Student loan forgiveness....

[Rockit69]

The government paying off student debt is crossing way over the line of what a sound government was meant for. I could maybe get on board with the tax payers dollars helping out with the interest on these loans, as in knocking them down to a zero profit for the lenders, but wiping them out, no.

Im all for funding community colleges as an extension to our education system. The political promises of a free college education at these money grab universities is an over reaching drain on our economy. There will always be the cash cows sucking off the government nipple over excessively whether its education, healthcare, counciling etc.... Lets keep the education and social services, post adulthood, private, and if they dont do a satisfying job, move on to the next.

Our Government has proven for as long as they have been around that they do a poor job of managing money and if young adults make poor decisions, compounding it by the government bailout is not the answer.

 

[Rumbo]

@CaptRedbeard, stimulating the economy by forgiving student debt is only going to exacerbate the already record inflation as others have already said. The fed, under both the current administration and prior administration to be fair, has pumped trillions into the market. Too much money chasing too few goods will always devalue currency (leaving fuel pricing out of this for the sake of the argument). So how will essentially adding another 1 trillion plus stimulation help anyone? And it’s always the lower income earners who are the hardest hit by inflation. The wealthy aren’t harmed by it, they have assets that inflate with the devaluing of the dollar, the low income workers do not. This would be yet another federal program that would result in the growth the so called “wealth gap” which is the opposite of what you state you want to happen. Giving money away is not compassion, there’s always repercussions to it.

 

[mwalker4]

I don’t even know how to respond to this. You want free college paid for by the government??? Great. Go serve your country for a few years. You don’t have to be a rifleman on the front line, there’s all sorts of jobs out there. You want to stimulate the economy? Don’t give money away, but something. Like new roads, bridges, community centers and parks that the people will use and enjoy. Basically how they came out of the Great Depression.

You appear to be objecting to my post, but I'm not sure why. I don't want free college and I did serve my country to get free college. I am assuming a misunderstanding.

 

[mwalker4]

I didn’t say “if you don’t agree with me you’re a sociopath.” Maybe I didn’t word that originally clearly but I stand by my statement. I’m sure everybody here would attempt to help somebody in distress. It’s natural human instinct. That’s all I was getting at. Nothing to do with student loan forgiveness or UBI, just basic humanity. I’m sure everybody here feels at least slightly inclined to help people around them (friends, family, neighbors, etc).

Further, maybe it didn’t come across clearly that I was just trying to analyze the reason that some people are in favor of student loan forgiveness and give an alternative that other people believe would be more effective and fair than student loan forgiveness. Just trying to continue the discussion, but I’ll leave it at that. No hard feelings meant.

Gotcha, sorry I misunderstood.

 

[adrianp89]

The government paying off student debt is crossing way over the line of what a sound government was meant for. I could maybe get on board with the tax payers dollars helping out with the interest on these loans, as in knocking them down to a zero profit for the lenders, but wiping them out, no.

Im all for funding community colleges as an extension to our education system. The political promises of a free college education at these money grab universities is an over reaching drain on our economy. There will always be the cash cows sucking off the government nipple over excessively whether its education, healthcare, counciling etc.... Lets keep the education and social services, post adulthood, private, and if they dont do a satisfying job, move on to the next.

Our Government has proven for as long as they have been around that they do a poor job of managing money and if young adults make poor decisions, compounding it by the government bailout is not the answer.

I think this a good solution. Wipe out the interest fees, reduce funding to these schools to cover the costs. But this should be done once they are out of the game. Let the schools do their own thing. Banks quickly realized student loans were not a good idea and got out. The schools need to be 100% responsible. The price of school has skyrocketed because of the "free money". Let these schools compete against each other. It will drive costs and interest rates down.

With that being said I have a decent amount of student loan debt. If they want to pay it off.... no complaints here.

 

[jamesk]

This reminds me of the housing bailout for people upside down on their mortgages. If I pay cash for my $500k house and you mortgage your $500k house and the value goes to $250k.....if I sell my house, I lose $250k......but because your house is worth less than your mortgage you should not have to be responsible for the difference? We have a rental home, 5 years ago I showed it to a couple that made over $300k/yr, they told me their credit was bad because they had to short sell their home and default on the mortgage because it was worth less than what they owed. To be clear, they acknowledged that they had the means to pay it off but felt they where not responsible to do so.
I did not say it to them but what happens if you rent my house and later you decide you don't feel you need to pay the rent any longer because you feel the price is too high?

Someone has to pay for all this, is it fair for the family who does not send their kids to college? Indirectly they are paying for someone else to go to school.
Is there going to be some type of "needs" based forgiveness?
Does the person who owes $50k and makes $250k/yr get the same treatment as the person owing $50K and works a $50k/yr job?
Just needs to be fair to everyone.

 

[Beachbummer]

..Just needs to be fair to everyone...

That is the crux of the problem. life is NOT fair, and even when we aim to create it, fair means different things to different people. This is the root of the governance problem. How do we govern with "Fair" rules? (and not become the tyranny of the majority either. 6 people deciding what do do with the wealth of 10 is not thought of as "Fair" to the 4 excluded from the discussion.)

 

[adrianp89]

Someone has to pay for all this, is it fair for the family who does not send their kids to college? Indirectly they are paying for someone else to go to school.

This is the worst argument for against. We pay for a lot of things we will never see a return on. Welfare, Disability, Medicare, Social Security are just some of the high level ones. We indirectly pay for firefighters, yet I have never had a fire. Examples go on for a while.

 

[Beachbummer]

Government Expenditure can be broken into 3
Benefit available to all interested (not Means-Tested benefit): Parks, Police, Roads, Firefighters, etc, etc.
Only for those that have a need (Means-Tested benefit): Medicaid, Food Stamps, Free/Subsidized Lunch, Unemployment Benefit
Pay to use: Medicare, Passports, Toll Roads, Permits.

You will see that means-tested benefits are the harder ones to sell as "fair" to those not receiving them. a "Public good" can be attributed to some to make them more palatable. (We don't want children or Pregnant Mom to starve, fine, I see why that's a worthy expense)

 

[djetok]

This is the worst argument for against. We pay for a lot of things we will never see a return on. Welfare, Disability, Medicare, Social Security are just some of the high level ones. We indirectly pay for firefighters, yet I have never had a fire. Examples go on for a while.

wow, just wow. So I should get 150k back for all the college I paid for? Firefighters provide a service to the entire community. Am I guaranteed welfare, social security and medicare. I am not, and most of the programs that we paid in to for years will not be available to us. But sure lets pay for something else out of social security.

 

[CanTex]

Student loan forgiveness without any type of student loan reform should be a non-starter - without reform we will move toward a permanent system of loan forgiveness.

Reforms to current student loan program:
* Loan amount has to be connected to repayment ability - will live in a capitalist society, not all degree's are valued the same upon graduation.
* Remove personal bankruptcy clause - change bankruptcy law so student loan debt will stay on credit for 14 years
* Student loan year over year can only increase at rate of inflation, not rate set by universities (meaning the rate at which they increase tuition and student fees)

 

[Ronnie]

I don’t object to making things easier for current or future generations to get a college education but don’t think that I as a tax payer should have to pay for it (I.e., their debts which they willing took on most of the time after they turned 18).

maybe I’m old school, but I believe that people, especially adults should pay the bills that they accrue, that it is the honorable thing to do. Some would argue that a college education is a right not a privilege. I would say in either case that an expensive college education is a privilege not a right. If you cannot afford to go to or to pay back an Ivy League school education, don’t apply. If you can’t afford to go away for school, stay close with your parents and / or go to community college for as long as you can. Don’t go out and take on $30k in debt for several years if you are getting into a career where the pay is traditionally low. Finally remember that you don’t need a college education to make a good salary. See the attached pic.

 

[adrianp89]

wow, just wow. So I should get 150k back for all the college I paid for? Firefighters provide a service to the entire community. Am I guaranteed welfare, social security and medicare. I am not, and most of the programs that we paid in to for years will not be available to us. But sure lets pay for something else out of social security.

I wasn't arguing for. I am just saying that argument is complete crap. There are tons of things we pay for that we will never once directly benefit from. You can make an argument the community benefits from student loan forgiveness. There are a ton of moving parts and it's just not a simple no or yes. Lots of benefits and lots of drawbacks.

 

[Beachbummer]

....You can make an argument the community benefits from student loan forgiveness. There are a ton of moving parts and it's just not a simple no or yes. Lots of benefits...

You can, but nobody has yet that I can tell. Do you want to take a crack at it and make an argument on the community benefits, and how they outweigh taxpayers or investors losing the expected income they would otherwise receive?

 

[adrianp89]

I don’t object to making things easier for current or future generations to get a college education but don’t think that I as a tax payer should have to pay for it (I.e., their debts which they willing took on most of the time after they turned 18).

maybe I’m old school, but I believe that people, especially adults should pay the bills that they accrue, that it is the honorable thing to do. Some would argue that a college education is a right not a privilege. I would say in either case that an expensive college education is a privilege not a right. If you cannot afford to go to or to pay back an Ivy League school education, don’t apply. If you can’t afford to go away for school, stay close with your parents and / or go to community college for as long as you can. Don’t go out and take on $30k in debt for several years if you are getting into a career where the pay is traditionally low. Finally remember that you don’t need a college education to make a good salary. See the attached pic.

View attachment 178746

I literally did everything you said and still had a significant amount of student loan debt. My scholarship was supposed to be 75%. It got reduced significantly by years 3/4. I lived at home until 24. Did community college for first two years to save money. For my last two years I went to the local university (USFSP). I worked two jobs, both which had horrible pay... both jobs were just enough to get by. I lived with parents but that was the only support I had. I have an undergrad degree in Economics. Couldn't find a job to save my life... my career started because my wife worked with someone who was engaged to a person looking to start up a team and he took a chance on me.... that was 2 years after I graduated.

Every college education is expensive - there is no way around that. Finding 30 grand for an 18 year old is very difficult. It might be easier now that pay is higher but in the early 2010s it was hard to find something more than $7/$8 hour.

 

[adrianp89]

You can, but nobody has yet that I can tell. Do you want to take a crack at it and make an argument on the community benefits, and how they outweigh taxpayers or investors losing the expected income they would otherwise receive?

Not really LOL - I am sure there are studies out there. I could come up with several scenarios, not data backed though..... I have seen some that describe how it could benefit minority communities. A direct effect of improving life in minority communities is less crime. Less crime = less tax payer money. I would expect to see benefits in my area just from reduced expenses. I would think tourism would increase (and more boat rentals for me). My company would also benefit from some people using that saved monthly expense on buying more cars. Quite simply - that money going to the govt now will end up going into economy. Let's be real - its not going to be saved and sit in a bank account.

 

[Ronnie]

I literally did everything you said and still had a significant amount of student loan debt. My scholarship was supposed to be 75%. It got reduced significantly by years 3/4. I lived at home until 24. Did community college for first two years to save money. For my last two years I went to the local university (USFSP). I worked two jobs, both which had horrible pay... both jobs were just enough to get by. I lived with parents but that was the only support I had. I have an undergrad degree in Economics. Couldn't find a job to save my life... my career started because my wife worked with someone who was engaged to a person looking to start up a team and he took a chance on me.... that was 2 years after I graduated.

Every college education is expensive - there is no way around that. Finding 30 grand for an 18 year old is very difficult. It might be easier now that pay is higher but in the early 2010s it was hard to find something more than $7/$8 hour.

I read, understood and agree with your statement. You mitigated the costs where you could but still ended up in debt. Not uncommon at all. However, that doesn’t mean that the average tax payer should have to pay the debt you accrued even if it is a relatively low amount of money.

I had to defer two years before I found a real job that would allow me to pay my student loan debt. In the mean time I and many of my peers took on all the odd jobs we could just to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table.

I know a guy who studied film at Harvard,got a degree and came out over $240k in debt. Last I heard he was working as a laborer for his bothers carpentry / cabinet company. I’m definitely not down with getting his debt forgiven if I have to pick up any part of the cost as a taxpayer. I know another Women who dropped out of med school after her second year. It took 10 years before she was declared permanently disabled so she could discharge her debt in bankruptcy. During that time she was hobbled by the debt.

people seem to forget that a college degree does not guarantee a high income, it is, has been and always will be a gamble, but only a fool keeps adding money to a loosing hand. For instance getting a degree in film? Completing two years or a four year program? Continuing on in college even though they are struggling with the the basic (100) level courses.

finally a few quotes come to mind:
Money is not the root of all evil, the lack of it is.
Money is a beautiful thing, when you have it.
Everything is expensive when you are broke.

 

[adrianp89]

I agree with all of the above. More moving parts to a tricky subject.

I tend to not want to forgive people who dropped out. My mind instantly goes to quitter. But again there are so many moving parts though - maybe they dropped out because they had to become a primary care giver for an elderly parent or suffered a life altering event. Same scenario to the guy who went to harvard for film. I instantly think he's an idiot but I don't really know. I know kids in high-school that went out to LA and made it in film just by winging it.

What I find most entertaining is that this subject really pisses some people off - but those same people didn't really care when the government used $700 billion to bail out the banks in 2008..... accounting for inflation this cost is almost identical to a full forgiveness program.

 

[Beachbummer]

Banks paid back, with interest, And many were forced to take the money whether they wanted it or not. May want to look deeper into that one before you are willing to take the same deal the banks got.

 

[crazy4life]

I agree with all of the above. More moving parts to a tricky subject.

I tend to not want to forgive people who dropped out. My mind instantly goes to quitter. But again there are so many moving parts though - maybe they dropped out because they had to become a primary care giver for an elderly parent or suffered a life altering event. Same scenario to the guy who went to harvard for film. I instantly think he's an idiot but I don't really know. I know kids in high-school that went out to LA and made it in film just by winging it.

What I find most entertaining is that this subject really pisses some people off - but those same people didn't really care when the government used $700 billion to bail out the banks in 2008..... accounting for inflation this cost is almost identical to a full forgiveness program.

Your debt. Your decision to acquire the debt. Twisting yourself into pretzels in coming up with logic for other people to pay for it is pretty comical. Please give me your address and I will send my mortgage over. Using your own logic you should not have a problem paying it.