Letting a buyer use my registration until title arrives from Yamaha - What's the risk to me??

[amccoy]

I would insist that the buyer has insurance before delivering the boat. I would also leave my policy in effect (and not tell them) until the title was reassigned. I'm mostly worried that if they caused damage above the limits of the insurance policy could I be held responsible?

 

[Ozark]

I would insist that the buyer has insurance before delivering the boat. I would also leave my policy in effect (and not tell them) until the title was reassigned. I'm mostly worried that if they caused damage above the limits of the insurance policy could I be held responsible?

Once you sell the boat it is legally no longer yours or your problem. You are not liable for what the new owner does with the boat. If you have a bill of sale and they've paid you for the boat you have absolutely no need to carry insurance on it. Call your insurance agent and they will tell you the same thing.

 

[2kwik4u]

OK, you're being pretty aggressive here, and I'm really unsure why?!? What skin do you have in the game here?!?!

Lets take it step by step;

The bill of sale is a legal transfer out of your name. You are legally not responsible whatsoever for what another individual does with a vehicle/boat/etc. that is no longer yours.

This is correct. I'm not legally bound to do anything to or for it once it's sold.

You are ignorantly spreading bad advice.

I'm far from ignorant of the situation, my liabilities, or the protections I choose to keep on myself. This all started from me commenting "I'm 100% the other way. I wouldn't drop insurance until it's out of my name. Even with a bill of sale. " I put it in quotes as it's a copy paste from above. This is what I would do, and how I would react to the situation. Everyone else can do what they want. I suppose if others look to me as an examlpe of what to do, then perhaps I'm spreading a certain level of information, however it's your opinion on if it's bad or not. If I want to send some of my cash on insurance that I don't need, it's only your interpretation of that being wasteful that makes it bad advice.

In your scenario of getting burned by the new buyer getting a DUI or not paying taxes, how exactly would you continuing to carry insurance remedy the problem?

Not scenario, experience. It's not a hypothetical, it's something I've lived through.

And to answer your question, the insurance didn't help me there, however what if the guy that got the DUI crashed the car and killed someone. you're out of touch if you think a lawyer wouldn't have come after anyone they could to find reparations, and with my name on the title of the car I promise I would have been at or near the top of that list.

By you continuing to carry insurance you are arguably creating a much greater liability on yourself.

Whats my greater liability? I'm curious to hear how carrying more insurance than I need on something I no longer own is a lability. This should be good.

If some type of incident occurs after sale, you want to have solid proof that it is no longer yours.

That's what the bill of sale is for. We agree on that front. What we disagree on is how solid that proof is. I don't make bills of sale on a regular basis. I've hand written some on pieces of paper as a "best I got" solution during the sale in a parking lot. I've also had the buyer go with me to pay of the loan at the bank, get the lien release and immediately walk next door and transfer the title to his name. Lots of gray area in between those two extremes.

Here's the thing.......You're comfortable with a bill of sale indemnifying you from potential liability. I'm not. I ride a motorcycle, some call them donorcycles and wont go near them. We each have our own level of acceptable risk, and adjust our actions in life accordingly. For me, I'll spend the small amount of extra cash to ensure financial stability in the event the bill of sale isn't airtight, and doesn't indemnify me.

If you think I'm wasting my money there, shew buddy you would have a field day with all the other shit I buy.

 

[jocolo21]

People listen, go to your dmv website you can download a state bill of sale. I have sold many thing. And sold my 2019 to a member in DTW, you are being paranois.

 

[Ozark]

OK, you're being pretty aggressive here, and I'm really unsure why?!? What skin do you have in the game here?!?!

Lets take it step by step;



This is correct. I'm not legally bound to do anything to or for it once it's sold.

(You seem to be taking this a bit out of context. While you are correct that you are no longer legally bound to do anything to or for it, you are likewise no longer legally responsible for the actions or accidents that the boat is involved with after the sale)

I'm far from ignorant of the situation, my liabilities, or the protections I choose to keep on myself. This all started from me commenting "I'm 100% the other way. I wouldn't drop insurance until it's out of my name. Even with a bill of sale. " I put it in quotes as it's a copy paste from above. This is what I would do, and how I would react to the situation. Everyone else can do what they want. I suppose if others look to me as an examlpe of what to do, then perhaps I'm spreading a certain level of information, however it's your opinion on if it's bad or not. If I want to send some of my cash on insurance that I don't need, it's only your interpretation of that being wasteful that makes it bad advice.


Not scenario, experience. It's not a hypothetical, it's something I've lived through.

And to answer your question, the insurance didn't help me there, however what if the guy that got the DUI crashed the car and killed someone. you're out of touch if you think a lawyer wouldn't have come after anyone they could to find reparations, and with my name on the title of the car I promise I would have been at or near the top of that list.

(Of course the insurance didn't help you. You had 0 liability in that scenario, therefore they had 0 liability. You are correct about a lawyer trying to come after you, as you would still be showing as the owner in the state database. A lawyer coming after you does not suddenly make you liable for something. I will again bring up the bill of sale. If you have proof that you sold the vehicle and have no ties to it, the lawyers case against you is dead in the water.)

Whats my greater liability? I'm curious to hear how carrying more insurance than I need on something I no longer own is a lability. This should be good.

(You are potentially opening yourself up for liability by continuing to intentionally carry insurance on something that you no longer have a stake in.
Example: A lawyer could claim that the boat sale wasn't an arms length transaction. The lawyer can claim you were actually renting the boat to Joe Schmoe and he had a terrible accident and killed someone in it. You, knowing your insurance doesn't cover commercial use of the boat, decide to write up a fake bill of sale to get yourself off the hook. Now, if you had a bill of sale, proof you dropped insurance, deposited funds etc. it helps to prove that the boat is truly no longer yours.)

That's what the bill of sale is for. We agree on that front. What we disagree on is how solid that proof is. I don't make bills of sale on a regular basis. I've hand written some on pieces of paper as a "best I got" solution during the sale in a parking lot. I've also had the buyer go with me to pay of the loan at the bank, get the lien release and immediately walk next door and transfer the title to his name. Lots of gray area in between those two extremes.

(Most states have a bill of sale formatted for auto's/boat's/ATV's readily available for download on the DMV website. I recommend them vs chicken scratch on a piece of paper to ensure you don't forget any pertinent information. I am not sure why you continue to question the validity of a bill of sale. If it has the proper information on it, and is a genuine transaction, then it is completely "solid proof".)

Here's the thing.......You're comfortable with a bill of sale indemnifying you from potential liability. I'm not. I ride a motorcycle, some call them donorcycles and wont go near them. We each have our own level of acceptable risk, and adjust our actions in life accordingly. For me, I'll spend the small amount of extra cash to ensure financial stability in the event the bill of sale isn't airtight, and doesn't indemnify me.

(I am beating a dead horse here, but again you are no longer liable for the boat or the new boat owners actions, or mine, or your neighbors, or anyones after you sell the boat. Have you ran any of these death riddled post-sale fears by your attorney, or your insurance agent to see if they would even acknowledge the incident? I would highly suggest that)

If you think I'm wasting my money there, shew buddy you would have a field day with all the other shit I buy.

(This has nothing to do with your financial habits. We are strictly talking about post sale liability here)

 

[Ozark]

Separate Question, I don't mean to hijack the thread: I've always been terrified to buy a boat with a balance on it through a private transaction. Aren't you as the buyer taking a risk that the seller won't pay the balance off? Are there any protections for the buyer in these scenarios?

Yes, you verify the 10 day payoff amount, issue a check to seller made out to the lienholder for the payoff amount, and another check made out to the seller for the remainder. The seller can't do a thing with the check made out to lienholder except send it in for payoff. Some sellers are skeptical about this, but I would never give a full amount to a private seller and cross my fingers that it gets paid off.

 

[Epsmith19]

Yes, you verify the 10 day payoff amount, issue a check to seller made out to the lienholder for the payoff amount, and another check made out to the seller for the remainder. The seller can't do a thing with the check made out to lienholder except send it in for payoff. Some sellers are skeptical about this, but I would never give a full amount to a private seller and cross my fingers that it gets paid off.

Thanks. That makes sense. Is it common practice to withhold the check for the remaining balance until verification the lien check has been cashed by the financing company?

 

[Ozark]

Thanks. That makes sense. Is it common practice to withhold the check for the remaining balance until verification the lien check has been cashed by the financing company?

I highly doubt you would get a seller on board for that. There is no incentive for the seller to not mail in the payoff check.

 

[the MfM]

Life was easier when everyone paid for toys with a stack of cash.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

That would be a waste of time. He just needs to give the buyer the title accompanied by a lien release.

It is not a waste of time IF the buyer would prefer getting the boat with a clear title instead of a lien release and bill of sale. Maybe you don't care if the title is cleared, and maybe it doesn't matter in the current environment, but some buyers would rather have a clear title when they purchase a vehicle. Of course, if it is a scenario where a significant amount of money is still owned on the vehicle, a clear title may not even be a choice.

Jim

 

[the MfM]

*unless you live in a state that doesn’t title toys.

 

[Ozark]

It is not a waste of time IF the buyer would prefer getting the boat with a clear title instead of a lien release and bill of sale. Maybe you don't care if the title is cleared, and maybe it doesn't matter in the current environment, but some buyers would rather have a clear title when they purchase a vehicle. Of course, if it is a scenario where a significant amount of money is still owned on the vehicle, a clear title may not even be a choice.

Jim

It is absolutely a waste of time. If you are in a non title holding state, you will hold the title in hand but it will have a lien showing on it. When you pay it off, the lender sends you a lien release. You provide your title and lien release to the buyer and they will have no issue when they go to register it. There is no such thing as needing to "clear" a title once you receive the lien release. A title showing a lien, accompanied with a lien release, is a clear and equitable title.

As far as a scenario where a significant amount of money is owed and a clear title not being possible, that doesn't make sense. It doesn't matter if $1 is owed or $5,000,000 is owed. If it has a lien it has a lien, and the only way to for the title to become equitable is to pay it off and attach a lien release.

Edit: misinterpreted the last part of your post. I see you meant that it may not be a choice if the person cannot afford to pay off the note before they sell it. One more thing to keep in mind though, if you do decide to "clear" your title for the next buyer, some states are extremely back logged on titles right now. My state is 13 weeks out on new titles. Much better to have a title with a lien and lien release than neither and trying to convince a buyer that a clear one is on the way.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

Ozark, you are certainly entitled to you opinion, and I can respect that. However, there are some buyers who would rather purchase a boat with a title that does not show a lien than a title that does show a lien. Maybe in the current environment it doesn't matter, but in more 'normal' times it might.

Jim

 

[Ozark]

Ozark, you are certainly entitled to you opinion, and I can respect that. However, there are some buyers who would rather purchase a boat with a title that does not show a lien than a title that does show a lien. Maybe in the current environment it doesn't matter, but in more 'normal' times it might.

Jim

Again, a title with a lien accompanied with a lien release is just as equitable as a title with no lien at all. This is not my opinion, this is a fact. It has absolutely nothing to do with the "current environment".

You can also run into buyers that would rather your boat be blue instead of red. That does not mean you need to get your boat painted to satisfy an unnecessary request from an uninformed buyer.

 

[Ozark]

@amccoy You need to disregard everything on this thread and make a phone call to your DMV and insurance agent for proper guidance.

 

[jocolo21]

plain and simple if you need legal advise hire a lawyer or dont sell the boat

 

[ripler]

How can the buyer insure the boat without a title? Can the buyer use the bill of sale to get insurance?

 

[jocolo21]

yes you can, ask for the vin number call the insurance and pay the premium it aint rocket science. i insured a range rover i was planning on buying before i even showed up to see it. Like i said have all the information before calling the insurance co,, I even had insurance for the 252 i was buying a whole week before i even signed the paperwork. dont be lazy gather all the information and call the insurance.

 

[mark_m]

How can the buyer insure the boat without a title? Can the buyer use the bill of sale to get insurance?

State by state title requirements are different.

Eventually the new lienholder will want to be listed on the new title. What state is the buyer?

Maryland info:

Boat Registration

An official website of the State of Maryland.

dnr.maryland.gov

 

[Ozark]

How can the buyer insure the boat without a title? Can the buyer use the bill of sale to get insurance?

You call the insurance company tell them you want insurance on it. Title or bill of sale is not needed to start a policy.