How do you BIG stereo guys power them?

[Bill D]

It's time for new batteries. I currently have 2 group 31 batteries from batteries plus (~210 Ah). Doing the math, I just don't see how any less than 4 group 31 batteries will give me the Ah that I want. I know that there are many members here with much more powerful setups than I have, so I pose the question... How do you power them?

I have all Wetsounds equipment; 6 - XS650's and 1 - XS12 powered by a SYN-6.

 

[betterwhenitswetter]

how much run time are you going for? There are equations online on how to estimate runtime at a given wattage and voltage.

Also power regulated amps tend to produce better RMS wattage/power at lower voltage, all the wetsounds amps are rated at 13.8-14.4 volts for RMS that's a 30% loss when you are at rest sitting at the sand bar, example JL HD amps run full RMS at 12.5 volts. Since you have 6 coaxial's and 1 sub are you running a 2 sets of 4 coxial's speakers though 2 channels?

 

[Bill D]

I was thinking a minimum of 4 hours. We're typically on the water for 6-8 hours per trip. We do some cruising, tubing, and anchor up a majority of the time. The stereo gets turned on when we hit the water and turned off after cleanup. While we aren't always anchored, I haven't ever really seen a good figure on stator output, and I figure it wouldn't recharge the batteries much. I've ran the formulas, and that's where I came up with the 4 group 31 estimate.

I came up with about a 50 amp draw from my stereo (max), we don't run much else, plotter, LED's at night, bilge, etc... So most group 31 batteries say at a 50A output, they have about 90 minutes of run time. X4 gets me to the 6 hours I want.

Am I wrong about the amount of charge we get out of the stators?

 

[betterwhenitswetter]

I don't use a ACR, anything more than 1 battery will stress the stators esp... the larger AH batteries. I am have 2 house batteries & 1 starter battery, I don't charge my 2 house batteries when I am on the water, I leave it up to my Dual Pro PS3 charger to charge my house system when back on shore, I use serious juice, JL 7.7's front, 8.8's rear, Wetsounds Rev10's tower, 2 JL HD 600/4 amps on the house system, plus a 120 volt 1600 watt inverter (power a 120 pump for tubes) , the rest is on the starter battery including my LED's since the amps will dim the LED's when I start bumping which is about a total of 80 amp pull at full power.

What batteries are looking at? Optima blue top 31's are about 75 amp hours, so 3 of them will get you 225ah

also I don't think your running your sound system at full power 100% of the time, I am sure you tone it down when chillin so you not using max power all the time.

 

[Bill D]

I've looked at the Optima blue tops, Duracell's from Sam's club, Interstates, and so on... that's why I wanted to check what everyone else was using. They can all say they're great, but experience speaks louder. I was thinking of adding tower speakers, but have to solve my power issue before I add another amp. I have an onboard ProSport 20 plus charger that I use to recharge the house batteries after each outing. I could move all the small loads over to the start battery, but it's really not much current draw. The main thing is the stereo. What do you use for house batteries and how much time do you get out of them while on the water?

 

[betterwhenitswetter]

House batteries are only for sound and power inverter and I never run them at the same time, when I fill tubes I turn my sound all the way down or off to conserve power, as my 120 pump only takes a few secs to fill tubes or maybe 2 mins for a very large tube (ie floating island lol) I get about 6 hours out of my setup, I will add 1 more battery this winter for a total of 3 house batteries and 1 starter and I have to upgrade to a 4 bank charger sigh'

Sorry I updated my last thread too late, I doubt your running your sound system at max power the entire time your on the water, so that should be a % factor to add in, if your at 3/4 volume for most the time and turn it down when doing things esp... talking to each other it saves power.

It's not logical to run my system at 100% "unclipped", its just do damn loud esp for long time. Where is your sub located? is it removal, you could upgrade to larger coaxial's, I know 7.7's kill 6.5's and 8.8's destroy everything to date, and 8.8's have serious lows for a coaxial speaker.

you may want to swap out your amps esp when going to tower speakers, power regulated amps are very stable on low voltage

 

[David Analog]

In the past, the two stators have combined for 28 amps and that will take much more rpm than an idle to achieve. They may have upgraded the capacity but it's still very limited.
So to protect the stators here is what you do. Run a voltage sensing solenoid. This way you can continue to safely service the stereo bank while underway and running around early in your day with your boat's charging system. This extends the battery reserves. Once you spend a fair duration at rest with the stereo running hard, and the bank's voltage drops past a certain threshold, the ACR/VSR/VSS sensing solenoid will keep the depleted stereo bank off-line from the stators for the remainder of the day, thereby protecting the stators. The exception might be if you are underway again with the stereo system 'Off' where the stators might be able to prop up the voltage enough to keep the solenoid closed. If that were to be the case then it should be safe.
So knowing that you might be operating your stereo bank without assistance from the boat's charging system for a majority of the day, you must have enough stereo bank battery capacity to end the day while still maintaining a 12.0 V reserve (11.8 V minimum). So about 50% of the 12.7 V full or 10.5 V empty rated capacity. This will prolong the battery(s) weekend to weekend performance plus the season to season longevity.
It's easy enough to measure the voltage at the end of the outing to know if your capacity is adequate.
So as a result, you are going to be highly dependent on AC shore charging. The ProSport 20 will not be enough to service four group 31s. Two group 31s is about its limit. So you will have to graduate up to the correct size of charger.
It wouldn't hurt to think about replacing the Syn6 down the road since it is a less efficient Class AB and the only non-Class H in the Wetsounds Syn amplifier line. Go Class D if possible.
Keep in mind that most of the current draw calculators are based on DC and are wildly incorrect. In contrast, music is AC and transient by nature, and your amplifier will draw current on that basis, which is a mere fraction of the DC calculation. Your consumption will be reasonable IF a) you keep the amplifier out of clipping/compression, and b) you don't try to drive sound out of the bathtub of the boat at a high volume and away from the boat....as that is an uphill battle that sucks reserves and increases the likelihood of failed product. Tower speakers, or some other form of exterior and directional speakers, are best for long range projection a rest.

 

[Bill D]

You're right, we are rarely at full power on the sound system. Just when we're pulling the tube or wakeboarding. I'm thinking the same setup, with 3 group-31 house batteries will work good enough for us. I really don't want to have to buy 4 new batteries anyways.

Thanks for the responses @betterwhenitswetter!

 

[David Analog]

Don't be too concerned about the attributes of a stiffly regulated amplifier when applied to efficiency. A strictly regulated amplifier definitely has certain sonic benefits and advantages. I am a big fan of the JL Audio HD/MHD series. However, a strictly regulated amplifier will in fact draw more current to offset any reduction in voltage in order to maintain a consistent power level at all supply voltages. So as the voltage drops the amperage draw will increase....sucking even more battery reserves. Why? Because it is not dropping in power. So the efficiency of an unregulated and strictly regulated amplifier will be about the same at the 'same' output power level. And as the owner of the volume, you ultimate control the power.

 

[Bill D]

@David Analog Thanks for the response. I have a VSR in my setup and I know that it works, so it is safe to assume that I have a (near) full charge on the batteries when we go into "afternoon mode". You know, once you're tired of watersports and just want to relax at the sandbar or on the anchor line. I used the 6 hour imaginary number as the mark because that is the longest we have been running the electronics off the batteries. Same reason I used the max output of my system to figure my power budget.

Someday soon I hope to upgrade my amp, but that will not be until I add another and some tower speakers. I've always been a JL Audio brat and even though the wetsounds stuff sounds great, I want JL. So I see a new JL Audio system coming next year.

My charger is a Pro Sport 20 plus three-bank charger. Am I incorrect assuming that it can handle charging 3 group 31 batteries? I figured an additional battery would require a charger upgrade.

 

[David Analog]

@David Analog Thanks for the response. I have a VSR in my setup and I know that it works, so it is safe to assume that I have a (near) full charge on the batteries when we go into "afternoon mode". You know, once you're tired of watersports and just want to relax at the sandbar or on the anchor line. I used the 6 hour imaginary number as the mark because that is the longest we have been running the electronics off the batteries. Same reason I used the max output of my system to figure my power budget.

Someday soon I hope to upgrade my amp, but that will not be until I add another and some tower speakers. I've always been a JL Audio brat and even though the wetsounds stuff sounds great, I want JL. So I see a new JL Audio system coming next year.

" " "My charger is a Pro Sport 20 plus three-bank charger. Am I incorrect assuming that it can handle charging 3 group 31 batteries? I figured an additional battery would require a charger upgrade." " "

I know, I know, I know, that ProMariner states that the ProSport charger is 'distribute on demand' and will deliver all of its rate capacity to a single bank at any time, but that really isn't accurate. What is accurate is that it is a total 20 amp capacity charger max under any condition. A deeply cycled group 31 can initially draw 10+ amps in the bulk stage. Three of them in a deep cycle scenario may be too much for a single 20 amp charger. Three group 24s @ 65 A/Hs each might be fine. Now if you used the charger for three group 31s in more of a shallow depletion maintenance mode it wouldn't be a challenge. Keep in mind that this is a sealed chassis charger that is very limited in the heat that it can dissipate, and a 'value' charger meant to hit a price point. So again, you have to factor in both the collective battery capacity AND your particular depletion habits.

 

[betterwhenitswetter]

a little JL eye candy... 7.7's next to 8.8's, its a fairly large jump in size, and I use Dual Pro "Pro series" chargers

 

[Bill D]

Holy crap! There's a lotta difference there. The only thing I'm not looking forward to is putting yet another set of screw holes around the speaker holes...

 

[GTBRMC]

That 8.8 looks like a sub!

 

[betterwhenitswetter]

yup they are huge but deliver the goods it was this or a subwoofer with my 7.7's and the 8.8's won out and hit hard, as I didn't want to run a sub only amp, esp since I plan to hang 2 Rev's 10's later next year, and 2 of them weight about 17-18lbs, if you have the room to install them I highly recommend it, sadly I cant mount them up front without modify the seat and side seat cushions

Thanks guys, also I added 2 more pics to that thread

 

[Bill D]

I've been wanting to get rid of the tower tweeters and add something in the mid cabin. I think those 8.8s would be perfect!

 

[Nick Hughes]

Sorry to open an old thread, but it got me to thinking. Im planning to add the JL Audio Tower Slampak and then the interior slampak. Do i need to do anything with batteries to support either/or of these options?

 

[tdonoughue]

I'm no expert, but will offer this: I think it depends greatly upon your operating profile. Do you cruise out and float all day with the stereo blasting? Or is your boat always towing someone all day long? Do you plug into a charger every night? Or are you taking it out for week-long trips in remote places?

Obviously adding your slampaks will use more electricity. And there is only so much in the battery. And our boats charge very slowly from the magnito. More used electricity means shorter time you can go before running out--very proportionally.

I only have one JL amp and no tower speakers. But I have dual batteries and have never come close to running out. Then again, most times I am out just for the day and plugging into a charger at night. About once a year I will go out for a weekend when I am not plugged in. But on that occasion, I am also the primary tow boat in the pack, so my boat runs pretty much most of the day. So, for my setup, it works fine. But if I were sitting and floating all day with the stereo going, particularly for days at a time, I would beef up the battery situation.

 

[Nick Hughes]

No night charging available, so only what the motors can recharge. And about 50/50 float vs anchored. Sounds like I'll just need to put the system in and watch my numbers and add another deep cycle battery if needed.

 

[tdonoughue]

That is probably about right, then. You will probably wind up adding one, but that is just a guess.

But you may have a bigger problem: adding a battery only gives you more things to charge. If you are not night charging and only using what the engines put out, if your numbers are going down, an extra battery will not help you. If your numbers go down, it indicates that you are not generating enough charge during run time to replenish what you use while floating. You might want to look into a solar charger or something. Because the heart of your problem will be that you need more charge.

The extra battery will help if you are getting to full charge during runs, but then running out of juice while floating. Then adding the extra battery will give you the ability to store more charge.

(sorry if any of that is obvious--just trying to help)