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Minimum tow rating fo sx230

mwalker4

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I am waiting on the delivery of a Honda Ridgeline "crossover truck". It is 5000lb rated 3.5l V6. Pretty standard specs for the 3 passenger crossover. I would not worry at all about towing near 5000lbs. Especially in flat Florida. I just take it easy, don't tailgate and watch the transmission temp. Here is a good video showing the Ridgeline, Santa Cruz, and Maverick towing 4000lbs up and down a 7% grade at 10,000 ft. I MAX OUT The Maverick, Santa Cruz & Ridgeline, But Which One Wins The World's Toughest Towing Test? - YouTube
 

Jim_in_Delaware

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Personally, I don't really worry too much about gas mileage. If you drive 15,000 miles a year and get 15 mpg, that is 1,000 gallons per year - or $3,500 at today's gas prices. If you drive 15,000 a year and get 25 mpg, this is 600 gallons per year - or $2,100. Difference is this case is $1400 per year. For that, I just drive what I want to drive.

For my Ram 1500 with a 5.7L and 8 speed tranny, I get 18 mpg (87 octane) on the highway when I am not towing. I do have a 3.92 rear axle, so that probably costs me at least 1 mpg. I make up for it, however, with a 33 gallon gas tank. Ain't going to lie, my in-city mileage sucks. EPA numbers are 15, but my real world numbers are closer to 12. With my current driving, my average mpg (with 87 octane) is about 15 (lower than the EPA average of 17). Upside is my truck is big, comfortable and I can haul/tow pretty much whatever I want.

Jim
 

mwalker4

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Personally, I don't really worry too much about gas mileage. If you drive 15,000 miles a year and get 15 mpg, that is 1,000 gallons per year - or $3,500 at today's gas prices. If you drive 15,000 a year and get 25 mpg, this is 600 gallons per year - or $2,100. Difference is this case is $1400 per year. For that, I just drive what I want to drive.

For my Ram 1500 with a 5.7L and 8 speed tranny, I get 18 mpg (87 octane) on the highway when I am not towing. I do have a 3.92 rear axle, so that probably costs me at least 1 mpg. I make up for it, however, with a 33 gallon gas tank. Ain't going to lie, my in-city mileage sucks. EPA numbers are 15, but my real world numbers are closer to 12. With my current driving, my average mpg (with 87 octane) is about 15 (lower than the EPA average of 17). Upside is my truck is big, comfortable and I can haul/tow pretty much whatever I want.

Jim
I agree, we are on the wrong forum if we're worried too much about gas mileage. For me, it's some gas mileage and then a lot of what I like to drive all the time. I've never been much of a big truck guy, so I look mostly for the minimum. That's why there's different models.
 

BlkGS

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I found out that Hyundai has moved to a subscription fee to use the nav and remote start you pay for in the vehicle. I'm not about that crap, so that immediately took it out of contention. The wife agreed after I told her about that.

So the other day I told her she needed to decide between a Tahoe, a gx460, or a jeep/durango. She shrugged it off but the other day did mention she was thinking about cars and thinks we should go drive a gx460 because being a lexus it will be nice and reliable. She's just worried she will have a hard time driving it being bigger than her rogue. So I guess we're gonna go check those out this weekend.
 

TimW451

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@BlkGS Also note that if you are looking at used vehicles, features could be impacted by cell co’s turn off of 3G service. Below is a recent article, but I did read a more detailed one on Car & Driver or Road & Track recently. If I recall correctly, some Toyotas will lose remote start as an outcome. (This is not related to Subaru’s issue, which is another debacle.)


All the automakers are looking to push these features towards a subscription model. Really sucks. Resist the Borg!

I found out that Hyundai has moved to a subscription fee to use the nav and remote start you pay for in the vehicle. I'm not about that crap, so that immediately took it out of contention. The wife agreed after I told her about that.
 

BlkGS

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@BlkGS Also note that if you are looking at used vehicles, features could be impacted by cell co’s turn off of 3G service. Below is a recent article, but I did read a more detailed one on Car & Driver or Road & Track recently. If I recall correctly, some Toyotas will lose remote start as an outcome. (This is not related to Subaru’s issue, which is another debacle.)


All the automakers are looking to push these features towards a subscription model. Really sucks. Resist the Borg!
The automakers are likely going to find with a few things that people don't need to buy their new products. If they keep putting the crackdreams of wall st analyst's ahead of what consumers want they're going to learn some very painful lessons in free market economies.
 

adrianp89

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The automakers are likely going to find with a few things that people don't need to buy their new products. If they keep putting the crackdreams of wall st analyst's ahead of what consumers want they're going to learn some very painful lessons in free market economies.
Agreed. This subscription based model will really make or break some companies. BMW tried charging for CarPlay and got hit with swift backlash.

This is a great opportunity for aftermarket companies. My friend works for a large 12v aftermarket company and they are working on a device to turn on features that Tesla charges for. It is simple de-coding of the can-bus networks. Even if manufactures shut this down, other interface devices can be installed that cannot be turned off.
 

BlkGS

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Went and looked at a pathfinder and armada tonight. Armada was massively unimpressive. It had less length behind the rear seats than pathfinder, it was just taller and wider.

Pathfinder was nice, but it's very small. In a class of useless spaces behind the 3rd row, Pathfinder stands out as the most useless. Forget about putting a stroller back there, it's like, a row of grocery bags big. We would almost never use the 3rd row, but even with the 3rd row down it was maybe 6" longer cargo area than our rogue. Underfloor storage is nice, but in the end kind of useless, because if you put your emergency supplies in there, you can't get to them. The space in the back with the 3rd row down is overall probably the same as behind the 2md row of my trailblazer. For someone who needs seats, that's a win. But for someone who needs cargo space.... Not as much.

TThe interior is overall really well laid out and has lots of nice storage areas. It's attractive, and well out together. The seats are pancake flat like the body on frame pathfinder was, vs the somewhat sculpted seats in our rogue, comfortable enough though.

I will say it's a better looking vehicle in person than pictures. It's actually quite attractive in person, with a surprising amount of character.

TThis is all probably coming off critical, but it was a very nice vehicle overall. If we didn't have our rogue, I think we'd be all in. But, our dealer was asking 7500 over sticker, which puts it as more expensive than a GC L, which is better, and nearly the price of a Tahoe. I don't see how to justify the pathfinder at that sort of price point. Even at msrp it's a tough pill for us to swallow, 30 grand for a vehicle hardly larger than the rogue inside is tough. Granted our rogue has given us 75k miles of (overall) trouble free service, but we paid 28k for it 6 years ago. Even if the rogue was say, 35k new now, pathfinder didn't feel 15k more. I think Grand Cherokee L makes more sense, even with the v6.
 

TimW451

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I had a gen 1 Rogue. One of the best vehicles I’ve had. It is difficult to move up one level in a brand, as they can be so close in spec. It would be even more confusing if the Murano was still avail. I haven’t driven a GC L, but my neighbor has one and it looks real nice. The V6 is quite capable, even in the RAM, not that I did get the Hemi. :winkingthumbsup"
 

BlkGS

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The features on pathfinder were great. It had everything outside of a few niche things like night vision, massaging seats, or the rear occupant camera.

After sleeping on it, I realized the problem. When we were shopping for her rogue, we didn't set out to buy a rogue. We got a rogue because it was a lot bigger than the rest of its class. It dwarfed escape and rav4. It was much bigger than crv and the Koreans. It had more usable space than Murano because they were roughly the same size, and had a flat roof and hatch. I want to say Nissan even offered a 3rd row in our gen rogue for a while, but could be wrong.

Pathfinder is probably a bit smaller in its class. It's definitely smaller than traverse, it's smaller than telluride/palisade, smaller than GC L. So I think hat mismatch is part of the issue.
 

2kwik4u

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I think you're overselling the Rogue space to yourself a bit. It's big for it's class, but it's not as big as the Q7. Had a Razor 4wheeler in the back of the Q7 a few weekends ago, as well as 2 toolboxes, and various other "stuff" with it. I measured to Rogue to check, and if I could have got it in the opening, it wouldn't have fit side to side between the cargo shelves. The proportions of the larger vehicle make it "feel" really similar, when it's actually a good bit larger in dimensions. I'll toss the 4-wheeler in again next time we have them out, and take a picture of each.

That's not to say the pathfinder is the right fit here, or that the Q7 is. The Rogue is a neat little SUV, and IMO hits above it's MSRP. We bought it when comparing to the Mazda CX-5 and felt it was a better value then. I think anything this side of a Tahoe/Yukon/Suburban/Expedition/Armada/Sequoia is gonna be a hard sell for you. Kids+dogs on a long trip just require space, and adding tow rating really limits the field. If you aren't towing, then I would highly suggest looking at vans. Minivans are exceptionally good at utilizing the space they have in creative ways to make it extremely usuable. Kia Carnival doesn't look exceptionally "vanny".

Having had a TBSS, Traverse, Yukon, Q7, and Rogue. The SS and Q7 were very similar. SS was a bit taller inside, but depth was really similar. The Yukon and Rogue didn't have 3rd rows. The Yukon has more space than we knew what to do with, and it took a week long camping trip with two couples and the boat to finally fill it all the way to the ceiling. The Traverse was, IMO, the worst of the bunch. The space behind the 3rd row was essentially non-existent, and with the 3rd row down, the gap between the captains chairs in the second row made all the cargo slide forward into the floor on a regular basis. I'll avoid owning 2nd row captains again as much as I can. When I was searching for Durango's, one of my criteria was a 2nd row bench.
 

BlkGS

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So that's probably part of it. My yardstick and needs are a stroller. Wider or taller isn't necessarily better for us, we need the length so the stroller can lay flat behind the seats.

My wife keeps saying she think we should keep the rogue and trade the tbss for something else for me. She says we can just use the roof bag if we need extra space for her car. A Durango srt would fit the bill for me, but I have Hellcat durango in my mind in a few years. Explorer ST was nice, but I would want a weird spec without the tech package but everything else because I hate the portrait style screen. Plus it doesn't feel like it's nice enough to justify a big payment to me.
 

TimW451

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I looked at the pathfinder when it came out to replace our Tahoe. It was very nice looking and had good feature, but it felt more smaller than the Rogue, not that it really was. We ended up buying a Honda Odyssey, it it was probably the best vehicle we’ve ever had. The only thing it didn’t have was AWD, and it couldn’t tow more than a 190/195.
 

BlkGS

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I looked at the pathfinder when it came out to replace our Tahoe. It was very nice looking and had good feature, but it felt more smaller than the Rogue, not that it really was. We ended up buying a Honda Odyssey, it it was probably the best vehicle we’ve ever had. The only thing it didn’t have was AWD, and it couldn’t tow more than a 190/195.
My wife asked if I was ready to give up and get a Pacifica, lol. I'm not ready for that yet though... She keeps mentioning how much she likes the traverse. We liked it when we drove it, it was probably big enough, but it's right at the "just barely enough to tow my boat" rating of 5k pounds. I suspect pricing on them isn't terrible though, as we could get gm supplier price on it and it's msrp of 50k loaded for a premier Redline edition.
 

2kwik4u

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I'll toss the 4-wheeler in again next time we have them out, and take a picture of each.
@BlkGS I know you've already got a new Expedition, but here are the comparison pics I promised above.

Much more space in the Q7. Can't even get the thing in the back of the Rogue with the seats up.

PXL_20220415_202416213.jpg

PXL_20220415_200207443.jpg

PXL_20220415_200144179.jpg
 
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