Student loan forgiveness....

[BlkGS]

The funding disappeared, I assume as part of the 2008 financial crisis. No idea where it stands today.

Administrators sound an alarm: Half of Tennessee high school graduates aren't going to college - I would assume current costs of tuition are playing a big role in this decline. I don't blame them at all. My advise to someone coming out of high school would be to maximize relationship building and get a job where you can learn skills, and move roles/companies every two years. Relationships > Formal Education when it comes to careers. (Minus some very specialized fields).

I was in school then. That funding didn't disappear. In fact, I had many friends who kept in school for a masters cuz there were no jobs, and it was the cheaper option.

 

[adrianp89]

I was in school then. That funding didn't disappear. In fact, I had many friends who kept in school for a masters cuz there were no jobs, and it was the cheaper option.

Something happened - my 75% dropped down to under 30%.

Quick search. A few things came up in that 2009-2012 range.

Cuts keep dimming Bright Futures college scholarship

DAYTONA BEACH -- Billy Schap worked hard through high school to get the state's Bright Futures Scholarship but has watched his award shrink since starting college last year. He's scrambling as fall…

www.news-journalonline.com

 

[djetok]

Where does the money come from?
Print it? We have been doing that a lot lately.

Borrow from China? Not going to happen

Steal it? Yeah, raiding social security is the most likely source. All that fica money that you paid in over your working career, that was promised to help you will go to pay for some kids college.

 

[2kwik4u]

It's not about it being hard so let's make it easier. It's about "you agreed to pay something so fucking do it".

Let's put it in perspective. Say you and I had the same loans, same careers, same everything. I lived in a cheap apartment and drove a beater and put all my money into paying off my loans early. You spent your money on fast cars, loose women, and enjoying your 20s. Now in our 30s, I'm paid off and doing my thing, you're bitching about still paying your loans. How can any rational person say that the person who sacrificed their youth to make the right financial choices should now pay taxes because you didn't? That's effectively asking taxpayers to subsidize your boat, house, women, and cars, the stuff that the money was spent on instead of the loans.

But I'm paying taxes too and have been paying them the whole time. So we are both out that cash, it's not like your tax dollars are suddenly disproportionately distributed and are being wasted in hookers and blow.

Are you pissed that cyclists use the road but don't pay gas taxes?

What about the GI bill? Isn't that paying off student loans for people that also had income and paid taxes at the same time you did?

It's my money just as much as it's your money that we're talking about using here. It's not as if I suddenly am not paying taxes here.

You also have to disassociate the abusers from the majority. Any system has a set of rules that are imperfect. Someone, somehow will find the away around them, or otherwise abuse them for nefarious purposes. That is typically NOT the majority, and are also typically sensationalized at large. So, YES the student loan forgiveness effort will have some abusers, however, by and large the benefactors will be just regular old people who are either currently paying or trying to pay their loans. We're not spending money on frivolous bullshit, we're paying them back, but it's going to take a decade or two to get it done. How many more people can buy a house, start a business, donate to charity, but a car, or otherwise live a relatively normal life if we turn off crushing debt, that they arguably weren't equipped to handle in the first place?

This same disassociation of abuser from majority needs to happen on a large level. Free healthcare, abortion, opioid addiction, welfare, and a myriad of other social programs are thwarted by conservative stalwarts that have the mindset of "you made your choice now deal with it".......that lack of sense of community amongst humans at large is the bigger problem to solve here. We HAVE to get past a punishment for bad choices mentality and look forward at a creation of a better place to exist in the future. Loan forgiveness is in that same vein.

 

[2kwik4u]

Where does the money come from?
Print it? We have been doing that a lot lately.

Borrow from China? Not going to happen

Steal it? Yeah, raiding social security is the most likely source. All that fica money that you paid in over your working career, that was promised to help you will go to pay for some kids college.

Cut the defense budget.

There found it. $5 says nobody notices.

 

[BlkGS]

Cut the defense budget.

There found it. $5 says nobody notices.

We are already woefully behind in defense spending. Our government needs to probably double the defense budget to modernize and retool for modern combat... Hopefully before we get embarrassed like Russia has.

 

[djetok]

Cut the defense budget.

There found it. $5 says nobody notices.

Congress would have to appropriate the money from the defense budget. Someone would notice I'm sure. There are a lot of war hawks out there and defense is typically a republican tenet. Which is why it would get raided from the social security gift bag.

 

[BlkGS]

But I'm paying taxes too and have been paying them the whole time. So we are both out that cash, it's not like your tax dollars are suddenly disproportionately distributed and are being wasted in hookers and blow.

Are you pissed that cyclists use the road but don't pay gas taxes?

What about the GI bill? Isn't that paying off student loans for people that also had income and paid taxes at the same time you did?

It's my money just as much as it's your money that we're talking about using here. It's not as if I suddenly am not paying taxes here.

You also have to disassociate the abusers from the majority. Any system has a set of rules that are imperfect. Someone, somehow will find the away around them, or otherwise abuse them for nefarious purposes. That is typically NOT the majority, and are also typically sensationalized at large. So, YES the student loan forgiveness effort will have some abusers, however, by and large the benefactors will be just regular old people who are either currently paying or trying to pay their loans. We're not spending money on frivolous bullshit, we're paying them back, but it's going to take a decade or two to get it done. How many more people can buy a house, start a business, donate to charity, but a car, or otherwise live a relatively normal life if we turn off crushing debt, that they arguably weren't equipped to handle in the first place?

This same disassociation of abuser from majority needs to happen on a large level. Free healthcare, abortion, opioid addiction, welfare, and a myriad of other social programs are thwarted by conservative stalwarts that have the mindset of "you made your choice now deal with it".......that lack of sense of community amongst humans at large is the bigger problem to solve here. We HAVE to get past a punishment for bad choices mentality and look forward at a creation of a better place to exist in the future. Loan forgiveness is in that same vein.

But what if the majority left ARE the abusers? Can you honestly say that it's not abuse to expect someone who sacrificed to pay their loans off to now get a slap in the face to see others have theirs wiped clean? I did that, I bought cars I could afford and paid my loans off fast. I didn't have my dream cars, I had some fun, but my priority was paying off my debt.

Here's my issue. The same people asking for student loan relief will take a 5 or 6 year loan on a 50 to 60k car. But somehow them taking 10 to 15 years to pay off 50.ton60k in student loans is impossible. It's not that these people can't afford to pay their loans, it's that they aren't willing to. They'd rather put that money into new trucks and nice houses and vacations and I phones. I'd we were gonna cancel some debt on a yearly basis for people making 35k or less, sure, let's help them out. But if you're a family making 100k and you expect to have a lifestyle subsidy, that's absurd. You don't need the money help, you need some sense help.

 

[BlkGS]

Congress would have to appropriate the money from the defense budget. Someone would notice I'm sure. There are a lot of war hawks out there and defense is typically a republican tenet. Which is why it would get raided from the social security gift bag.

Cut foreign aid and research grants to universities to pay for it.

 

[Ronnie]

GI Bill benefits are earned with blood, sweat and years of sacrifice. Not like the proposed loan forgiveness plans at all. Again, I’m not against making it easier for the current or next generation to get a college education, I just don’t think the tax payers should have to fund it. Sure we all pay taxes now or at least most of us do but how is loan foregivness fair to the person that also paid their student loans along with their taxes as opposed to the guy that only paid taxes?

I’m over $200k in / paid on student loans, do I get a refund or is the program only for current and / or future debtors? I’m pretty sure I know the answer And it’s not, “the check is in the mail”.

ImHo, if people don’t honor their contracts/pay back their debt our entire financial system is at risk.

So this question is worth repeating, where does helping others out stop? Where is the line?

for now, I’m just going to continue to pay what owe when it’s due.I’m not waiting for a government bail out nor would I ever blame my parents, teachers or professors for any debt I accrue or accrued after my 18th birthday.

 

[Maineiac]

I have no problem with the government using money for the betterment of society at large. We already do that through existing loan forgiveness programs tied to public service, or free schooling through the GI Bill, or any number of government programs that are targeted toward making our country better.

That being said…

There should be rules and means testing. AND it absolutely has to come with some reform to the educational system. If we don’t fix the cost of college then we’ll just be back in the same boat in a few years.

Maybe forgiveness can be tied to first degrees only, in demand majors, expansion of the public service for loan forgiveness programs, etc. I’m more OK giving it to people if the country is getting something back or the student has some skin in the game. I’m less OK giving it to people for some BS liberal arts degree or someone’s second degree that they didn’t “need”.

 

[Steve73]

Student loan interest is a part of how they pay for Obamacare. When federal student loans were introduced The government should have capped how much schools can increase costs each year. Tuition has ballooned well outpacing inflation (well prior to 2022 atleast). But you can see the conflict of interest - the government won’t cap what schools can charge bc the higher the loan amount the more the interest is they get. And then add in that you can buy votes by promising to occasionally forgive some of those loans. Jackpot.

 

[Rockit69]

I wasn't arguing for. I am just saying that argument is complete crap. There are tons of things we pay for that we will never once directly benefit from. You can make an argument the community benefits from student loan forgiveness. There are a ton of moving parts and it's just not a simple no or yes. Lots of benefits and lots of drawbacks.

I disagree, government should help with social services for people down on their luck and need help ie: welfare for the mother left with 3 kids and a deadbeat dad, drug addiction etc.. College is a premium in life and not a social service!

 

[2kwik4u]

College is a premium in life and not a social service!

Why shouldn't it be a social service? We have public schools through 12th grade. Why not continue that through 16th grade?

Invest in education or jails right?

 

[Rockit69]

Why shouldn't it be a social service? We have public schools through 12th grade. Why not continue that through 16th grade?

Invest in education or jails right?

Try a community college, if you want to further your education, its on your dime. Most people in jail did not graduate high school, Thanks for playing!

What Is The Amount Of High School Graduates In Prison? – Highschool Cube

www.highschoolcube.com

 

[2kwik4u]

Try a community college, if you want to further your education, its on your dime.

Why?

Honest question, not being a dick.

Do you think college is a non value add for society? Do you think it doesn't have a precedent (it's always been that way)? Is it because you think a high school education is enough to cover societies need? Is it because you didn't have that benefit and you think others will be "just fine without it" also?

To answer my own question, so you can see where I stand; high school isn't enough for society at large. We need specialized and highly educated people for society to function. Not just doctors, lawyers, and engineers. We need skilled tradesmen, mechanics, service techs, and pilots. We also have to fill those positions that don't require little to no additional specialization like cashier's, bus drivers, and laborers. Funding higher education, as an option, publicly fills those needs and is a better fit than the current capitalist for profit system.

For my family, the boys will go to some flavor of secondary education. Want to be a pipe fitter? Good, go join the local apprenticeship program. Veterinarian? Sweet, go find the right college. Truck driver? Nice, go find the local CDL training facility. Find the thing you want to do, and go be the expert in that field. If they get a few years into it and realize that was a bad choice, then lather, rinse, repeat.

I'm 100% OK with society (and my tax dollars) buying the first one. Want to pivot, sure that's on you as a person, but the first one, that's a legit value add to society as a whole and worth the money.

 

[BlkGS]

Why shouldn't it be a social service? We have public schools through 12th grade. Why not continue that through 16th grade?

Invest in education or jails right?

Because it's unnecessary. People get get educations in value add things, doctors, lawyers, engineers, accountants, etc all are able to pay their loans off easily. If they don't, it's by choice. Skilled trades go to a community College or trade school or apprenticeship that is either way cheaper, or they get paid to do it.

 

[CaptRedbeard]

Because it's unnecessary. People get get educations in value add things, doctors, lawyers, engineers, accountants, etc all are able to pay their loans off easily. If they don't, it's by choice. Skilled trades go to a community College or trade school or apprenticeship that is either way cheaper, or they get paid to do it.

The general consensus amongst those who believe college should be paid for by the government is that it should be a maximum 4 year local state or community college. Nobody is arguing for free college for masters and doctorate degrees.

 

[BlkGS]

The general consensus amongst those who believe college should be paid for by the government is that it should be a maximum 4 year local state or community college. Nobody is arguing for free college for masters and doctorate degrees.

My point still stands. Any degree that adds value can be paid for by its income without issue.

 

[djetok]

Why shouldn't it be a social service? We have public schools through 12th grade. Why not continue that through 16th grade?

Invest in education or jails right?

Do some research on cuba and you will see. Did you know a Dr in cuba is paid less than 100 dollars per month. Cuba has free education.