MR1 ECU or injector or something else?

[marvster]

I need some help from the all-knowing jetboater council...

We were out on the water 2 weeks ago and both motors were running great. We were in the intracoastal waterway with multiple areas to go fast, then bridge slow zones, then fast again. Stopped at an area to take a dip and all was good. The way back started with quite a large slow zone. Then it opened up again.

All of a sudden I feel and hear that something is up. Port motor sounds and feels like its bogging real bad, and RPMs have dropped to 4-6k compared to 7-8k of the starboard motor. Slow down near a bridge and smell some fuel but thought it was other boats around us (very busy that day on the water). So I pulled off to the side thinking maybe something is caught in the impeller. Turn both motors off, check the cleanouts, nothing there. Try to start both motors, port side won't start. Nadda, zip. Had to limp it back on 1 motor for ~3 miles, not fun at all.

So got it home and checked it the next day. Port motor did start no problem, but still bogging really bad. Ran it on the garden hose and there was gas slick coming out of the exhaust. Strong smell. So 3 weeks ago did an oil change like I've done for the past 10 years and thought maybe overfilled it. Turns out it was WAY over F mark (1/4" above F cold), very thin, smelled like gas.

So reading all of the great info on this forum (@bronze_10 , @Scottintexas , @Beachbummer, and many others), I thought I had the dreaded ECU/injector issue. This weekend i hooked up the YDS, ran the injector buzz/click test and ALL injectors clicked!! Thought for sure 1 would not click but they ALL did! However, my son claims the #3 sounded like the clicking may just have been slightly more muffled than the others...his hearing is probably better...;-)

So....what could cause gas in the exhaust, high gassy oil level, but all injectors clicking??

Really appreciate any help!!

 

[Jeremiah]

This is DEFINITELY an Ecu issue. This guy can fix it for about $500. +1 (916) 799-4327. info@regulatorrectifier.com

My situation was the same with loss of rpm, fuel in oil and strong smell of gas.
Don’t stress too much. It’s really not that big of a deal. Just make sure you change the oil a few times after you fix the Ecu.

 

[buckbuck]

I would agree. But you may want to also pull the injectors and have them sent out to be cleaned. I have used a guy in TX. I think it is "RX Injector".

 

[bronze_10]

When mine did it the I jector would still click but it wouldn't open and close all the way... so under 8k it was way over fueling... if u wanna be certain swap ecus and put it back in the water.

 

[marvster]

So I'm struggling with why the ECU could still be the culprit if the injectors are all still activating with the YDS test? Since the ECU's historically seem to fail and keep the injectors wide open with solid 12V, is the theory that one of my ECU ports is "almost" fully failed and injector "mostly" open but still able to make a clicking sound?

@bronze_10 So what is the trick to get the fuel rail/line disconnected? it seems to have 2 diff types of clamps, where 1 needs a special tool of some kind? your pick even shows a regular screw clamp replacement. Does that mean you have to destroy original clamp to get it off? Also, why did you opt to get Walmart injectors vs getting original (expensive) ones cleaned? Are they Bosch injectors?

@Jeremiah Thanks! i've sent them an email to get the process going! At least for a test!

 

[Gym]

It's possible your injectors are dirty. I would change oil to get the viscosity back to normal. Then add a can of Sea Foam or some other injector cleaner to your gas tank before going through the other expensive processes.

 

[bronze_10]

So I'm struggling with why the ECU could still be the culprit if the injectors are all still activating with the YDS test? Since the ECU's historically seem to fail and keep the injectors wide open with solid 12V, is the theory that one of my ECU ports is "almost" fully failed and injector "mostly" open but still able to make a clicking sound?

@bronze_10 So what is the trick to get the fuel rail/line disconnected? it seems to have 2 diff types of clamps, where 1 needs a special tool of some kind? your pick even shows a regular screw clamp replacement. Does that mean you have to destroy original clamp to get it off? Also, why did you opt to get Walmart injectors vs getting original (expensive) ones cleaned? Are they Bosch injectors?

@Jeremiah Thanks! i've sent them an email to get the process going! At least for a test!

So when mine stuck it didnt stick wide open.. it stuck at about 80%. If I pushed the engine much over 8500 rpm it would start to loope due to not having enough fuel... anything less than 8500 and it was over fueling. But while coming back from bimini there were times where it responded and worked normal... then back to stuck.

When I looked up tha part number walmart had some over stock they were trying to get rid of. The exact same yamaha. However the ones I took out tested fine.. it was the ecu repair that failed so it was another ecu removal and send off.

I dont fully remember how I took out the fuel rail but I do remember that to get it out tit was easier to remove the bolts that hold that whole plastic box that the fuel rail sat in and set it on a work bench to finish removing it. onelce I removed the entire assembly it was easy. The clamp I thinh u r talking about if the fuel line going into the fuel rail? If so I just cut it off and used a hose clamp when i reinstalled it.

It could be a bad injector but I know now that is almost unheard of in these engines.

 

[bronze_10]

I remember that once I realized I needed to take out the 6 or 8 bolts that hold that fuel rail assembly in, it was much much simpler to handle. The bolts screw I to the top of the intake. U will need to place rags in the hold to keep stuff from falling in.

 

[Bogus]

I need some help from the all-knowing jetboater council...

We were out on the water 2 weeks ago and both motors were running great. We were in the intracoastal waterway with multiple areas to go fast, then bridge slow zones, then fast again. Stopped at an area to take a dip and all was good. The way back started with quite a large slow zone. Then it opened up again.

All of a sudden I feel and hear that something is up. Port motor sounds and feels like its bogging real bad, and RPMs have dropped to 4-6k compared to 7-8k of the starboard motor. Slow down near a bridge and smell some fuel but thought it was other boats around us (very busy that day on the water). So I pulled off to the side thinking maybe something is caught in the impeller. Turn both motors off, check the cleanouts, nothing there. Try to start both motors, port side won't start. Nadda, zip. Had to limp it back on 1 motor for ~3 miles, not fun at all.

So got it home and checked it the next day. Port motor did start no problem, but still bogging really bad. Ran it on the garden hose and there was gas slick coming out of the exhaust. Strong smell. So 3 weeks ago did an oil change like I've done for the past 10 years and thought maybe overfilled it. Turns out it was WAY over F mark (1/4" above F cold), very thin, smelled like gas.

So reading all of the great info on this forum (@bronze_10 , @Scottintexas , @Beachbummer, and many others), I thought I had the dreaded ECU/injector issue. This weekend i hooked up the YDS, ran the injector buzz/click test and ALL injectors clicked!! Thought for sure 1 would not click but they ALL did! However, my son claims the #3 sounded like the clicking may just have been slightly more muffled than the others...his hearing is probably better...;-)

So....what could cause gas in the exhaust, high gassy oil level, but all injectors clicking??

Really appreciate any help!!

Check Air filter Do you have any oil in it? If it does this could be because you overfilled engine with motor oil.

 

[marvster]

So (916) 799-4327. info@regulatorrectifier.com , who are also Carmo Electronics said i get it to them by tomorrow 6/25 it will get repaired this batch. If not i have to wait until 7/9....guess I have some time to investigate the injectors and replace the oil! So it gets there by 7/9, gets repaired week of 7/13, sent back week of 7/20 and maybe reinstall by 7/25...dang!

So for the ECU removal, any tips, pics, tricks to get it out by myself? My kids had the nerve to go off to college! Carmo said they test ECU first. Guess I could wait to hear their answer before digging into the injectors....but summer is speeding by!!

I tend to agree that injectors "sort of going bad" is less likely than the ECU based on others' comments. Also the injectors have screens which can get clogged but that would block fuel, not free-flow it. However, taking them out will allow me to check for impedance (open not likely based on YDS) and clean them I guess with carb cleaner and a battery...Walmart does still have them! But it says 2007-2008, Mine is 2005 but I don't think that matters as the PN is the same.

@bronze_10 I attached a pic of the clamp with OET on it. Found a Youtube vid with good info on that fuel line clamp. Its an Oetiker ear crimp pinch cinch clamp common for fuel lines. (I learned something new!) However, they are one-and-done clamps so I'd also have to use a screw clamp or buy a replacement clamp. Next is once the throttle body is out, the manual says new o-ring and gaskets are needed for the injectors. Where did you get those?

 

[Beachbummer]

It's the ECU for sure. If you want to confirm without buying any injectors you can live test them on the rail. with the rail not bolted to the engine. I bet you will see it open and leaking, and if you swap injectors from to spot spot it will still be open. I would consider ordering a new one and then selling you repaired one, or keeping it. otherwise you are going to lose a bunch of weekends.

I was hunting a ghost for a while because I swapped impellers from one engine to the other, ended up removing injectors to troubleshoot. Not that hard, but worth it to watch some youtube. The manual was not as helpful as I expected. It's not an intuitive job, fewer bolts have to come off than you think. No more than 2 hours I don't think to watch the injectors operate and swap them from one spot to the next.

Also, If you open your ECU box and it's full of water, that's another clue. The ECU is likely your problem. Worth doing. Best of luck!

 

[bronze_10]

The o rings came with the injectors..

 

[dgfreeze]

Do yourself a favor, and use the crimp style clamp. I hate using screw style hose clamps on hoses that small. They tend to chew up the hose, and don't create an even squeeze all around, due to the size of the screw body (relative to the band). I've just had enough times that those style clamps have given me problems, especially in EFI applications.

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[marvster]

I'm glad to hear more reassurance that its most likely the ECU causing my pain... But the little voice says you better check those injectors just in case also.

@Beachbummer So now I'm curious! How do I test the injectors still on the rail using the ECU? What about remove the throttle body, disconnect the fuel rail with injectors still connected, reconnect rail to the engine fuel line, disconnect the helm safety lanyard so the plugs/ignition doesn't fire, connect YDS, bump starter to turn on the ECU (concerning part with port open, possible fuel in cylinders, have to guarantee no spark), then run fuel pump test to pressurize line while holding rail over a pan. Should show leaking injector? Is this how you did it?

So did you also replace the o-ring and grommet? Manual says not reusable..



@dgfreeze Thanks for the link! Exactly what I was thinking! got those in the amazon cart! Along with some hose clamp pliers for getting off some rusted cooling hose clamps

 

[Beachbummer]

Because your injector is leaking I think it will leak even with the engine not running. As soon as you lift the throttle body you might see it leak. I would risk pointing the body to a bucket or cloth and turn engine over a few times to see what happens. I ended up replacing the whole injectors to troubleshoot but that wasn't the issue for me, so it made no difference.

 

[bronze_10]

When I took out my injectors they altered with in spec. But I put my new ones in anyway. Then went to the ecu where I should have started in the first place.

 

[marvster]

From the way it sounds, some may have had slightly less than optimal performing injectors (and got a better spray pattern after cleaning) but I haven't heard of many conclusive "bad" injectors...I think I'll start with the ECU removal and decide from there about tackling the injectors...may depend on south florida afternoon storms LOL...

 

[Ruikee]

I just went through the same evolution. Bronze_10 helped me out. My mechanic told me it was the injectors, my gut said ECU. Pulled the injectors and sent them off, Thorough injector company said they were excellent as old as they were. Got them a little better and he runs them through the ringer. Sent the ECU off to Carmo. ended up taking 3 weeks longer than expected. I wanted to get the boat on the water, I found a complete HO ignition box and wires on eBay for 425 shipped. So I bought it. Had already reinstalled the injectors, Takes about 30 min once you realize how it came out. Installed EBAY ecu and it runs like a champ. Received the carmo one back repaired so I have an extra. And yes once it is all good and before you run the first time, change the oil, then several times after to get most of the gas out of the oil.

 

[Ruikee]

Send them off, only $17 per and I had them back in 5 days. injectorrepair.com give you all the data of the tests once he is done.

I'm glad to hear more reassurance that its most likely the ECU causing my pain... But the little voice says you better check those injectors just in case also.

@Beachbummer So now I'm curious! How do I test the injectors still on the rail using the ECU? What about remove the throttle body, disconnect the fuel rail with injectors still connected, reconnect rail to the engine fuel line, disconnect the helm safety lanyard so the plugs/ignition doesn't fire, connect YDS, bump starter to turn on the ECU (concerning part with port open, possible fuel in cylinders, have to guarantee no spark), then run fuel pump test to pressurize line while holding rail over a pan. Should show leaking injector? Is this how you did it?

So did you also replace the o-ring and grommet? Manual says not reusable..

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@dgfreeze Thanks for the link! Exactly what I was thinking! got those in the amazon cart! Along with some hose clamp pliers for getting off some rusted cooling hose clamps