Going from bigger to smaller?

[WiskyDan]

So I purchased my first boat at the very end of last season from a Yamaha dealer in Oshkosh WI - an ‘06 SX230 with 122 hours. I decided that I wanted to buy something less expensive to learn the ropes and, in case I didn’t like the whole boating thing, my investment would be relatively low.

I’m now hooked and am planning on upgrading. I don’t really want to pay $60,000 for a new AR240 but $46,000 for a new AR210 is more palatable. So, I’d love to find out if others have done this same thing and if the positives of having a newer boat outweigh it being smaller.

We basically use the boat for cruising and pulling a few friends/kids around on tubes - not huge crowds.

 

[agannole93]

I've never owned either, but I've heard from many people that they feel the 21 footers are just as spacious as the 23's. The newer open bow design of the newer boat compared to the 06 you have, I would think you'd feel you have ton more space. My only concern if I were in your position would be moving to a lower powered boat.

 

[WiskyDan]

That’s a good point, I’m going to do some research on the TR-1 vs the MR-1 engines - thank you.

 

[rrmidden]

As a 212X Owner (also bought at Team Winnebagoland), I know I'm biased, but I think the 21' Foot Boats are just about perfect. If I had 4 kids, I'd likely be in a 24', but I don't, so since it's just my wife and I most of the time, the 21' is plenty for us, and still has enough space when we have friends on the boat, which isn't happening this year anyways.

If you want the larger engines you could look at the 212 or 212S.

 

[agannole93]

That’s a good point, I’m going to do some research on the TR-1 vs the MR-1 engines - thank you.

I just read a thread on the FB group on someone who's very disappointed with the TR-1 performance. I suppose it all depends on how you're going to use the boat and what you want out of it. It sounded like he was expecting the same 45-50mph top speed and he was really topping in the high 30's, which for most people's use is probably fine. Also didn't sound like he water tested first, so a lot of these concerns could probably be solved by just taking a test and seeing if it runs how you want.

 

[anmut]

We looked at both in the showroom at TWL. Originally we had come in to look at a 19', then loved the space on the 21'. As we're walking through both the 21' and the 24' I really wanted the 24' due to the extra wet storage on the transom, the padded seats on the transom, 12" Connext, and the bigger bimini. However... I went with the 21' for the following reasons:

1) Interior space (tub and bow) didn't seem like it was much more at all than on the 21'. Most of the extra room you're gaining is in storage, not so much seating. The only real difference is the extension of the bench seats behind the captain / co-pilot by a bit.

2) While the 24' bimini is much nicer for shade, it's also higher for storage and, in my humble opinion, uglier when not in use. Unless the sun is scorching us, we usually keep the bimini down, especially on the cool pre-season days of WI boating. Also, I called a bunch of storage units near me looking for winter storage and could only find the one storage unit that would fit the height of the 24' boat, and it was expensive! ** looking at Yamaha's website, it appears all of the models below the 242SE come with regular towers now?

3) Power-to-weight ratio was the last factor. The 212S weighs 3598lbs and (supposedly) the 1.8's put out a combined 360hp. The 242S weighs 3713lbs with the same 360hp. Very similar until I figured in "the wife factor," which means the more storage we have, the more that woman will pack everything she can into that boat.

4) Cost - moving up another 10-12k for some extra wet storage, another 2 person capacity, and a larger (yet unproven) 12" screen, didn't seem worth it.

 

[anmut]

I just read a thread on the FB group on someone who's very disappointed with the TR-1 performance. I suppose it all depends on how you're going to use the boat and what you want out of it. It sounded like he was expecting the same 45-50mph top speed and he was really topping in the high 30's, which for most people's use is probably fine. Also didn't sound like he water tested first, so a lot of these concerns could probably be solved by just taking a test and seeing if it runs how you want.

My 2020 212S has run at 48.5 with wife, 6yo kid, coolers in the boat. 45 with a few extra people and the bimini up. 41-42ish with five adults, fully loaded for a day, bimini up and the 3x5' flag flapping in the wind. I haven't seen 50 yet, but I think with just one person and a full tank it'll hit it.

 

[Dave burke]

My 2017 212X hits 50-51 with one person. That’s at 1500 ft of elevation which has an impact.

I moved from a 19ft Chaparral sterndrive to the Yamaha. The Chap is a 5.8L 255HP fuel injected Volvo and has a higher end top speed but the Yamaha has a much better hole shot.

When I bought my boat I looked at the AR210 and thought it was good value but I didn’t want to give up that much top end compared to the Chap.

 

[agannole93]

My 2020 212S has run at 48.5 with wife, 6yo kid, coolers in the boat. 45 with a few extra people and the bimini up. 41-42ish with five adults, fully loaded for a day, bimini up and the 3x5' flag flapping in the wind. I haven't seen 50 yet, but I think with just one person and a full tank it'll hit it.

I'd be more than happy with that. This guy had an AR though so didn't have the 1.8HOs. Same boat weight but significantly under powered engines in my opinion. To each their own.

 

[Scott]

I moved from a 2008 AR230 to a 2020 212S this year. I did this so I could store my boat in my garage which I could not do with the AR230. The difference in the space is moot. Both have the same number of people and weight capacity. I loved the AR230 but the 212S is just phenomenal. In my opinion you will be disappointed in the TR-1 coming from the MR-1 engines. The 1.8's are a step above the MR-1's as far as performance and horsepower. I consistently get 48mph to 50mph with 2 adults, 2 kids and equipment. If you can swing it, I would get the 212 and not look back.

 

[HangOutdoors]

I have a 2020 AR210. I didn't want to drop the extra on going up to the next level. I can get 44 mph with two people and gear with full tank of gas. 6 people and loaded down I get 39-40. 9 People with minimal gear I got 37. We boat in inland lakes and the Great Lakes. In Lake St. Clair and the great lakes you aren't going to go 40 much of the time or it will be rough. In Inland lakes here most are a between 1-2 miles long at the most and have speed limits of 40mph. The 24' footer would been a bit better for the great lakes but a bit too big in the other lakes. We were out in Lake St. Clair getting pounded on Sunday with all the other boats out. Serious bathtub, 3-5 footers. Was cruising just under 30 to around 30 max. No issue, although my "Abs" feel like I did a thousand crunches.

You need to determine what you are going use it for, where you are going to use it and how much money you want to outlay. Once you have that, buy as much boat that fits all three. The Ar210 has a ton of room. We have a blast on it and usually have 6-8 people on board for watersports. The Twin TR-1's have no problem pulling up 2 or 3 people simultaneously and getting on plane. The gas mileage and 87 octane requirement is nicer as well.

There is no doubt that the 1.8's push the 21's and 24's faster. But for 10 - 20k more I personally didn't make the decision to do that. Additionally the more you spend the better the Trim Level and feature's.

I can get to all the same places and do all the same things everyone else can, albeit a bit slower if the conditions where very very good.

 

[WiskyDan]

Wow, thanks for all of the great replies!!!

 

[WiskyDan]

So the MSRP on the 212 is $54,000 and the AR240 is $59,000 - I didn't expect them to be that close together in price.

 

[HangOutdoors]

212 Doesn't have a tower remember. 212S does.

 

[WiskyDan]

Yup, I was comparing the cheapest 21’ boat with the 1.8’s to the AR240 with the 1.8’s. Looks like the 212S is almost the same MSRP as the AR240.

 

[biglar155]

So I'm approaching this from a little different perspective: I've got an '09 SX230 (purchased as a new leftover in 2010) that you can have when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers. I have zero interest in upgrading. Yamaha jumped the shark for me a while back. (I have a bloody tongue from biting it every time someone has an issue with the Connex system that puts them out of commission for several weeks or months waiting to have their boat fixed.)

So, that said, if you just "gotta have a new one," trust me I get it. If that's the case, then go for it! I have the same problem with tools sometimes. And guns. And computers. Sometimes I have it with vehicles.... you get the point.

But consider this: You have a boat that you obviously enjoy. You said yourself you made a "relatively low investment." So I guess I'd ask myself "What am I buying?" You already have a boat so you're not buying one of those.

If your answer is "newer" then that won't last long - hardly seems worth it.

If your answer is "better," can you quantify better? How much better? Can you make this one that much better for the same money? Less? (Personally, I take great pride in upgrading my boat and then enjoying the new functionality.)

What does your boat need to be better? Re-do the seats? Ballast Bags? Trim Tabs? Audio? Ever see @Julian 's enclosure he had on his 230? (You'd want that. As a WI boater, I sure do.) Hull scratched up? Wrap that bad boy - or take it to a good fiberglass guy. They can do wonders.

You don't have to answer to me or anyone else obviously. You only have to answer to yourself. Ultimately, if the answer is "I want a new boat," like I said - Go for it.

I'm just a big fan of the 230 series and never understood the need to upgrade beyond it. I don't see $30k - $50k of added value in any of the new boats compared to mine. I can hang a lot of cool stuff on my boat for $30,000. Hand me the checkbook and let me loose.

I also know that buying a toy that's a huge financial commitment - especially when the season is 4 months long - might sound good in June but doesn't look so rosy in December. You may find the joy of boating tempered every time you make a payment in January and then go out in July and bump the dock and add a new mark to your shiny baby.

Just my 2 cents. I know I'm usually in the minority in my contentment. Just thought I'd chime in with something to consider.

Good luck with whatever you decide - and keep us posted. You know we're all along for the ride.

 

[2kwik4u]

@WiskyDan

We went shopping for, and with the intent to purchase, a 2017 AR240. We brought home an AR190. Our previous boat was a 1998 Rinker 182BR.

We were set on the AR240 for the space, and thought we really needed/wanted it. Once we realized we could fit the AR190 in the garage, and then coupled that with how much more space there was on the Yamaha compared to our previous Rinker, it made sense for us to pickup the smaller boat.

This is our 4th season on the boat, and we're JUST NOW starting to think we would like something a little larger. We love that the 190 lives in the garage at home, it's easy to tow, cheap to purchase and operate, and has plenty of space for 8 people. We're finding the boys want to bring more friends along, and as adults, so do we. We finally have friends that WANT to come on the boat with us, so increasing the comfortable capacity a bit would be nice. 8 Adults on the 190 is CRAMPED. 4 adults and 4 kids under 10 isn't bad at all.

If I was given the choice between the 21ft and the 24ft boats.....I would go 24ft. For me, once it crosses the threshold of unable to be stored at home, I want the biggest machine I can get. The cost of ownership between a 21 and a 24 is minimal at best. Once you're over the initial purchase price, the cost to operate, tow, and store will be VERY similar, and the handling/maneuvering/etc will be very similar as well.......so why not get the larger of the two?

 

[Inthrustwetrust]

I love my 2020 AR240. I wanted to the AR210 but even at the beginning of the COVID craziness my dealer only had 19s and 24s. Two adults, full tank, top up, sea level 52mph. 5-6 adults gear gets about 47-48 ish. 10 adults, coolers, gear, full gas, 45. Lots of power. I would determine how many people you are going to usually bring. 5-6 the 210 will be fine. I’ve become much more popular now that I have a boat, regularly have 10 ish people, I’m glad I have the 240, plenty of space for people and gear. It’s only got the 8 inch screen. Knock on wood but it seems the ARs have had less connext issues than the high up models with the E throttles.

 

[2kwik4u]

@biglar155

I thought I was the only one that liked my cable steered and throttled, non-screen boat.

I really really really want that giant Bimini and improved tower on a 242X as compared to a regular old AR240. However, the rest I think I can upgrade myself into a similar boat for less money. Ballast, Stereo, Cruise Control, Chart Plotter......All that are fun, less expensive mods. If we do upgrade in the future, I think we'll get a regular AR240 for the inherent simplicity of it, and then mod the big jesus right out of it

Maybe I just need to have a fabricator and seamstress make me a Binford 6100 Bimini top, and live with the slightly less robust tower?!?!?

 

[Inthrustwetrust]

@biglar155

I thought I was the only one that liked my cable steered and throttled, non-screen boat.

I really really really want that giant Bimini and improved tower on a 242X as compared to a regular old AR240. However, the rest I think I can upgrade myself into a similar boat for less money. Ballast, Stereo, Cruise Control, Chart Plotter......All that are fun, less expensive mods. If we do upgrade in the future, I think we'll get a regular AR240 for the inherent simplicity of it, and then mod the big jesus right out of it

Maybe I just need to have a fabricator and seamstress make me a Binford 6100 Bimini top, and live with the slightly less robust tower?!?!?

I do love that giant top, I couldn’t justify the extra money for the other upgrades. Only other I thing I wanted was better speakers and I took care of that. Walmart umbrella in the swim deck table holder and a beach tent in the bow added some shade for the kids and our “tanning challenged” friends. Not as good as a giant top but $50 is a lot easier pull to swallow that a extra 12G or whatever it is for the 242.