Lucky 13 ( L13 ) Anti-Cavitation Cone Install / 2016 AR240

[Michael-Nash]

What were you top RPM before? Same impeller?

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Around 7700 or 7800. Same impeller.

 

[swatski]

Around 7700 or 7800. Same impeller.

That makes sense, loosing about 200-300 RPM on top with the L13 is typical.
But the loss of RPM when you take the spacers off is surprising, maybe change those in increments?
In my experience the L13 works great for improving hole shot, I stopped worrying about top speed at some point.
But as far as tuning things up, the max RPM is more consistent as a read-out, speed is influenced by so many factors and will vary somewhat any given day. RPM - a little less so.
You can play with the pitch of the impeller (bend the blades back just about 1mm on the trailing edges), of bore the venturi.
Or - make a decision what is more important, hole shot or 3mph extra top speed.

I was chasing speed just to learn more about these boats for awhile, got my old 190 to go 49mph at some point. It took a reflash (not useful in N/A for top speed), special pitch impeller, venturi, wear ring, L13, and - it took minutes to get to that speed, lol. It was ridiculous. My favorite set up was a OEM impeller with L13 w/all spacers and slightly bored out venturi - under 40mph with a monster hole shot, pulling like a mule.

I have never heard of, or experienced, loss of speed with Cobra fins so I wouldn't worry about that, but I suppose you could flip them so those come up at speed like TVs, I just don;t think it will make absolutely any difference in max RPM or top speed.

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[DavisAR195]

Went out on the water today to test out the cone. With all 3 spacers I'm at around 7600 rpm and top speed around 37 mph. When I removed all the spacers it took me down to 7500 with a top speed of 35.

Not sure why I'm experiencing a loss in top speed as I used to be able to run 40-42 WOT with a stock cone, ribbon delete and no fins. That was also prior to my 10 hour service (changed oil and filter, added grease to housing). I checked the oil level and I'm right between the high-low marks and I put the right amount of grease in the housing. Any thoughts on what is killing my top speed?

That’s crazy it should be the exact opposite.

 

[DavisAR195]

Here’s my results on a 2017 AR195

I ran two test today with the Lucky 13 installed
1st test: no spacer installed
Elevation: 50’
Outside temp: 40 degrees
Water temp: 48 degrees
RPMs: 6,600 - 6,650
GPS: 50.8 mph
Reduced cavitation

2nd test: all spacers installed
Same elevation and temps
RPMs: 6,550 - 6,600
GPS: 50.0 mph
Zero cavitation and the boat just launched, I was amazed.

Conditions: smooth water with no wind. Full tank of gas, 200 lbs passenger and 150 lbs of gear.

I was very surprised with the ribbon delete, k&n filter and lucky 13 that I didn’t see any increase in MPH. However was blown away by how the boat just launched with all the spacers installed

 

[Huv1]

I finally got a chance tonight to take a test ride since installing the Lucky 13 cone and cobra ultimate ak-19 fins. First the Cobra fins...I’m a very happy customer. The boat handled so much better it made me smile. At WOT it was extremely responsive and, yes I’ll say it, very fun to drive. I didn’t notice a heavy steering feel as others have reported. Rather it felt more like a tight sports car feel with very quick response. At slow speed I had no issue with delayed steering response both forward and reverse. I can’t speak for any other reviews or how the fins worked with their setup, but as for me and mine...definitely worth the investment. I’m not trying to sell anyone on anything, nor do I have experience with any other fins as a comparison. Just giving an honest review of how they perform for me compared to stock. Now the Lucky 13 cone. I have it installed with all three washers. I must say honestly I had no real issue with cavitation on the hole shot so I didn’t notice much difference there. My main reason for installing it was because I hated how the speed bled off in sharp cornering whether towing or not. Especially didn’t like it though towing a tube. In full disclosure, I haven’t tested it towing yet but in a run with just me in the boat it fully held its speed in sharp turns with no bleed off...it didn’t do that before the cone install...big smile #2. The combination of the cone and fins together in hard turns was very fun to drive. If it holds the same when towing, my tube riders should get the kind of ride they became accustomed to with my SeaRay from the past few years. I didn’t notice a big difference in RPM’s. Maybe dropped a hundred or so, so nothing concerning. WOT still at around 7600-7700 and top speed relatively unchanged. I don’t do a lot at WOT anyway. Was more looking for low end grunt and control which I believe I accomplished. I’ll get a better feel for consistency when I get more people and other sports activities going, but for the first run, I’m very pleased with the result. Thanks to Jeff from Cobra Steering for your help during install.

 

[swatski]

I finally got a chance tonight to take a test ride since installing the Lucky 13 cone and cobra ultimate ak-19 fins. First the Cobra fins...I’m a very happy customer. The boat handled so much better it made me smile. At WOT it was extremely responsive and, yes I’ll say it, very fun to drive. I didn’t notice a heavy steering feel as others have reported. Rather it felt more like a tight sports car feel with very quick response. At slow speed I had no issue with delayed steering response both forward and reverse. I can’t speak for any other reviews or how the fins worked with their setup, but as for me and mine...definitely worth the investment. I’m not trying to sell anyone on anything, nor do I have experience with any other fins as a comparison. Just giving an honest review of how they perform for me compared to stock. Now the Lucky 13 cone. I have it installed with all three washers. I must say honestly I had no real issue with cavitation on the hole shot so I didn’t notice much difference there. My main reason for installing it was because I hated how the speed bled off in sharp cornering whether towing or not. Especially didn’t like it though towing a tube. In full disclosure, I haven’t tested it towing yet but in a run with just me in the boat it fully held its speed in sharp turns with no bleed off...it didn’t do that before the cone install...big smile #2. The combination of the cone and fins together in hard turns was very fun to drive. If it holds the same when towing, my tube riders should get the kind of ride they became accustomed to with my SeaRay from the past few years. I didn’t notice a big difference in RPM’s. Maybe dropped a hundred or so, so nothing concerning. WOT still at around 7600-7700 and top speed relatively unchanged. I don’t do a lot at WOT anyway. Was more looking for low end grunt and control which I believe I accomplished. I’ll get a better feel for consistency when I get more people and other sports activities going, but for the first run, I’m very pleased with the result. Thanks to Jeff from Cobra Steering for your help during install.

Very informative writeup! I have had similar experience with both mods, CObras made we want to pull skiers and boarders, and the L13 was dynamite, I think I posted vids of the difference it was remarkable in the 190.

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[2kwik4u]

What's the target RPM to shoot for in these single engine boats? I've been watching mine lately and am consistently maxed out at 7350 (as reported by the digital readout under the tach). Most of the time hanging in the 7250-7300 range. This "feels" low to me as I hear others talking about 7600-7700 range.

Last week with a VERY light load (8yr old and myself, no coolers or gear, bimini stowed) we hit 43mph at 7350rpm, so I feel like the top speed is where it needs to be. Pretty consistent 40mph top speed with bimini deployed and 2-adults, 2kids, coolers, etc. Still get some cavitation on HARD corners though. Running the L13 with all spacers, sealed tunnel (last season), and ribbon delete.

I have also noticed that the boat responds MUCH better in turns if I have some weight in the back of the boat. Couple of adults on the rear bench when tubing earlier this season and the boat was exceptionally "hooked up". Steering was nice and tight, zero cavitation on turns, just a really solid feel to the controls. Normal usages is 8yr old in the bow, adult in drivers seat, and another adult near midship/glove box. This yields a far less "hooked up" feeling both in terms of traction for launch, as well holding speed/traction in turns.

Would really like that "hooked up" feel all the time. Any thoughts?

 

[swatski]

What's the target RPM to shoot for in these single engine boats? I've been watching mine lately and am consistently maxed out at 7350 (as reported by the digital readout under the tach). Most of the time hanging in the 7250-7300 range. This "feels" low to me as I hear others talking about 7600-7700 range.

Last week with a VERY light load (8yr old and myself, no coolers or gear, bimini stowed) we hit 43mph at 7350rpm, so I feel like the top speed is where it needs to be. Pretty consistent 40mph top speed with bimini deployed and 2-adults, 2kids, coolers, etc. Still get some cavitation on HARD corners though. Running the L13 with all spacers, sealed tunnel (last season), and ribbon delete.

I have also noticed that the boat responds MUCH better in turns if I have some weight in the back of the boat. Couple of adults on the rear bench when tubing earlier this season and the boat was exceptionally "hooked up". Steering was nice and tight, zero cavitation on turns, just a really solid feel to the controls. Normal usages is 8yr old in the bow, adult in drivers seat, and another adult near midship/glove box. This yields a far less "hooked up" feeling both in terms of traction for launch, as well holding speed/traction in turns.

Would really like that "hooked up" feel all the time. Any thoughts?

Those are great numbers, if you asked me. No cavitation on hard start in a single is not to be taken for granted! Your pump is working great.

As far as top speed, that is were you could make gains, if you care to chase top speed, but it will undoubtedly come at the expense of hole shot and more impeller slippage on hard starts (I would leave it alone!). There is no boost to harness, so an ECU reflash will not help there. You could start repitching the impeller, gradually bending the blades in/up, to get closer to 7,800RPM, the cylinders will start cutting out around 7,900 by electronic rev limiter, so tom go above (and possibly get some more speed you would need a reflash to move the rev limiter. Again, that would negatively impact your hole shot, and if doing watersports and pulling - totally not worth it, IMO.

As far as bleeding speed in turns, I would try Cobra fins, the new variety (super ultimate something) plus the new Fangs (mega?) will make your boat feel like it is on rails. Easy to return, too. I think I would go with ultimates, probably not Vipers(?) in your case if you want to surf? But I'm not sure.

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[2kwik4u]

Sounds like I'll leave the pump alone and quit worrying about it.

After spending a week on the water crusiing around with a guy in a tri-toon, I would have liked to have had a BIT more top speed, but not much. He likes to "cruise" at WOT around 35mph. I preferred to "cruise" around 30mph ~6k rpm. I could reel him in with WOT, but it took a bit longer than I prefer, and of course fuel burn was terrible during the "run down". In the end I still used roughly 1/2 the fuel he did for the weekend, with similar engine hours. He's running a 150hp Mercury outboard, did a bit more distance, and pulled a tuber more often than I did. I'm not upset with that honestly. You know how it is when you get two guys in boats with open water in front of them......it's ALWAYS a drag race

......
As far as bleeding speed in turns, I would try Cobra fins, the new variety (super ultimate something) plus the new Fangs (mega?) will make your boat feel like it is on rails. Easy to return, too. I think I would go with ultimates, probably not Vipers(?) in your case if you want to surf? But I'm not sure. .....

I won't be doing any surfing in my boat. It's completely NOT setup for it, and I don't want to mess with ballast. I ride the wakeskate a little, tube a little, and the neighbors are wanting to do some skiiing this summer as well. Even on a hard cut I can't pull this boat to the side like my old Rinker 182. I could yank the back of that thing around like nothing. This one is far better "planted" when cutting. I suspect the tower as a tow point helps with this since the pull is from the center of the boat, not the stern. For reference I can cut hard enough on the skate to have the back tip of my jacket touch the water when in "full lean". I've bent a few handles as well from the pull......I don't think rear end tracking is a concern when boarding/skiing......Now tubing, this is where I want to maintain my speed, and actually accelerate into the turns. This will help with the "whipping" of the tube over the wake. At this point I've modified my technique to make it work, but even a maintain of speed in the turn would be a big help.

Still think the Super Ultimate Mega Ultra Awesome Fang-O-Matics (I don't know the name either) are the way to go? I was leaning towards the Vipers because of the lower profile and reduced complexity.

 

[Lee18]

I spoke to Jerry at Green Hulk about getting a volume discount for the Lucky 13 Cone (L13). Green Hulk has offered to give a discount for JB.net to anyone that wants to buy them. It is essentially a volume discount that you can buy individually as he feels he will get enough takers.
Here is how it works. Buy it on his site for full price and write in the comments box “$40 discount per Jerry” and he will refund the $40 immediately after the sale goes through. I just bought mine.
If you have a two engine it’s $40 off each.
Lucky 13 Adjustable Pump Cone for Yamaha SHO/HO Skis & Riva Race Pump [L13 YAM] : PWC Performance Parts

 

[swatski]

I spoke to Jerry at Green Hulk about getting a volume discount for the Lucky 13 Cone (L13). Green Hulk has offered to give a discount for JB.net to anyone that wants to buy them. It is essentially a volume discount that you can buy individually as he feels he will get enough takers.
Here is how it works. Buy it on his site for full price and write in the comments box “$40 discount per Jerry” and he will refund the $40 immediately after the sale goes through. I just bought mine.
If you have a two engine it’s $40 off each.
Lucky 13 Adjustable Pump Cone for Yamaha SHO/HO Skis & Riva Race Pump [L13 YAM] : PWC Performance Parts

That's a nice forum discount!

The L13 is a must-do mod, IMO, especially in single engine Yammies.
Twins can do without unless one is pushing it, ballasting for wake surfing etc, then it is great help.

The pumps are more efficient saving fuel, but I also see it as a safety feature in twins - I can run on plane one single engine with ease, if it ever came to it.

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[Rod5]

Awesome thanks for the info!! I just placed order for 2 noting $40 discount per Jerry

 

[Rod5]

That's a nice forum discount!

The L13 is a must-do mod, IMO, especially in single engine Yammies.
Twins can do without unless one is pushing it, ballasting for wake surfing etc, then it is great help.

The pumps are more efficient saving fuel, but I also see it as a safety feature in twins - I can run on plane one single engine with ease, if it ever came to it.

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Hey @swatski I've been experiencing a ton of cavitation this year and my top speed is down about 5 or 6 mph. WOT RPM's are approaching 8k on both engines when they used to top out at around 7,200. I've looked under the boat at the intake grates for derby or obstructions several times and not seen anything nor a single nick on any of the leading edges of the blades.
So, while I'm installing these L13's, aside from looking for obvious dings in the impellers or pitting on the back side of the blades which validates the existence of cavitation, what else can or should I inspect?
Note these L13's are arriving today just two days before we head down to the Beach so I'm planning on installing them and inspecting things while down there but I won't have the whole garage with me...
Another note: the boat has almost 300 hours so what do I look for for obvious ware ring issues or tolerances?
Thanks man!

 

[jcyamaharider]

I would like at your impeller also. Mine looked perfect but wore out of spec.

 

[Rod5]

Oh that's interesting I wouldn't have thought about that... Thanks for the advise!

 

[swatski]

Hey @swatski I've been experiencing a ton of cavitation this year and my top speed is down about 5 or 6 mph. WOT RPM's are approaching 8k on both engines when they used to top out at around 7,200. I've looked under the boat at the intake grates for derby or obstructions several times and not seen anything nor a single nick on any of the leading edges of the blades.
So, while I'm installing these L13's, aside from looking for obvious dings in the impellers or pitting on the back side of the blades which validates the existence of cavitation, what else can or should I inspect?
Note these L13's are arriving today just two days before we head down to the Beach so I'm planning on installing them and inspecting things while down there but I won't have the whole garage with me...
Another note: the boat has almost 300 hours so what do I look for for obvious ware ring issues or tolerances?
Thanks man!

Sounds like the impellers are slipping! Pushing 8k RPM you are hitting the electronic rev limiters that sequentially cut off the sparks starting at 7,900 or so, so I think you may have a lot to gain from sealing the intake tunnels and/or replacing the impellers. Any gap larger than 0.03” between the blades and the wear ring is bad, if it looks like you can easily slide a credit card in it's likely out of wack.

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[swatski]

If you send the impellers out to rebuilt, not every outfit offers OD specs or charge extra somethimes a lot of money on top of the regular service if need to weld material. A new set may be less expensive, actually.

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[Rod5]

Got it thanks. Sounds like a deep dive Winter project to me.

 

[InmyElement]

Boy this forum is expensive...looks like I've found my next mod.

 

[Rod5]

I think I found the culprit and it's a bit of a surprise! I've noticed on several occasions when inspecting the impellers looking for damage that the front or leading edge of both my cleanout plugs are not flush with the ceiling of the tunnels. They are protruding too far down into the tunnel by about a quarter inch causing an abrupt square edge hanging down just above the impeller shaft. I'd been thinking they were always like that and couldn't imagine what could change to allow them to seat too far down or get slightly cocked sideways like that. The back edge closest to the blades is perfectly flush with the ceiling of the tunnel.
Also this year the plugs have been extremely difficult to remove and reinstall (yes I have taken them out every time out from day 1). Impossible to install without dousing them with Silicone spray and lots of effort to wiggle them down into place. I read about the rebuild Kit and ordered them. This weekend I decided to shave down the protruding edges to rule them out or see if by chance that was contributing to some my cavitation and loss of speed (5 to 6 MPH).

It was an instant improvement, back to topping out at 48 MPH at 7400 to 7500 RPM's vs 7,900 RPM's at 43 MPH. My rebuild kits arrive this week so it will be interesting to see if they align properly or if I will need to shave them down too. Has anyone experienced or heard of the cleanout plugs doing this??