credits, no cafe credits, no tax incentives. With as much taxpayer money as got publicized as going to them, EVa got the negative stigma aof being for "a certain type of people" that has greatly hampered their adoption. I dunno how you course correct that.
 
Thanks for an honest real life review. This is so much better than auto journalist that have an EV for week and report on it.

What you don't like reviews where manufacturers give them a car for a week or two and it's stuffed with gifts and they get a vacation from it too? Lol


Same.
 
I noticed that too, love to take EV for road trip like Tesla, but charging is same as gas car at least for Tesla chargers.
Sounds like others way more expensive.
Main benefit - better tech than gas cars, minimal maintenance, and bigger savings charging at home!
A couple of thoughts here.

Tech is different, not necessarily better. Lane keep and adaptive cruise, as well as stereo was better in the Audi. If by tech you mean giant screen, and integrated software stack, then yea maybe.

The driving experience is better overall. Especially in traffic. Point and shoot torque delivery really helps navigate heavy traffic easily and safely.
 
A couple of thoughts here.

Tech is different, not necessarily better. Lane keep and adaptive cruise, as well as stereo was better in the Audi. If by tech you mean giant screen, and integrated software stack, then yea maybe.

The driving experience is better overall. Especially in traffic. Point and shoot torque delivery really helps navigate heavy traffic easily and safely.
Never drove Rivian. But Tesla tech to me was superior to any gas car I drove, especially lane assist and adaptive cruise.
So far none of gas cars I tried can replicate that experience.
 
BMW's adaptive cruise and lane assistance is sublime. Lame assist is a little heavy handed if I'm being picky, what if I don't WANT to use my turn signal? It gets mad at me. But man, it's good outside of that. The adaptive cruise in our expedition worked really well at first, but Ford did an OTA Update at some point and made it much tougher and jerkier. I suspect it's the version of apple processor throttling to get us to trade for a new one.
 
Not sure what the gas costs are where most folks are, but where I live, gas is expensive and electricity is cheap. I would expect significant savings based on my typical usage, especially with the ability to charge for free at an office 2-3x/week.

It still doesn't math out to make the switch yet for me, but I expect that it will in a few years. Assuming the "charge for free" option doesn't go away!
 
The only other disclaimer is Auto insurance is significantly higher for Electric cars vs Gas.
But Again I am comparing $50k Tesla vs $75K Ford F150. Premiums were almost 40% more for Tesla same insurance company.
Not sure what the premiums are Audi Q7 vs Rivian. May be those are in the same ball park.
 
Not sure what the gas costs are where most folks are, but where I live, gas is expensive and electricity is cheap. I would expect significant savings based on my typical usage, especially with the ability to charge for free at an office 2-3x/week.

It still doesn't math out to make the switch yet for me, but I expect that it will in a few years. Assuming the "charge for free" option doesn't go away!

2.89 for regular 87, 3.32 for premium 93. Prices have been a bit high lately. We are usually about 30-40 cents less than that.
 
Wow. We're at about $4.40 for regular, pushing $5 for premium. Actually a bit cheaper than it has been!
 
The only other disclaimer is Auto insurance is significantly higher for Electric cars vs Gas.
But Again I am comparing $50k Tesla vs $75K Ford F150. Premiums were almost 40% more for Tesla same insurance company.
Not sure what the premiums are Audi Q7 vs Rivian. May be those are in the same ball park.
Rivian cost me $41/6mo more than the Q7. Q7 was about $100/6mo less than my Sierra.
 
Not sure what the gas costs are where most folks are, but where I live, gas is expensive and electricity is cheap. I would expect significant savings based on my typical usage, especially with the ability to charge for free at an office 2-3x/week.

It still doesn't math out to make the switch yet for me, but I expect that it will in a few years. Assuming the "charge for free" option doesn't go away!
Making the switch for energy savings alone will always have an absurdly long break even point. I've been doing that math for a diesel Jetta for years. It's never "worth it" on that savings alone.

I wouldn't switch to electric thinking you're saving the planet or your saving cash versus what you're driving now. I would switch, when the time to replace your existing vehicle is naturally happening anyway. Either by choice, habit, or whatever other reason. You can certainly offset the higher price of an EV with energy savings, but it's not enough to cover taxes/registration/interest over the life of the vehicle.

For reference, I will be close to "saving" $200/no in energy costs when I get home charging setup. Assuming it cost $2k to get a home charger and electrician, that's 10mo in ROI right there.
 
That's the real issue. If there's no ROI, the vehicles have to be that much better. And they're not, most of them are hideously cheap inside, cutting basic stuff in the name of "modern".

If they were taking a regular ass vehicle, putting an EV powertrain in it, and selling it at or near cost parity with the ICE equivalent, I think they'd sell. If Lightning had the same interior and exterior of the 2025 f150, I would have one now. Ford has basically hit cost parity, but the lightning interior is weird and old and just not as nice as the regular f150 interior. I'd even be ok with it being a little more because it's like a much higher powered version of the ICE truck, so I could live with 3-5k over the price of the ICE for the extra power.
 
That's the real issue. If there's no ROI, the vehicles have to be that much better. And they're not, most of them are hideously cheap inside, cutting basic stuff in the name of "modern".
No, they don't. There is ROI, if you're already buying something anyway. There is significant value to be found when comparing an EV to an ICE. For me, it's to the tune of about $200/mo in savings.

It's NOT beneficial to swap vehicles just for the savings. If you're already going to buy something anyway, THEN you might as well get an EV and enjoy the benefits.

The Rivians build quality is better than my Sierra and on par with the Audi. I would hardly call it cheap inside, and when comparing the $85k-ish sticker on my R1T to the $85k-ish sticker on a new High Country/Platinum/Titanium/etc it's as nice or nicer than all of those. Granted a Rivian is perhaps NOT in the field of "most of them", but I'm curious which ones are in that group.

It feels really strongly like you don't WANT the premise of an EV to work. Kind of a "glass half empty" vibe you're giving off here. And that's OK, but you're making some pretty strong sweeping statements that are largely subjective in nature. I get we all have our opinions on if EV's are, or should be, forced upon us, but I'm all for consumer choice here. The more options we have the better.
 
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