Minimum tow rating fo sx230

[Jim_in_Delaware]

I would offer if you go with the Jeep, get the V8. Its a nice engine especially coupled with the 8 speed automatic. It is always nice to have the extra power, either for passing other cars on the highway or for towing.

In my opinion, the current 5.7 liter V8 is quieter than the engine in previous models. My 2012 Ram 1500 had a deep rumbly, hot-rodish sound. My 2020 Ram is much quieter, there have been a couple of times when I first got the truck, it was still running when I thought I shut it off.

Jim

 

[2kwik4u]

I think you'll be unhappy with the V6 anywhere if you tow even rarely.

Also, if you're going to tow, skip the Pathfinder. It still has the CVT in it and, while rated for like 6K, I have my doubts. Chassis is decent otherwise.

If you're not towing with the wife's ride then ignore everything I said

 

[BlkGS]

I think you'll be unhappy with the V6 anywhere if you tow even rarely.

Also, if you're going to tow, skip the Pathfinder. It still has the CVT in it and, while rated for like 6K, I have my doubts. Chassis is decent otherwise.

If you're not towing with the wife's ride then ignore everything I said

The new pathfinder has a 9 speed auto, no more CVT. That's why it's under consideration actually, the CVT in our rogue has been "fine", but I wouldn't want to tow with it or anything like that.

It probably makes sense to get the V8 in Grand Cherokee. It's an inexpensive option, is a lot more power, and frankly probably gives back more than it's cost in resale long term. I doubt it hurts fuel economy that much in the real world in a 5500 pound vehicle or whatever it weighs.

Briefly look at a q7 today. Wife said "that isn't any bigger than my Rogue". I said "well it's got 3 rows so it should be". Specs say it's 16" longer than her rogue, but after seeing it in person, I'd say a lot of that was hood length. Makes sense, they can fit a v8 pointed forward in the engine bay vs her 4 banger mounted to the side. The jeep is like 5 inches longer than the q7, but I'm sort of surprised she didn't think it was the same size as her rogue.

She still like palisade the most. I can understand why, it was super nice, felt premium, drove great, awesome warranty... I could probably get over the styling in time. Just, only tows 5k pounds. And the tow hitch looks like crap on it.

 

[Beachbummer]

I liked the telluride styling more, but zero availability and discounts in my area. Found a well priced new 4wd Pilot, so after 14 years with the current one, I hope the new one does nearly as well. Near the limit for towing, does not tow "easy" but we tow infrequently enough, and drives really nice otherwise, and seats 8.

I just cannot justify the added expense and size of the next size up (probably an expedition for us) to still sit 8. The pilot is the one that comes closest to checking all the boxes.

 

[2kwik4u]

The new pathfinder has a 9 speed auto, no more CVT. That's why it's under consideration actually, the CVT in our rogue has been "fine", but I wouldn't want to tow with it or anything like that.

It probably makes sense to get the V8 in Grand Cherokee. It's an inexpensive option, is a lot more power, and frankly probably gives back more than it's cost in resale long term. I doubt it hurts fuel economy that much in the real world in a 5500 pound vehicle or whatever it weighs.

Briefly look at a q7 today. Wife said "that isn't any bigger than my Rogue". I said "well it's got 3 rows so it should be". Specs say it's 16" longer than her rogue, but after seeing it in person, I'd say a lot of that was hood length. Makes sense, they can fit a v8 pointed forward in the engine bay vs her 4 banger mounted to the side. The jeep is like 5 inches longer than the q7, but I'm sort of surprised she didn't think it was the same size as her rogue.

She still like palisade the most. I can understand why, it was super nice, felt premium, drove great, awesome warranty... I could probably get over the styling in time. Just, only tows 5k pounds. And the tow hitch looks like crap on it.

Didn't realize the new Pathfinder went to a traditional automatic again. That's a big check in the "good" column.

The Q7 feels smaller than it is on the inside. You're right, some of it is the hood, but there is considerably more space behind the 2nd row in the Q7 as compared to the Rogue. Have both in the driveway, and the Rogue hatch feels really cramped and tiny compared to my Q7. For example. We've been buying 40gal totes to organize the basement. One each trip to Sams we make. The easily fit "longways" in the back of my Q7, with room to spare for other things beside them. In her '19 Rogue, it barely fits "sideways" behind the second row, and there is no room for anything else.....With that said, the Q7 is going to feel really small compared to some of the others you've been looking at. I would wager it's a proximity/time comparison. Either way, if it's out it's out. Wife HATED how wide our ''03 Yukon was, to the point she would tell everyone who would listen how much she would have loved it if it was just a little narrowed. Test drove her '10 Traverse and she "Loved how much slimmer it is".......by the books, the Traverse was 1/4in WIDER than the Yukon. There was no convincing her though. Sometimes facts don't matter, and if you aren't happy with something, it just isn't the right answer.

I think there are very few occasions where one shouldn't get the highest power available for a particular model. In the case of the V8 vs V6 in the Jeeps. The V8 won't return appreciably worse fuel economy, but you'll use the power more often than you think. Total cost of ownership difference is negligible, and you get to use the additional power.

You need to hide the badges on a Durango and get her to sit inside and drive it. I think she'll be pleasantly surprised if she can get past the brand hate for whatever reason.

 

[mwalker4]

Didn't realize the new Pathfinder went to a traditional automatic again. That's a big check in the "good" column.

The Q7 feels smaller than it is on the inside. You're right, some of it is the hood, but there is considerably more space behind the 2nd row in the Q7 as compared to the Rogue. Have both in the driveway, and the Rogue hatch feels really cramped and tiny compared to my Q7. For example. We've been buying 40gal totes to organize the basement. One each trip to Sams we make. The easily fit "longways" in the back of my Q7, with room to spare for other things beside them. In her '19 Rogue, it barely fits "sideways" behind the second row, and there is no room for anything else.....With that said, the Q7 is going to feel really small compared to some of the others you've been looking at. I would wager it's a proximity/time comparison. Either way, if it's out it's out. Wife HATED how wide our ''03 Yukon was, to the point she would tell everyone who would listen how much she would have loved it if it was just a little narrowed. Test drove her '10 Traverse and she "Loved how much slimmer it is".......by the books, the Traverse was 1/4in WIDER than the Yukon. There was no convincing her though. Sometimes facts don't matter, and if you aren't happy with something, it just isn't the right answer.

I think there are very few occasions where one shouldn't get the highest power available for a particular model. In the case of the V8 vs V6 in the Jeeps. The V8 won't return appreciably worse fuel economy, but you'll use the power more often than you think. Total cost of ownership difference is negligible, and you get to use the additional power.

You need to hide the badges on a Durango and get her to sit inside and drive it. I think she'll be pleasantly surprised if she can get past the brand hate for whatever reason.

The cheapest Grand Cherokee that can be had with a V8 now is a $57k Trailhawk. Dang nice vehicle. IMO, the 116 inch wheelbase is a bit short for going over 5,000lb without swaybars.

 

[BlkGS]

You have no idea how badly I wish I could convince her on a Durango. Seriously, we could go get a loaded r/t for mid 50k range and be done with it, have all the towing we'd ever need, all the space we'd need, a reliable vehicle, and while it wouldn't be cutting edge, it'd have all the tech we really need, plus roof cents for car seats. For like, slightly more than a palisade, but a lot more vehicle. Frankly, I think if I actually got her into one and had her drive it, she'd love it. She just has bad memories of ghetto rental Avengers and crap like that from her college job.

I did say something about "well what if we got something that'd be my car but you'd drive it until I need to replace the tbss" and she seemed not immediately turned off by the idea. This seems like my best opening for getting her to at least TRY a Durango that I've had. Then eventually I just won't take her Durango and will get myself a Durango hellcat or something lol.

 

[2kwik4u]

You have no idea how badly I wish I could convince her on a Durango. Seriously, we could go get a loaded r/t for mid 50k range and be done with it, have all the towing we'd ever need, all the space we'd need, a reliable vehicle, and while it wouldn't be cutting edge, it'd have all the tech we really need, plus roof cents for car seats. For like, slightly more than a palisade, but a lot more vehicle. Frankly, I think if I actually got her into one and had her drive it, she'd love it. She just has bad memories of ghetto rental Avengers and crap like that from her college job.

I did say something about "well what if we got something that'd be my car but you'd drive it until I need to replace the tbss" and she seemed not immediately turned off by the idea. This seems like my best opening for getting her to at least TRY a Durango that I've had. Then eventually I just won't take her Durango and will get myself a Durango hellcat or something lol.

Rent a Durango for a week to go on vacation. Tell her you reserved something else and this is all they had

Just kidding, don't lie to your wife.......But do rent a Durango for a week. If she hates it, meh, you tried and it didn't cost you much.

 

[dgfreeze]

FWIW, my wife was adamantly against a durango also, but we have a small garage, and it was one of the few suv's that actually fit, had the towing capacity I deemed necessary, and was in our price range. She finally agreed to one, and we got a 2019 Durango R/T. We've had it now almost two years, and she loves it. I'm not saying that's always going to be the case for other people, but they are a good vehicle with a surprising amount of amenities for a fair price. If you're able to get her to test drive one with an open mind, I'm guessing she would at least modify her opinion of them.

PS, I'm not a Dodge homer, it was just the vehicle that made the most sense to get, and I had an uphill battle just getting her to try one. After the test drive, she came around. Now, she loves her 'Rango.

 

[2kwik4u]

@BlkGS

 

[BlkGS]

Honestly, 24 highway is super disappointing vs the others. My 5.0 f150 did that with the 6 speed auto. I get this has 500tq, but meh, I think I was expecting more for a hybrid tubo v6. I feel like a 5.3 Tahoe gets that. Let alone a babymax...

I think if Toyota had stuck with the 5.7, or even downside it to another 4.7 or something, we'd be very interested. But with a hybrid turbo v6 only doing 24 highway... Kinda lame.

 

[2kwik4u]

5.3 Tahoe will be happy to crack 20. I've had 2 5.3L powered fullsize vehicles, a Yukon and a Sierra. One with a 4spd the other with a 6spd, the Sierra had cylinder deactivation as well. Neither broke 20 on the highway when empty/lightly loaded. 3.0L Duramax will get you there, but I'm not sure what other full size SUV will. TTV6 Expedition won't. Durango won't. Only time I see close to that in my Q7 is if I keep it below 65 on my morning commute, long distance road travel is closer to 21 with cruise set at 80.

I think 24 highway is pretty damn good for something this size/shape. I'm betting the Sequoia is closer to 20-21 in real world highway use. The EPA highway cycles are not really accurate for highway travel any more IMO. These big SUVs are just giant heavy brick shaped things. Aero and weight are not on the fuel mileage helping side......oughta ask @swatski about fuel mileage in his Land Cruiser

We've known for a long time that hybrids shine in city traffic where they can turn off the ICE and do stop and go on battery alone. The constant power draw of highway driving gives little to no advantage to a hybrid power train.

I know you're not an EV fan, but a used Tesla ModelX is in the $70k range now, and checks just about every box you're looking for. Here's a Turo listing for a ModelX in Melbourne for $125/day to try ....joking.....but only slightly so

Also, there are several Durangos on Turo near you as well.....just saying.

 

[BlkGS]

The 24mpg number I think was for the Tundra, so the Sequoia will lily be a little lower than that to start with, from added weight.

I'm surprised by your comments. My 12 grand cherokee 5.7 4x4 did 24 to 25 pretty consistently... With the old 5 speed, not even the newer zf8. It didn't do that at 85mph, but at 70 to 75, 23 was easy, at 65 to 70 mph, 25 was a walk in the park. I can honestly say I've never NOT exceeded EPA highwau numbers. City is a different story, and their ratings for turbocharged vehicles are WILDLY optimistic in my experience, but highway is usually 1 to 2 mpg lower than what I see in an NA vehicle. So I figured I'd be able to get that in a hemi dura go pretty easily. Hell, my TBSS with 4.10s and a 4 speed auto does 20mpg highway, with no fuel economy wizardry like AFM or anything, lol.

I'm not anti EV, they just won't work for our use. We drive to NC and NY on long drives we kind of hate already. Unless they get EV charging to be full range in 3 to 5 minutes, they're just not viable for us. The diesel Tahoe is actually challenged there a little as well, as not every gas station we stop at has diesel, especially the further north we go. Not to mention it seems like the further north you go the more it's taxed. FL diesel is like the same as regular, slightly more. In NC, it's slightly more than premium. The one time we looked in NY, it was way more than premium.
Also, every time we discuss cars now, the wife says "I really liked the palisade", lol.

 

[mwalker4]

The Grand Cherokee V8 epa is 14 city/22 Highway. Your experience may vary. Hybrids do not help Highway mileage very much so if you drive mostly Highway. It's not worth it.

 

[BlkGS]

The Grand Cherokee V8 epa is 14 city/22 Highway. Your experience may vary. Hybrids do not help Highway mileage very much so if you drive mostly Highway. It's not worth it.

My wife does MAYBE 30 miles a week on a busy week, all city. However, weekends we frequently go out to Orlando, which is ~100 miles all highway, and the whatever time on i4 which is a parking lot.

Honestly, the vast majority of miles she puts on are from long distance trips. Big reason I've been leaning towards the diesel.

 

[Beachbummer]

Where's the v8? I think this is true end of land cruiser as a "tank" that runs 20+ years with minimal repairs. Way too complicated.

I think in the next 10-20 years we'll see an electric one that will restore eternal reliability. But this one, turbo v6, appears a great compromise where multi decade reliability is the loser.

But who keeps these for decades anymore... I'm behind the times.

 

[2kwik4u]

My TBSS never broke 18mpg. Even on road trips in the 70-75mph cruise range. I drove the SS home from Winnipeg. Best I got on that LONG road trip was 17mpg. Had the leg through North Dakota (no speed limit) return me under 10, but there's a clear reason there. Dad drove from Louisville to El Paso in the Yukon. Never returned higher than 19 for him, and he drives like super grandpa level slow, and the only thing in the truck was him, his suitcase, and a couple of Chihuahua's. Heck, even my '12 Focus was rated at 28/38, and I never saw north of 36 with it. Around town it didn't care how I drove it. Beat it like a rented mule, or treat sweet and soft, it returned 32mpg in a mixed city/highway use.

Wondering if the pancake flat FL terrain might be helping your mpg numbers? We don't have much elevation here (compared to say the Rockies), but you're rarely on flat ground. It's always up or down at some magnitude. I'm not sure I ever get EPA rated numbers, much less beat them. Even when treating the vehicle nicely.

If you're wanting long range with low fillups, a small diesel is the way to go. Maybe a slightly older Grand Cherokee with the EcoDeisel in it? Smaller than the Tahoe/Yukon, but still has those long legs you're looking for. We can't go that far between stops anymore. Between the wife, the dog, and the toddler we're stopping every 200-300mi anyway, so any more range than that is a waste. Once we corral everyone, get shoes on, get into the store to pee, take the dog for a quick walk to pee, refuel, and get resituated in the car, we're there 15-20min. I've given up on "making time" at much any level on long road trips. Unless it's just me and the 10yr old, then we hammer down and don't stop for anything buy gas. If we have the boat, or the whole fam damily, it's much more difficult.

 

[mwalker4]

My wife does MAYBE 30 miles a week on a busy week, all city. However, weekends we frequently go out to Orlando, which is ~100 miles all highway, and the whatever time on i4 which is a parking lot.

Honestly, the vast majority of miles she puts on are from long distance trips. Big reason I've been leaning towards the diesel.

Makes sense. Does diesel carry a big price per gallon premium in Florida? In Ohio diesel runs at least 40 cents per gallon higher than 87 octane unleaded. Between that and the exhaust fluid, the diesel cost per mile advantage is really reduced or eliminated. But its a great engine for towing. On another topic, I went to UF in the 80's with a roommate from Melbourne. I bet that drive has changed a bit in the last 40 years Also, I hate driving through Orlando on I-4. I usually take the 417 Greenway even if I have to pay and its longer from a miles stand point. Keeps the blood pressure lower.

 

[BlkGS]

Makes sense. Does diesel carry a big price per gallon premium in Florida? In Ohio diesel runs at least 40 cents per gallon higher than 87 octane unleaded. Between that and the exhaust fluid, the diesel cost per mile advantage is really reduced or eliminated. But its a great engine for towing. On another topic, I went to UF in the 80's with a roommate from Melbourne. I bet that drive has changed a bit in the last 40 years Also, I hate driving through Orlando on I-4. I usually take the 417 Greenway even if I have to pay and its longer from a miles stand point. Keeps the blood pressure lower.

Yeah we have started taking the tolls roads through Orlando, lol. Costs money but saves time.

Diesel is a bit more than regular here, also seems to fluctuate in price a little less. In NC it was as expensive if not a little more than premium. Not super economical then.

That's a big part of why I keep looking at regular v6 crossovers too. Regular gas makes up for a good bit of the efficiency trade off.

 

[AZMark]

Honestly, 24 highway is super disappointing vs the others. My 5.0 f150 did that with the 6 speed auto. I get this has 500tq, but meh, I think I was expecting more for a hybrid tubo v6. I feel like a 5.3 Tahoe gets that. Let alone a babymax...

I think if Toyota had stuck with the 5.7, or even downside it to another 4.7 or something, we'd be very interested. But with a hybrid turbo v6 only doing 24 highway... Kinda lame.

I have the 5.7 in my land cruiser and I get about 15, drops into single digits when towing in the hills. It’s a great engine but awful for mileage.