Lucky 13 ( L13 ) Anti-Cavitation Cone Install / 2016 AR240

[jmargo]

So is all 3 spacers starboard and 0 port the best starting point?

I think so. I'm still using that setting. Zero cavitation so far.

Are these settings good for the older 240's also ? The cones I would want are the L13-Yam ?
And for steering systems. The only combo that may have compatibility issues are the Thrust vector wakes ? All others are fine as long ay they are correctly installed.
Has anyone done a comparison between the wet wolf, L13 and Worx cones ? My biggest issue I am trying to fix is the speed loss as I am zig zagging with the kids on a tube. I loose a lot of speed in the turns.

 

[tdonoughue]

Water infiltration will make the grease milky...

 

[Mister Fister]

Water infiltration will make the grease milky...

It's definitely not milky. The color looks right however I can only think that water infiltration may be the issue. Not sure. I am just going to run it and check it after a few hours of runtime and see if anything changes. I think I am also going to go ahead and order some EPNOC grease just in case.

 

[grywlfbg]

Has anyone done a comparison between the wet wolf, L13 and Worx cones ? My biggest issue I am trying to fix is the speed loss as I am zig zagging with the kids on a tube. I loose a lot of speed in the turns.

You need to figure out the cause of the speed loss. If it's cavitation in turns, the L13s will help with that. You will always need to throttle up when turning as cornering bleeds speed (applies to anything with a motor really). But if you throttle up and you hear the engines spin up really quickly (I rev my engines a couple times on the lift after being out to blow out water - if you do this you'll know what the engines sound like) then it is sucking air/cavitating. If you're not hearing anything different then it could be driving style. Trying throttling up a little earlier before you start the turn.

 

[tdonoughue]

This is likely physics and not cavitation. I found this when I first got my boat required some rethinking...

Your jets are generating thrust T; going straight ahead, 100% of that is going into your speed. When you turn, some portion of that thrust (let's say 10% just for round numbers) gets redirected to port or starboard in order to turn the aft end of your craft. That, in turn, creates much more friction along the gunnel of your craft for travel in the forward direction, as it tries to turn the boat. The result is that your speed in your direction of travel drops, if T remains constant.

As suggested, the solution is that you need more T in the turns in order to maintain the same speed. Yes, there can be a cavitation problem, but that is rare. Usually it is just the physics of turning a jet boat.

 

[J-RAD]

This is likely physics and not cavitation. I found this when I first got my boat required some rethinking...

Your jets are generating thrust T; going straight ahead, 100% of that is going into your speed. When you turn, some portion of that thrust (let's say 10% just for round numbers) gets redirected to port or starboard in order to turn the aft end of your craft. That, in turn, creates much more friction along the gunnel of your craft for travel in the forward direction, as it tries to turn the boat. The result is that your speed in your direction of travel drops, if T remains constant.

As suggested, the solution is that you need more T in the turns in order to maintain the same speed. Yes, there can be a cavitation problem, but that is rare. Usually it is just the physics of turning a jet boat.

In addition you are also manually redirecting the thrust itself. The jet wants to move in a staight line, and the nozzle's job is to force that in another direction. It is like kinking a hose.

 

[eslocum]

Been battling some cavitation issues myself ('16 AR240). Typically its with a heavier load (6-8 Adults & full tank) or towing. My port pump at around 4500rpm starts slipping if I didn't hit plane yet. I then depend heavily on the starboard pump to get out of the hole. Once at plane I have no issues and can reach top speed fine. I bought Lucky13s and currently run 0Port, 1Red starboard. I did note when I installed the cones the port pump grease was much more runny than the other. I replaced what I could with new EPNOC. The cones helped a little but still finding issues. Played around with the clean-out ports with no relief. My next step is re-sealing the pump/tunnel with 5200 and see if that solves the issues. Would the runny grease indicate a severe issue causing the cavitation? Losing faith in jet drive...

 

[mrcleanr6]

The grease is supposed to be runny. It needs to ever so slightly flow when it warms up so it keeps the bearing lubed. You can make your own grease by mixing gear lube with regular #2 bearing grease.

i did alot of testing and tuning with the L13 on my waverunner. Svho fzs. Its a 90mph ski so wuite a bit went into it. I really wanted to like the L13 but after trying prob 50 different configurations combined with tweaking my nozzle and going back and forth with jerry who makes the cone, i got the best performance with the stock cone.

If you have cavitation issues then look at the condition of your impeller and the gap between impeller blade and pump wall. Make sure its in spec and the condition of the blades are perfect. Yamaha impellers kinda suck. They are straight pitch and break free pretty easy. I only did one mod to my fzs before the stock impeller became useless.You may want to switch to a solas concord. You can throw all the power you want to it and they dont break free and cavitate. They are a variable pitch so mine starts at 13 then goes up to 18. The difference is night and day. You wont get anymore speed out of it but your holeshot will be lightyears better and no cavitation

 

[jgourlie]

Been battling some cavitation issues myself ('16 AR240). Typically its with a heavier load (6-8 Adults & full tank) or towing. My port pump at around 4500rpm starts slipping if I didn't hit plane yet. I then depend heavily on the starboard pump to get out of the hole. Once at plane I have no issues and can reach top speed fine. I bought Lucky13s and currently run 0Port, 1Red starboard. I did note when I installed the cones the port pump grease was much more runny than the other. I replaced what I could with new EPNOC. The cones helped a little but still finding issues. Played around with the clean-out ports with no relief. My next step is re-sealing the pump/tunnel with 5200 and see if that solves the issues. Would the runny grease indicate a severe issue causing the cavitation? Losing faith in jet drive...

I believe it is 3 spacers port and 0 starboard and that should solve your problem

 

[grywlfbg]

Yes, what @jgourlie said. If you are still having cavitation, you need to add more spacers. Lengthening the cone increases pump pressure and decreases cavitation (at the cost of top end). Shortening the cone makes it closer to stock.

 

[grywlfbg]

Hi everyone. Wanted to give an update on this thread/mod. Yesterday was unseasonably warm but it's threatening to turn cold. I really needed a break from work so went out for a quick run.

I normally always run on single lever mode and have been very happy w/ the L13 cones getting out the hole when doing watersports. My initial install was all 3 spacers on the port engine, 0 spacers starboard, per the advice in this thread. I haven't had a chance to mess around by myself but yesterday I ran with regular levers and did a couple full throttle runs. On my first run, the starboard engine spun up more quickly. Here's a snapshot:


Looks like ~600rpm difference. Eventually the port engine caught up and both were indicating 7,500rpm and showed a 48mph top speed. However, The boat REALLY wanted to turn to port. I had to keep some pretty good force on the wheel to keep it tracking straight. It didn't do this in single lever mode. So I figured there's a power mismatch due to the spacers. I added the red spacer to starboard and ran it again.

This time the rpms came up together and the left-turning tendency was gone. Peak rpm remained 7,500.



Top speed this time was 47, but I had also filled up with fuel (and a bottle of Stabil Marine).

So in all, this looks like a winning combo for me (all 3 spacers port, red spacer starboard). I'll probably go back to single lever mode but now I feel better that the outputs are more closely matched.

 

[swatski]

Today I finally was able to attend to the pumps and service the main bearings. They have been untouched since I put the L13s on in the winter of 2016, so it goes back to post #1. Now, 4.5 seasons and 300+ hard hours later - everything seemed fine but I must admit I was anxious to see if there was any evidence of water intrusion etc. Last season for the first time I wet slipped, in a lake, but we now also run in salt here and there.

Thankfully, all looked good! The L13s are machined extremely well, and other than losing cosmetic luster on the outside, they looked pretty much perfect on the inside. It was a great relief.

The STRBD side opened, grease in perfect condition:



All cleaned up:



And packed with new grease, the new Yamaha EPOC is different color, blue-ish/green-ish, but same thick consistency (temps were in the 40s here today).




PORT side was the same story, except I run with 3 spacers in the L13 on that side (no spacers on STRBD side).


My stator segment can use some cleaning, but impellers stayed impeccable. What a difference from running in shallow river, my impellers never looked so good after a season. BTW, these are the 6CWs - OEM for single engine boats (190), I really like them for low end power.


Overall - I'm very happy. The L13s are certainly passing long term reliability test, so far, and are ready for another season.
The fabrication seems more solid and they are machined very well, as compared to the much smaller OEM cones; the L13 bases are massive and sit very tight.
Hope I'm not jinxing myself here, lol.

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[imperialxrat]

Im having some trouble breaking free the Venturi bolts and just curious if it was difficult for others, or how much force was required? I was lightly tapping the socket wrench with a hammer to try and break them free but don’t want to damage anything. Any advice would be appreciated. 2021 AR190

The way the L13 works is pretty simple. Basically, it increases the efficiency of the pump by increasing pressure and thrust.

I have previously installed and tested a Lucky 13 in a single engine 190, but it is a long thread. https://jetboaters.net/threads/anyo...ce-adjustable-pump-cone-in-a-boat.7967/page-2
Needless to say, I liked it so much I decided to get those for the new 240.

THE RESULTS
I love those cones. Have not done any tweaking or tuning at this point (here, with the new boat), just installed the cones using all 3 spacers provided and ran around a bit to see how it feels. Hard to describe the effects, but the boat handles "tighter" and accelerates better, which is due to improved pump loading. Top speed and RPM are the same, but speed can be improved by tuning the cone and the impeller/venturi. I have NOT done ANY tuning here, yet the boat runs noticeably better with the L13 (strait out of the box) than w/OEM cones.


L13s were sourced from greenhulk store Lucky 13 Performance Adjustable Pump Cones : PWC Performance Parts Those are very high quality parts. The base is tapered 3deg, but it is hard to see in the pics. It has 3-bolt base (distinct from SVHO that has 4).

The hardest part (!) was getting the OEM grease (called "EPNOC grease AP #0" or "EP") for the pump bearing. I wanted to stay with the OEM grease. After a long search found the US equivalent ("Mobilux™ EP 0") here:
https://redidriver.com/my-redi-driver-store/8-oz-ep-0-grease-for-redi-driver-free-shipping-in-usa/
View attachment 49599


INSTALL
First step -- pulling the pump. This has been documented elsewhere, but here are few quick easy steps that I follow, same/similar on both sides:
View attachment 49600
Note that my boat has the additional (port side) steering rod (from @Cobra Jet Steering LLC). A long wrench extender comes in handy to reach 4 main (also long) bolts that hold the venturi segment.


Don't loose those pesky dowels (there are 2):
View attachment 49601View attachment 49602


Note that at this point the stator (pump bearing housing) segment of the pump can be pulled out, along with the impeller and the shaft. However, there is no need to do so for this particular mod.

The OEM cone is attached w/ 3 allen bolts/washers that are reused in L13. There are notches in the OEM cone that fit a flat screwdriver for prying the cone off. The aluminum flange is soft and there is an O-ring on the inside that can be damaged, so proceed carefully, these are critical parts for pump maintenance:
View attachment 49604View attachment 49605
Here, there is no evidence of water intrusion, and everything looks fine inside this housing.


Here are the two cones side-by-side. Quite a difference in size! Note, the base of the L13 has smaller cavity.
IMPORTANT - the OEM O-ring needs to be moved from the OEM cone to the base of the L13 (red arrows):
View attachment 49606View attachment 49615


Here comes OEM grease, it is semi-liquid. I used approx. 2oz. of new grease per cone. Ambient temps are low, but even at room temp this stuff is easy to handle and not too runny.
View attachment 49608View attachment 49616


The base of the L13 is tapered and it is important to install it with the small engraved letter "T" towards the top (which will center the cone inside the venturi):
View attachment 49610
(The "top" bolt is OFF center to the left, in both pumps)


The base needs to be separated from the "cone" to gain access to bolt holes. I use a bit of LockTite on the allen bolts since the base stays in the pump. There is a small O-ring, and the spacers can be loaded and exchanged WITHOUT removing the base. This is very important - once the base is on, spacer adjustments can be made without exposing the critical pump bearing.
View attachment 49611View attachment 49612
View attachment 49613View attachment 49614


Running on single engines, each gets the boat to 30+ mph (up from approx. 25mph with OEM cones).
There is still a lot of cavitation running with one engines. The L13 can not prevent this although it does help.
View attachment 49617


Top speed and RPM are unchanged in my boat with this setup, running at about 50-52mph top. This can be further tuned, either for higher speed or better hole shot/acceleration.
View attachment 49618


Done. There will be more tuning and testing, TBA.

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[2kwik4u]

@imperialxrat My '17 had REALLY tight bolts. I ended up using a 1/2in breaker bar to get them out. The factory loctite is NOT messing around.

 

[imperialxrat]

@2kwik4u Thanks so much for the quick reply. I‘ll keep working on them and see if I can get them loose.

 

[swatski]

Im having some trouble breaking free the Venturi bolts and just curious if it was difficult for others, or how much force was required? I was lightly tapping the socket wrench with a hammer to try and break them free but don’t want to damage anything. Any advice would be appreciated. 2021 AR190

View attachment 146290

This is the new pump with fewer segments, very neat. I don't know if there is much info here on those, the bolts are totally different length, you maybe the first to crack it open in public so please take some pics fort he rest of us!

I would think good old PB-Blaster treatment, shpritz some o/n, wouldn't hurt but if they use loctite it may not help.
I would, in general, be very careful. These are not the bolts one would want to strip.

I kind of hate to say it, I really do, and not to deflect but - honestly - in your situation I would look for information also on jet ski sites, like greenhulk, and ask for advice there. They can be obnoxious; but, they usually get to test many components long before those migrate to Yamaha boats. There are also those who do fly-boarding which requires frequent venturi swaps - they would know all the tricks.

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[swatski]

I agree with @2kwik4u - using an extension bar, and the best wrenches to minimize stripping potential.

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[mrcleanr6]

funny, i just pulled my pumps 2 days ago. same style for for the 160mm 2021 pumps. same pump as my 2016 fzs but they merged the wear ring section with the bearing/stator housing. the stainless wear ring is thick and it has a plastic sleeve between the ring and the aluminum housing. it seems like it would be much more durable and resistant to swelling and corrosion. as for the bolts, mine were tight but nothing crazy. my ratchet is long handle. if you have a regular ratchet then its going to be tough. just put a breaker bar on it to break them 1/2 turn then switch back to the ratchet.

 

[imperialxrat]

The bolts came off with a little more love from the hammer, however next time I’ll just go buy a breaker bar. They’re in good shape and re-usable. Thanks for the advice there. Getting those housing off seems to be the next challenge.. it’s stuck on pretty good and have tried knocking it loose with a rubber mallet and lightly with the hammer but it’s stubborn.

 

[mrcleanr6]

The housing comes right off. There are pry tabs built into each side. A big flat tip screwdriver and it will pop right out. Look at your first pic. There are 2 pry tabs right there