installing a gas water heater, difficult?

[Scottintexas]

So both neighbors with the same age houses have had their water heaters go out within the last year. I thought I might be proactive and replace mine before it was an emergency situation.

It's gas, I'm only mildly handy, I've watched a couple you tubes, it doesn't seem difficult with just screw on attachments, no soldering, just wondering if their were any trouble spots to look out for or if it's best left to a professional.

@Betik water heaters operate the same here as in Greece?


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[Beachbummer]

I'm somewhat handy...It's pretty doable. as simple as it looks. You should replace the hoses at the same time...I recommend you use the copper corrugated connectors over any hoses. The hoses look fancier but are still rubber inside, and can spring a leak (I know first hand!)

 

[Beachbummer]

These ones that look like this are superior to any braided hose https://www.amazon.com/Copper-Water...ocphy=9027668&hvtargid=pla-584465210801&psc=1

 

[Dixie Highway]

As a former water softener installer, you couldn’t pay me enough to put any flexible connectors in my home. Even if you can’t solder, there are many good alternatives. Pro-press, even the Shark bite fittings are better than flexible. The hoses are pretty much garbage, and those copper bendy pipes will split along the thin areas in between that do the bending. A little extra time spent now will pay off someday!

 

[Zonie]

Shark Bite fittings are great and very easy to use. That's what I used when our heater went out on Thanksgiving weekend with a house full of company!

 

[Betik]

So both neighbors with the same age houses have had their water heaters go out within the last year. I thought I might be proactive and replace mine before it was an emergency situation.

It's gas, I'm only mildly handy, I've watched a couple you tubes, it doesn't seem difficult with just screw on attachments, no soldering, just wondering if their were any trouble spots to look out for or if it's best left to a professional.

@Betik water heaters operate the same here as in Greece?


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Sure they do, we invented water heaters too LOL

We replaced ours gas ones from Lowe’s last March. No issues so far. The most difficult part is getting them down from the attic.
Let me know when you are planing on doing it and I will swing by with my dad. I bet we have them both done in the same day.

 

[BigN8]

Our house is 11 years old. Water heater went out late last year. I had been paying for AMS for years, (American Home Shield). So I called them, the guy came out, said yep, you need a new one because ours had developed a split in the tank. So even though I had this coverage, I still had to pay around $875. Why you ask? Because of code upgrades the insurance doesn't cover.

So all I have to say to you is, yes you can do it, and it will be much cheaper, but it won't be to code most likely. This will only be a problem if you decide to sell the house, and inspection will reveal it needs to be corrected. I almost decided to do the same thing, but if I did it myself and circumvented the insurance I'd still need to pay for the new heater, so it was a wash when it was said and done.

 

[Betik]

@BigN8 in Texas you are allowed to the change your own water heater as long as it is your primary residence ( not rental ).

I asked here with my city and they are nazis in issuing permits. But they said that I just need to pull a permit and list myself as the contractor. It cost it is $700 for both as them as one of the unit had a dent and was on sale for $190.

AMS has been nice to me in the past, but besides the HVAC system I do not really have anything that I can justify their service.

 

[swatski]

Couple questions (great thread, BTW, thank you!)

When you guys say “went out” what exactly do you mean? Does it have to be catastrophic or it just stops heating and you get no hot water?
I’ve never had a water heater go out, but I believe mine is about 20-25 years old, now that you made me look.

The comment about the code - made me realize mine may or may not be mounted close enough to the drain...

Have you guys considered going tankless?

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[zipper]

So both neighbors with the same age houses have had their water heaters go out within the last year. I thought I might be proactive and replace mine before it was an emergency situation.

It's gas, I'm only mildly handy, I've watched a couple you tubes, it doesn't seem difficult with just screw on attachments, no soldering, just wondering if their were any trouble spots to look out for or if it's best left to a professional.

@Betik water heaters operate the same here as in Greece?


.

Are you replacing a holding tank type or on demand? There are pro's and con's for both. I have done both for hot water around the home, cheese production facility and other farm buildings, all to code, as the propane company inspects work before they put gas in the tank. Sweating a joint is pretty easy to learn, if it is clean. Flaring soft copper for gas fittings is also easy to learn and the rest is pipe thread/dope. Soap bubbles to test for leaks, not a lighter. You have the skills.

 

[2kwik4u]

If I was on gas I would ditch the tank style heater in a heartbeat and move to a tankless setup. Hot water on demand that never runs out. I'm on electric, so I can't make the move (can't get enough energy from electricity fast enough on standard 200amp service) for the whole house.

We spent 8 weeks with my Aunt while we were between houses. She had a tankless setup (in a house with 6 bathrooms) that fed one side of the house we were in. We would take 3 showers in rapid succession to get ready in the morning. About 60-70 minutes of hot water usage continuos. It was amazing that it never got cool, and never reduced flow. Such a great system.

I'm researching putting Point of Use heaters in now (because I'm electric only) where each use point has it's own continuous electric heater. One under the sink in the kitchen, one for each of the 3 bathrooms, and possibly one on the water spigot out front (for washing cars in the spring/fall with warm water). Since they won't be required to supply the entire house with hot water, and they won't all operate at once, they are a lower amperage and easier to install in an electric only house.

Another thought that might be worth looking into......Solar Water Heaters. Good friend lived in Hawaii and didn't have a hot water heater. he used solar panels on the roof to heat the domestic hot water, then blended in cool tap water to meter the temperature. This is easily the most effecient system, but it significantly more complex to setup, requires a tank for storage for nighttime hot water, and has a few other limitations. The sun delivers about 1kw per square meter, so there is a good deal of "free energy" available if you can handle the limitations.

 

[BigN8]

Couple questions (great thread, BTW, thank you!)

When you guys say “went out” what exactly do you mean? Does it have to be catastrophic or it just stops heating and you get no hot water?
I’ve never had a water heater go out, but I believe mine is about 20-25 years old, now that you made me look.

The comment about the code - made me realize mine may or may not be mounted close enough to the drain...

Have you guys considered going tankless?

—

My heater developed a small leak in the tank because the tank had bulged and split, but was very small. The only reason I found it was the water started to fill up the pan, and the drain for the pan is towards the top of the pan, so the water in the pan had suffocated the pilot light, and pilot light went out, so no hot water. This caused me to investigate and I found all the water in the pan. My heater is in the garage and drain line goes right out the side of the garage. I thought about tankless, but I've heard negative things about those when it comes to longevity. No one does the required maintenance they demand to stay efficient. Plus, I have one tank gas heater for a 3800 sqft house, and have never had a problem. On a rare occasion if I take a shower immediately after my 18 year old daughter, then I will run out of hot water. We are close to being empty nesters, so it really is a non issue when it comes to hot water.

 

[Beachbummer]

My father in law has an electric tankless heater. It draws 80 amps at 220v, and it's wired with 2x50 amp plugs , and the temperature varies by the water flow. It's not a pleasant experience. I'm sure gas is different.

 

[Betik]

tankless is great but it is on the tune of $4000 vs tank system which is less than $1000 and you can maintain/replace yourself.

Also on older homes, you need to check with real gas specialist as per all your gas outlets because the tankless systems can impact your fireplace ( like sudden fireballs kind of impact).
The other interesting thing about tankless ( at less the ones I have on my new house), is the plumber will fix the temperature at 120 degrees and they won't let you increase it.

 

[Scottintexas]

Couple questions (great thread, BTW, thank you!)

When you guys say “went out” what exactly do you mean? Does it have to be catastrophic or it just stops heating and you get no hot water?
I’ve never had a water heater go out, but I believe mine is about 20-25 years old, now that you made me look.
Have you guys considered going tankless?

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In my neighbors case, both of his are second story units and the tank leaked, one failed and the drain pan got blocked up or couldn't keep up and they ended with water coming through the first floor ceiling. The second unit was just a few weeks ago and I was walking around the side of the house and heard water running, looking closer his emergency drain outlet was putting out water, luckily the pan kept up and he had no inside damage,

The most difficult part is getting them down from the attic.
Let me know when you are planing on doing it and I will swing by with my dad. I bet we have them both done in the same day.

I wouldn't do that to you, mine is in the garage

Are you replacing a holding tank type or on demand?

It's a holding tank, I wish I could get "on demand" but I've read you normally have to upgrade your gas supply and vents,

 

[swatski]

OK I think I’ll be checking the drain and the pan real close.
I hope I can wait with a replacement, ours is in the basement and even with my three teenage daughters and their ridiculous shower habits I don’t think we ever run out of hot water. The tank does look big.

@Scottintexas keep us posted on your experience with replacement.

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[Betik]

@swatski I say you replace it now and use the old tank as extra ballast

 

[2kwik4u]

The cost of the tankless (including installation and any necessary infrastructure upgrades) is typically paid back in a few years time from both the efficiency of the unit itself in making hot water, and the lack of heat loss due to keeping a big metal tank full of hot water 24/7. The first is inherent to a tankless system, the second can be accomplished in a couple ways. One is a heat pump style water heater, these will take thermal energy from the ambient air where you water heater is located, and cover the losses very efficiently, the other method is to add 3-6in additional insulation on your existing heater.

An interesting aside, the wife and I had a smallish (1,275 sq ft or so) condo for many years. It was heated in the winter by a hot water to air heat exchanger located in the ductwork. Hot water was generated by a rather large (120gal I think) gas hot water heater. It would circulate the hot water through the heat exchanger with a small pump, then blow air across it to heat the inside of the condo. Temperature drop on the hot water was on the order of 8-10degF. We rarely had heating bills in the winter over $50 and the heat was "warm" feeling (not like the cool-ish air a heat pump makes). Really neat system called an "aqua-therm". Wish I could do that again with solar heated water and some insulated storage tanks.

 

[Dixie Highway]

I had a 13 year old water heater develop a leak in the tank itself. I researched the issue, and decided to go tankless. I have a 1 inch natural gas main into the house, which branches off to a wood burning fireplace with gas starter, a range in the kitchen, ending up at 3/4” to feed the furnace and water heater. My total BTU rating for the range, furnace, and water heater is well within the confines of a 1” line fed at 5” water column pressure in the lines. Mounted the water heater on a piece of galvanized uninstrut run floor to ceiling. I hard piped everything, gas and water feeds. New venting was required for exhaust and combustion air via 4” PVC to the outside of the house. Tankless water heaters also require a PVC floor drain, as the condensation from the heater box area must be drained, and it’s slightly corrosive. All this was done in an 8 hour day, including trips to Lowe’s and Menards for supplies. In the end, I’ve been extremely pleased with the results. Infinite hot water is amazing, especially if you have a 100 gallon soaker tub. I can run 2 showers and laundry at the same time, this is where sizing is important. Most residential units only give 5 gpm at 120 degrees F (doesn’t sound like much but really most showerheads flow 1-1.5 gpm). My gas bill is about $10 a month less since I did it. The upgrade, including parts to install, was about $1300. A straight one to one swap would have cost me about $800 (going from standard tank water heater to a power vent model). The last consideration is water quality. Hard water will scale these up in a hurry. My current occupation is in the water treatment industry, working on RO systems for Coke and Pepsi bottling plants, so obviously I have treated water at my house. I also know how to chemically clean the systems as the manufacturer (Rinnai) recommends, but this is really a non issue. Annual flushes with vinegar, that’s it.

 

[Levi Weatherford]

I had a 13 year old water heater develop a leak in the tank itself. I researched the issue, and decided to go tankless. I have a 1 inch natural gas main into the house, which branches off to a wood burning fireplace with gas starter, a range in the kitchen, ending up at 3/4” to feed the furnace and water heater. My total BTU rating for the range, furnace, and water heater is well within the confines of a 1” line fed at 5” water column pressure in the lines. Mounted the water heater on a piece of galvanized uninstrut run floor to ceiling. I hard piped everything, gas and water feeds. New venting was required for exhaust and combustion air via 4” PVC to the outside of the house. Tankless water heaters also require a PVC floor drain, as the condensation from the heater box area must be drained, and it’s slightly corrosive. All this was done in an 8 hour day, including trips to Lowe’s and Menards for supplies. In the end, I’ve been extremely pleased with the results. Infinite hot water is amazing, especially if you have a 100 gallon soaker tub. I can run 2 showers and laundry at the same time, this is where sizing is important. Most residential units only give 5 gpm at 120 degrees F (doesn’t sound like much but really most showerheads flow 1-1.5 gpm). My gas bill is about $10 a month less since I did it. The upgrade, including parts to install, was about $1300. A straight one to one swap would have cost me about $800 (going from standard tank water heater to a power vent model). The last consideration is water quality. Hard water will scale these up in a hurry. My current occupation is in the water treatment industry, working on RO systems for Coke and Pepsi bottling plants, so obviously I have treated water at my house. I also know how to chemically clean the systems as the manufacturer (Rinnai) recommends, but this is really a non issue. Annual flushes with vinegar, that’s it.

This sounds exactly like my situation I went through about 5 years ago. I replaced a 50 gallon natural gas water heater with a Rinnai 96% efficient tankless water heater myself. I had approximately $1300 in the whole project(wholesaletankless.com). I also use a 5 gallon bucket with sump pump and clean with vinegar once a year. After 5 years, my wife and I both will tell anyone that will listen, that this has been the best home "upgrade" to date. My wife could never get our soaker tub filled before running out of cold water before. Now she can fill it to the brim. Oh yeah, gas bill has also gone down significantly too.