Port engine won't start [Solved and Fixed]

[dgfreeze]

The ECU has no idea of the status of the cleanout switch, the ECU only looks at the lanyard switch.

Makes sense, I would’ve been a little surprised if it had them all on one circuit.

 

[itsdgm]

Makes sense, I would’ve been a little surprised if it had them all on one circuit.

How does the ECU then kill the ignition if the hatch is opened?

 

[itsdgm]

Each cleanout hatch switch has two circuits. One kills the ignition, the other disables the starter. It’s possible that one switch has a bad circuit on the ignition kill side. Simple diagnosis is to swap plugs from one switch to the other.

 

[jetboater4life]

It's a simple test and I will try it out but being the ECU thinks the engine stop lanyard switch is on, I don't think this will change anything. @ripler doesn't think the clean out switch is monitored by the ECU.

 

[ripler]

How does the ECU then kill the ignition if the hatch is opened?

On the wiring diagram I posted the lanyard wiring comes back to the ECU by itself and does not daisy chain through any other switch (connector on the right). The other circuit (connector on the left) daisy chains through the clean out hatch switches, the neutral switch, and then the key switch then to the ECU. In the YDS @jetboater4life said that removing and replacing the lanyard did not change the status of the input which is why I suggested that the problem is with the connector on the left of the wiring diagram. The ECU is ultimately in charge.

Here's another diagram showing the wiring to the spark plug coils also.

 

[dgfreeze]

I haven’t had a need to delve into my YDS for these tests, so I’m shooting from the hip here, but I’m guessing the ECU gets the signal on different circuit, and I would’ve guessed the ECU also has those switches on its list of test functions?? Either way, it’s a super easy test to rule it out. In fact, I took an old faulty cleanout hatch switch I got from the previous owner, and made it a bypass connector by connecting the two wires that need continuity, and leaving disconnected the two wires that require an open circuit. If I ever get a switch failure, I can just plug it in, and it bypasses that switch.

 

[ripler]

It's a simple test and I will try it out but being the ECU thinks the engine stop lanyard switch is on, I don't think this will change anything. @ripler doesn't think the clean out switch is monitored by the ECU.

The cleanout switches and the neutral switch aren't directly wired into the ECU, but they are daisy chained through other switches and comes back into the ECU. That circuit is monitored by the ECU but if that circuit isn't complete the ECU does not know if the issue is with the clean out hatch switches of neutral switch because they are wired in series and then back to the ECU. Hope that makes sense.

 

[Sbrown]

I think you are right. But maybe this one is correct. Need to trace the highlighted wires I think.
View attachment 181095

Yes, I believe that is the correct schematic for the circuit you need. And I also believe you have the correct wires highlighted. You should be looking for an open circuit. I would start with a continuity test on each wire between the switch connector and the ecu connector. With both connectors unplugged, of course. Pay particular attention to any areas that coincide with areas you were doing mods. You may have just pulled a terminal loose.

 

[jetboater4life]

Solved. I tested the clean out hatch switches by having someone push down on the buttons while I cranked and port engine fired up. I'm off to use the boat for the weekend but I will post some more details later. Yahoo!!!! thanks to all for your help.

 

[jetboater4life]

So it was the clean out hatch switches after all. Apparently there are two different switches within each switch as someone earlier in the thread mentioned. I ruled out the cleanout switches early in my search because when I opened the hatch the engines would not turn over which was not the problem I was seeing. However I should have followed the Engine won't start debug list from the FAQ much more closely as it states right away that someone should be pushing the buttons while I start. It just wasn't the behavior I was seeing though which made it confusing. What I didn't expect is when the switch is partially depressed it will turn over but not get spark. I had someone push the buttons down at different levels and confirmed this to be true for both engines. I fixed the problem by removing the cleanout hatch and simply allowing more of the plastic switch to stick up by adjusting the nylon nuts on the top and bottom of the switch. The signal for this switch must be read by YDS and logically "OR"'d with the signal from the Engine off lanyard switch signal. That was also a bit confusing.

Once again thanks to everyone that commented in this thread. I really appreciate your time and effort in helping solve this problem. If the mods open it up for editing I'll make an update to the FAQ to better explain how the behavior of these switches can cause both a non-cranking engine, and an engine cranking but not getting spark.

 

[ripler]

So it was the clean out hatch switches after all. Apparently there are two different switches within each switch as someone earlier in the thread mentioned. I ruled out the cleanout switches early in my search because when I opened the hatch the engines would not turn over which was not the problem I was seeing. However I should have followed the Engine won't start debug list from the FAQ much more closely as it states right away that someone should be pushing the buttons while I start. It just wasn't the behavior I was seeing though which made it confusing. What I didn't expect is when the switch is partially depressed it will turn over but not get spark. I had someone push the buttons down at different levels and confirmed this to be true for both engines. I fixed the problem by removing the cleanout hatch and simply allowing more of the plastic switch to stick up by adjusting the nylon nuts on the top and bottom of the switch. The signal for this switch must be read by YDS and logically "OR"'d with the signal from the Engine off lanyard switch signal. That was also a bit confusing.

Once again thanks to everyone that commented in this thread. I really appreciate your time and effort in helping solve this problem. If the mods open it up for editing I'll make an update to the FAQ to better explain how the behavior of these switches can cause both a non-cranking engine, and an engine cranking but not getting spark.

Nice job. The YDS message sure did make this confusing.

 

[dgfreeze]

Glad to hear it's all taken care of, but to clarify, the YDS lumps the lanyard switch in with the cleanout port switches? At least the spark side of the cleanout switches...?

 

[jetboater4life]

Glad to hear it's all taken care of, but to clarify, the YDS lumps the lanyard switch in with the cleanout port switches? At least the spark side of the cleanout switches...?

Yes that appears to be the case. The software must combine the signals. Next time I have the YDS plugged in (fall). I'll check to see if there are any other switch settings that might look like cleanout hatch switch signals in YDS. Having two different types of behavior from the same switch is very strange. I can't think of any reason why the switch should allow the engine to turn over..... but that's how it works when it's partially depressed.

 

[the MfM]

On my older (pre-yds) boat the lanyard switch killed spark but allowed cranking. The rear hatch switches if open didn’t allow the engine to crank.

I‘m not sure if they also killed spark or it was wired through the key switch somehow to kill the engines when the hatch was opened while running.

It was easy to tell when the rear hatch was the problem vs the lanyard.

Good info @ripler

 

[jetboater4life]

On my older (pre-yds) boat the lanyard switch killed spark but allowed cranking. The rear hatch switches if open didn’t allow the engine to crank.

It was easy to tell when the rear hatch was the problem vs the lanyard.

Good info @ripler

The rear cleanout hatch switches can behave two ways depending on how far down they are pressed. I think this can be a bit tricky and requires a second person to do the testing.
With the hatch open, they prevent the engines from turning over. In my opinion that should be the only functionality, anything other than full pressed down should yield this result.
With the hatch partially closed the engines will turn over but not get any spark. This behavior is confusing to me. I don't know why it is allowed.

 

[dgfreeze]

Well, like you discovered, it’s two completely different switches in one. Since one side provides continuity, and the other removes continuity, it’s simply a matter of the two sides happen to activate at slightly different depression heights. I’m sure the only reason they’ve got both start and spark circuits involved is to simply add a second layer of safety to it. But it certainly is annoying that they don’t necessarily both activate at the same exact time. I don’t believe it’s by design (intentional) in any way that the activation heights are slightly different.

 

[Mike In Michigan]

I am calling one of the local shops tomorrow to see if I can get mine in for service. I did the spark test (failed) also but, not the ignition swap. I have had it for less than a month- only three outings! I wish I coild get the video clip to upload because it may help someone who has a clue know what is going on.

The battery was bad. I bought an Optima Bluetop, hooked it up, and it started right up!

 

[Tspeaks22]

Just had this very thing happen to me today.
The rear compartment which contains the cleanout plugs was not closed and latched on one side.
One engine started, the other wouldn’t even crank until I found the issue.

My right engine is starting perfectly, but the left isn't. However, It's turning over.

 

[jetboater4life]

My right engine is starting perfectly, but the left isn't. However, It's turning over.

Did you get a helper to push down the switches for you to see if that fixes the problem? Adjusting the switch heights is easy but you want to make sure that is the problem first.

 

[Tspeaks22]

Did you get a helper to push down the switches for you to see if that fixes the problem? Adjusting the switch heights is easy but you want to make sure that is the problem first.

Still nothing. I think it may be electrical. When we attempt to turn over the port side engine, there’s no connection to the dashboard. No lights flashing, tachometer readings etc